Devils team discussion (news, notes and speculation) - 2023 offseason part II

[Guadana]

I smell a breakout for Holtz, edgwork looks much improved.

He isn’t Bratt yet, but he is working in the right direction. Hope he will improve his first steps too. Even if he can’t develop iq for a higher level of faster speed of the game, he still can be helpful player on the ice, even as a complimentary scoring winger.

 

[Hischier and Hughes]

I smell a breakout for Holtz, edgwork looks much improved.

while you were watching his edges.. i was busy noticing he didnt score a goal!

what kind of sniper cant even score in training!!

 

[SteveCangialosi123]

He isn’t Bratt yet, but he is working in the right direction. Hope he will improve his first steps too. Even if he can’t develop iq for a higher level of faster speed of the game, he still can be helpful player on the ice, even as a complimentary scoring winger.

He needs to just follow Toffoli around and copy everything he does.

 

[My3Sons]

It’s not really fair to evaluate Luke’s defense yet. He just didn’t have to play all that much of it in college. He’d tend to retreat on defense to the front of the net and wait for the opponent to lose the puck and then counterattack. His team didn’t exactly play a defense first system and he wasn’t asked to stay home. My only criticism of his defensive play was that he looked to half ass it at times on puck retrieval. He usually got away with it but a few times it led to him getting caught behind the net. It’s an easy fix for him if he pays attention. Im not sure he will ever be Marino in his own zone but that’s the sort of defense he can strive towards.

 

[Cheddabombs]

I smell a breakout for Holtz, edgwork looks much improved.

I'm sold

 

[StevenToddIves]

It’s not really fair to evaluate Luke’s defense yet. He just didn’t have to play all that much of it in college. He’d tend to retreat on defense to the front of the net and wait for the opponent to lose the puck and then counterattack. His team didn’t exactly play a defense first system and he wasn’t asked to stay home. My only criticism of his defensive play was that he looked to half ass it at times on puck retrieval. He usually got away with it but a few times it led to him getting caught behind the net. It’s an easy fix for him if he pays attention. Im not sure he will ever be Marino in his own zone but that’s the sort of defense he can strive towards.

Luke Hughes' defense made great strides this year in my opinion.

Though in his freshman season at University of Michigan, Hughes' defense was, ah, less-than-stellar, I felt he was "adequate" in his sophomore season. Why am I not impatient about it? Because this roughly mirrors the progression of the current NHLer whom Luke Hughes plays the most reminiscent style to at the most reminiscent talent-level -- Cale Makar.

In the end, how good Luke Hughes becomes is greatly up to Luke Hughes. This goes especially on the defensive side of the puck where, as you stated, the effort has never been a given. But it's certainly improved, and that's very encouraging.

 

[Devs3cups]

Luke Hughes' defense made great strides this year in my opinion.

Though in his freshman season at University of Michigan, Hughes' defense was, ah, less-than-stellar, I felt he was "adequate" in his sophomore season. Why am I not impatient about it? Because this roughly mirrors the progression of the current NHLer whom Luke Hughes plays the most reminiscent style to at the most reminiscent talent-level -- Cale Makar.

In the end, how good Luke Hughes becomes is greatly up to Luke Hughes. This goes especially on the defensive side of the puck where, as you stated, the effort has never been a given. But it's certainly improved, and that's very encouraging.

His short stint with us was also very encouraging imo. He wasn’t just running around out there. Seemed way more calculated in his own end. The offense was as advertised, which is awesome.

 

[Hisch13r]

He needs to just follow Toffoli around and copy everything he does.

We need to go full Get Out on the 2. Big difference between the 2 is how they think the game

 

[JimEIV]

I'm not sure that I want to nitpick Luke Hughes freshman year defense as someone who just turn 18 years old entering Michigan....Hell, the kid is still 19 years old for another 13 days.

But I certainly don't believe effort is an issue. Lack of experience leads to indecisiveness which often looks like a lack of effort. If that kid was a week older he'd been a 2022 prospect as opposed to 21...had he been in Junior nobody would even talk about his defense while he was putting up 70+ points while dominating children at both ends of the ice....as opposed to being one of the youngest freshmen in the NCAA in 2021...A league that is loaded with 24 year olds.

I'm sure growing pains are going to be a thing for him but Luke has too much talent not figure it out.

 

[Devs3cups]

 

[Hisch13r]

I'm not sure that I want to nitpick Luke Hughes freshman year defense as someone who just turn 18 years old entering Michigan....Hell, the kid is still 19 years old for another 13 days.

But I certainly don't believe effort is an issue. Lack of experience leads to indecisiveness which often looks like a lack of effort. If that kid was a week older he'd been a 2022 prospect as opposed to 21...had he been in Junior nobody would even talk about his defense while he was putting up 70+ points while dominating children at both ends of the ice....as opposed to being one of the youngest freshmen in the NCAA in 2021...A league that is loaded with 24 year olds.

I'm sure growing pains are going to be a thing for him but Luke has too much talent not figure it out.

Idk I do think there was lack of effort at times in Michigan. He just looked more engaged and conscious about his decisions at the NHL level than he did at Michigan which leads me to believe he was playing down to the NCAA competition

 

[Antiillafire]

Nemec likely to be released for WJC even if he’s in the lineup for the team and playing well like Guenther was last year in Arizona and was released or no? Slovakia’s U20 team was just in a tournament and the defense without Nemec is going to have a very rough go.

 

[Hisch13r]

Nemec likely to be released for WJC even if he’s in the lineup for the team and playing well like Guenther was last year in Arizona and was released or no? Slovakia’s U20 team was just in a tournament and the defense without Nemec is going to have a very rough go.

He's likely going to be back in the AHL again so I imagine they release him. If one the RD is hurt before the WJC though and Nemec is brought up then probably not.

 

[Triumph]

Nemec likely to be released for WJC even if he’s in the lineup for the team and playing well like Guenther was last year in Arizona and was released or no? Slovakia’s U20 team was just in a tournament and the defense without Nemec is going to have a very rough go.

I'd be surprised. Whether or not he's actually on the Devils at the time, I think he will be close enough to the NHL team that they won't want him to go to that tournament. Pretty rare for a D+2 drafted that high to play in the WJCs.

 

[Hockey Sports Fan]

I agree that it’s rare but i think they let Nemec play in the WJCs if he doesn’t make the team out of camp. They want him playing big minutes in big games and there’s gonna be 5 NHL dmen ahead of him that can play the right side.

 

[Emperoreddy]

 

[Zippy316]

I'd be surprised. Whether or not he's actually on the Devils at the time, I think he will be close enough to the NHL team that they won't want him to go to that tournament. Pretty rare for a D+2 drafted that high to play in the WJCs.

I’d say he ends up going unless the Devils hit an injury bug at some point. Looking at Utica schedule too, they play one game on a weekend on Dec 23, again Dec 27, 29, & 30 and then not until Jan 5 & 7.

He could theoretically leave sometime before the 23rd and join Slovakia. At the WJC, he likely plays 4/5 games, Slovakia is knocked out early in group stages or QF, and he’d be back with Utica Jan 7 or Jan 10 the latest. He’s probably play the same amount of WJC games he would in Utica.

The main reason I could see the Devils being hesitant is it being in Sweden. I think NA would be an easy yes.

 

[Hockey Sports Fan]

He can beat any player wide just by turning

this took me until the second time reading it but I got it

 

[Triumph]

I’d say he ends up going unless the Devils hit an injury bug at some point. Looking at Utica schedule too, they play one game on a weekend on Dec 23, again Dec 27, 29, & 30 and then not until Jan 5 & 7.

He could theoretically leave sometime before the 23rd and join Slovakia. At the WJC, he likely plays 4/5 games, Slovakia is knocked out early in group stages or QF, and he’d be back with Utica Jan 7 or Jan 10 the latest. He’s probably play the same amount of WJC games he would in Utica.

The main reason I could see the Devils being hesitant is it being in Sweden. I think NA would be an easy yes.

That's funny because I looked it up and thought it was in Canada this year but that must've been last year's tournament - always confusing because the tournament straddles the year.

I do think it being in Europe does make it that much more difficult. It probably means a day of buffer on either side.

 

[Devs3cups]

 

[HBK27]

Pronman's U23 Rankings:

https://theathletic.com/4805966/2023/08/28/nhl-players-prospects-under-23-connor-bedard/

Devils:

Tier 2 - Elite NHL Player
2. Jack Hughes

Tier 3 - Bubble elite NHL player and NHL All-Star
9. Luke Hughes

Tier 6 - Top of the lineup player
28. Dawson Mercer

Tier 7 - Bubble top and middle of the lineup player
50. Simon Nemec

Tier 8 - Middle of the lineup player
119. Alex Holtz
124. Josh Filmon
132. Nolan Foote
148. Arseni Gritsyuk

Jiricek at #20 vs. Nemec at #50 seems like quite the gap - not sure how Pronman got there.

Someone in the comments also posted the player count by team:

 

[DevilsHughes86]

Pronman's U23 Rankings:

https://theathletic.com/4805966/2023/08/28/nhl-players-prospects-under-23-connor-bedard/

Devils:

Tier 2 - Elite NHL Player
2. Jack Hughes

Tier 3 - Bubble elite NHL player and NHL All-Star
9. Luke Hughes

Tier 6 - Top of the lineup player
28. Dawson Mercer

Tier 7 - Bubble top and middle of the lineup player
50. Simon Nemec

Tier 8 - Middle of the lineup player
119. Alex Holtz
124. Josh Filmon
132. Nolan Foote
148. Arseni Gritsyuk

Jiricek at #20 vs. Nemec at #50 seems like quite the gap - not sure how Pronman got there.

Someone in the comments also posted the player count by team:

View attachment 739320

Time to rebuild!!!

 

[guitarguyvic]

I don’t like the idea of giving up assets for one year of Helleybuck. I don’t care how good his stats look, expecting a goalie to come in and make an immediate positive impact playing behind a brand new team with a different system than what he’s been used to for years…I would not be optimistic about that working out in the short term. This just screams “looks good on paper but fails in reality”.

 

[Devs3cups]

Pronman's U23 Rankings:
Jiricek at #20 vs. Nemec at #50 seems like quite the gap - not sure how Pronman got there.

Yeah, that’s just off lol.

Even his take on his skating is off. Nemec isn’t an average skater by any means. Funny though, Pronman seems to not like Nemec a lot, but Wheeler absolutely loves him (had him at #4 in his top 50 NHL prospects list back in February, 3rd best D-man).

Jack and Luke’s skating not being “elite” is also pretty funny lol.

Edit: Yeah, looking further at this list, I think I’m just going to disregard it. It just looks very bad and I don’t usually hate any lists lol. Laf only 1 spot behind Mercer? Korchinski in front of Jarvis/Johnson? Cooley behind Lundell (who I really like)? Just confusing to me lol, especially since he says this has nothing to do with how the players are right now, it’s, and I quote, “who I think will have the best pro careers”.

 

[AfroThunder396]

Interesting to see how bullish Pronman is on the top of the 2023 draft class. Three of his top-5 were taken this June. Bedard in tier of his own, ahead of the dude who just scored 99 points. Not sure I totally agree, but whatever.

I appreciate and respect the work Pronman does even if I don't always agree with it. But it's important to remember that Pronman's opinion is a data point of n = 1. Lists like these are very fluid and open to interpretation, and I don't see any point in getting bent out of shape over what amounts to informed speculation. No matter who you are or what you say, people will get pissed and try to trash your opinion.