Devils team discussion (news, notes and speculation) - 2023 offseason part II

[Blender]

That's what it means to be a contender in a cap league.

You pay all your top guys what they are worth and it caps you out, so you got to rely on your drafting and smart budget signings to do the rest.

More established depth would be great, but we can't afford it, and honestly it's something every other major contender is facing.

To add to this as well, you need ELCs who over perform their contract value, which comes from your drafting and development. Ideally you have a peak year or two where you have multiple depth players over performing their ELCs.

 

[Hischier and Hughes]

This is Holtz’s year I can feel it.

Yeah, hes gonna kill it in Winnipeg or Utica

Sorry - but if you think Holtz is getting any sort of meaningful time on our best chance at a Cup for the next few years, you clearly havent been following Fitzgerald's moves closely

About a 1% chance Holtz gets top-6 minutes and he serves no purpose on a third line as a purely-offense player. The 1% being hes gone super saiyan since last year and is a top-6 NHL player today with a well-rounded game ... very very unlikely

He'll go back for Hellebyuck or cook more in Utica until hes moved for a solid third line contract.

He missed the bus by about a year or two - not his fault, we just ended up too good too soon. His shot was acquired to play with Jack and we just had our best regular season ever and signed a 40+ goal scorer to eight years - his need has dwindled to that of a surplus

That's what it means to be a contender in a cap league.

You pay all your top guys what they are worth and it caps you out, so you got to rely on your drafting and smart budget signings to do the rest.

More established depth would be great, but we can't afford it, and honestly it's something every other major contender is facing.

This would be true if it wasnt for the rising cap

The Devils are in a perfect storm of cap situations not which has been seen ever in hockey. Their cap struggles coincidentally line up with a 4-5+m cap increase each season over five or more years

The Devils will only not win multiple Cups in the next decade if injuries or extremely poor managing get in the way; and Im pretty damn sure its not the latter so we should pray its not the former

 

[Hischier and Hughes]

Were past the hoarding phase and thats gonna be a tough pill for some to swallow (especially those who think theyre smarter than everyone else and can get all the best talent without ever giving up)

Holtz is inconsequential to the future success of this team and will be seen as such, as will every other prospect this team has outside of Nemec and Casey

Heck, the only reason Casey isnt included is because his coming-of will line perfectly with the end of Marino's contract. He will play two more seasons in Michigan than one more in Utica, eventually replacing Hamilton's old ass in due time thereafter

The only important prospexts going forward are necessary depth ELCs, hence the picks of late have been Stillmans, Hameenahos, Squires, Vilens, etc.

The next top-6 prospect thatll come up will be Gritsyuk in a few years when Palat or Tofolli need replacing

 

[Devs3cups]

Yeah, hes gonna kill it in Winnipeg or Utica

Sorry - but if you think Holtz is getting any sort of meaningful time on our best chance at a Cup for the next few years, you clearly havent been following Fitzgerald's moves closely

About a 1% chance Holtz gets top-6 minutes and he serves no purpose on a third line as a purely-offense player. The 1% being hes gone super saiyan since last year and is a top-6 NHL player today with a well-rounded game ... very very unlikely

He'll go back for Hellebyuck or cook more in Utica until hes moved for a solid third line contract.

He missed the bus by about a year or two - not his fault, we just ended up too good too soon. His shot was acquired to play with Jack and we just had our best regular season ever and signed a 40+ goal scorer to eight years - his need has dwindled to that of a surplus


This would be true if it wasnt for the rising cap

The Devils are in a perfect storm of cap situations not which has been seen ever in hockey. Their cap struggles coincidentally line up with a 4-5+m cap increase each season over five or more years

The Devils will only not win multiple Cups in the next decade if injuries or extremely poor managing get in the way; and Im pretty damn sure its not the latter so we should pray its not the former

I’d agree with Holtz and the Top-6, but I could see him have success there with Palat and Haula. 2 hard nosed guys with some skill to get him the puck.

 

[PizzaAndPucks]

People thinking the ship has sailed with Holtz are ridiculous. If he plays well he is going to get hit shot and going to get opportunities. Injuries happen and spots will open up.

 

[Hischier and Hughes]

I’d agree with Holtz and the Top-6, but I could see him have success there with Palat and Haula. 2 hard nosed guys with some skill to get him the puck.

Holtz on a matchup line? That doesnt sound like something a top-3 contender does

Not to mention Holtz has yet to prove he has anything resembling a net neutral game away from the puck; doubt it all comes to fruition in this season at the age of 22

Bad Goalie has said it himself and nobody here watches more Utica than him

Its writing-on-the-wall at this point and Fitz has made that very clear by talking up guys like Foote Casey Filmon and Vilen and never once mentioning Holtz outside 'we did him wrong' (aka he doesnt have a spot and he knows it)

 

[NJDevs26]

The problem with Holtz is he's THIS administration's top pick, they aren't giving him up on him as easy as say, Pavel Zacha.

 

[Hisch13r]

I’d agree with Holtz and the Top-6, but I could see him have success there with Palat and Haula. 2 hard nosed guys with some skill to get him the puck.

I’d say if he can’t have some success on a 3rd line facing weaker competition while playing with Palat and Haula then he’s just not good. Like obviously he’ll be at his most successful in the top 6 with like Bratt and Jack but a 3rd line role with Palat and Haula is enough for him to have success if he’s actually good. If he can’t produce in that type of role then he’s no different than say Yegor who needed to be force fed a top 6 role to be productive (granted he was pretty productive in that role) and if he didn’t have that then he couldn’t produce.

Ideally he’s really good and you can toss him with Jack. I love the opportunities that presents to spread out the talent. You could move Bratt and Toffoli down to the 3rd line and they could play with Haula. Bratt-Toffoli would crush that competition together. Then I’d hope that Palat can give you enough of what Tatar did with Nico-Mercer as one of the best lines in the league. Roll Meier with Jack-Holtz. You have at least one elite player on each top 9 line and transition wizards on each as well

The problem with Holtz is he's THIS administration's top pick, they aren't giving him up on him as easy as say, Pavel Zacha.

And because he’s still only 21. Zacha had 2 and a half seasons under Fitz as GM and he was 25. Very different

 

[Hisch13r]

I hear you, but if we lose Hamilton or Marino for an extended period of time then the devils are rolling out luke, nemec, bahl and Miller (in a top 4 role). If siegs goes down then we’re seeing a LOT of smith minutes.

Maybe it’s fine, if the young guys kill it, but to me that’s way riskier than having a so-so 3rd line for a while while the top 6 remains super strong. Easy to forget Bahl spent a large chunk of last year in the wilderness because he finished so strong.

I’m a big fan of having 3 great lines so I’m probably more concerned with that than most. Bahl could definitely blow up in our face but I like the progression and think maybe he could handle a top 4 role for a bit if needed. With Nemec I really think be at least like halfway through the year he’ll be able to handle a top 4 role and even probably be pretty good at it. He finished out last year strong and so many young top pick D have shown they can handle impact top 4 roles really young

 

[Goptor]

Yeah, hes gonna kill it in Winnipeg or Utica

Sorry - but if you think Holtz is getting any sort of meaningful time on our best chance at a Cup for the next few years, you clearly havent been following Fitzgerald's moves closely

About a 1% chance Holtz gets top-6 minutes and he serves no purpose on a third line as a purely-offense player. The 1% being hes gone super saiyan since last year and is a top-6 NHL player today with a well-rounded game ... very very unlikely

He'll go back for Hellebyuck or cook more in Utica until hes moved for a solid third line contract.

He missed the bus by about a year or two - not his fault, we just ended up too good too soon. His shot was acquired to play with Jack and we just had our best regular season ever and signed a 40+ goal scorer to eight years - his need has dwindled to that of a surplus


This would be true if it wasnt for the rising cap

The Devils are in a perfect storm of cap situations not which has been seen ever in hockey. Their cap struggles coincidentally line up with a 4-5+m cap increase each season over five or more years

The Devils will only not win multiple Cups in the next decade if injuries or extremely poor managing get in the way; and Im pretty damn sure its not the latter so we should pray its not the former

The team isn't designed for this to be the best year.
All the top players are locked into contracts that take advantage of the huge cap increases the next 2 years. They aren't an advantage this year when the cap is still lower.

Its why they are going to be bringing in 3 Dmen who have yet to be full time players. If anything, this is the best year to bring Holtz onto the team.

 

[Devils731]

The problem with Holtz is he's THIS administration's top pick, they aren't giving him up on him as easy as say, Pavel Zacha.

The Devils didn’t “give up” on Zacha until he was 25. Holtz is 21. Their comparison doesn’t really make sense right now.

I think that’s where some of the discussion gets odd. Holtz isn’t on a perfect path right now but his path can still reasonably look like a very good NHL player because of how young he is. I feel like some people act like he’s already aged out of having growth, which is odd.

 

[Satans Hockey]

CM Punk with some awful attempts at trolling at the rock last night, we made it to the 2nd round and Taylor Hall played on 3 teams before going to Chicago lol...

 

[Devils731]

The team isn't designed for this to be the best year.

It’s hard to forecast too much into the future but I think it’s pretty easy to look at the Devils and think the team will be better next year and then better again the year after without much argument.

 

[Hisch13r]

The Devils didn’t “give up” on Zacha until he was 25. Holtz is 21. Their comparison doesn’t really make sense right now.

I think that’s where some of the discussion gets odd. Holtz isn’t on a perfect path right now but his path can still reasonably look like a very good NHL player because of how young he is. I feel like some people act like he’s already aged out of having growth, which is odd.

I agree that he definitely hasn’t reached the end of the runway. This has to be the year he starts to take off and shows something though. I don’t think he got a fair shake last year either but that’s over and done with. They need to give him some rope this year to show something and especially with the 3RW hole. The rest of the team is so strong you can afford to give Holtz some time to work through some difficulties but he’s also gotta show something this year if they give him a real shot

 

[Ripshot 43]

CM Punk with some awful attempts at trolling at the rock last night, we made it to the 2nd round and Taylor Hall played on 3 teams before going to Chicago lol...

 

[Triumph]

Yeah, hes gonna kill it in Winnipeg or Utica

Sorry - but if you think Holtz is getting any sort of meaningful time on our best chance at a Cup for the next few years, you clearly havent been following Fitzgerald's moves closely

About a 1% chance Holtz gets top-6 minutes and he serves no purpose on a third line as a purely-offense player. The 1% being hes gone super saiyan since last year and is a top-6 NHL player today with a well-rounded game ... very very unlikely

He'll go back for Hellebyuck or cook more in Utica until hes moved for a solid third line contract.

He missed the bus by about a year or two - not his fault, we just ended up too good too soon. His shot was acquired to play with Jack and we just had our best regular season ever and signed a 40+ goal scorer to eight years - his need has dwindled to that of a surplus

This is extremely overconfident. Injuries happen. People forget that after 1 season that injuries happen - the Devils lost extremely few man games to injury, with only Palat and Bastian missing significant time. The Devils used 19 forwards last season, which really averages out to 18 because they traded Zetterlund for Meier. They used 23 in 2022, 20 in 2021 (19), 19 in 2020 (18), and 25 in 2019.

This would be true if it wasnt for the rising cap

The Devils are in a perfect storm of cap situations not which has been seen ever in hockey. Their cap struggles coincidentally line up with a 4-5+m cap increase each season over five or more years

The Devils will only not win multiple Cups in the next decade if injuries or extremely poor managing get in the way; and Im pretty damn sure its not the latter so we should pray its not the former

Winning the Stanley Cup is extremely hard and even harder in an era of 32 teams. The Devils' expectation is not multiple Cups. It would be great if it happened, but it's not likely.

 

[ZachaFlockaFlame]

Yeah, hes gonna kill it in Winnipeg or Utica

Sorry - but if you think Holtz is getting any sort of meaningful time on our best chance at a Cup for the next few years, you clearly havent been following Fitzgerald's moves closely

About a 1% chance Holtz gets top-6 minutes and he serves no purpose on a third line as a purely-offense player. The 1% being hes gone super saiyan since last year and is a top-6 NHL player today with a well-rounded game ... very very unlikely

He'll go back for Hellebyuck or cook more in Utica until hes moved for a solid third line contract.

He missed the bus by about a year or two - not his fault, we just ended up too good too soon. His shot was acquired to play with Jack and we just had our best regular season ever and signed a 40+ goal scorer to eight years - his need has dwindled to that of a surplus


This would be true if it wasnt for the rising cap

The Devils are in a perfect storm of cap situations not which has been seen ever in hockey. Their cap struggles coincidentally line up with a 4-5+m cap increase each season over five or more years

The Devils will only not win multiple Cups in the next decade if injuries or extremely poor managing get in the way; and Im pretty damn sure its not the latter so we should pray its not the former

You don't piss a young player because of their cap situation, lmao. And that cap is going to get tighter and tighter with our contending years.

I’d agree with Holtz and the Top-6, but I could see him have success there with Palat and Haula. 2 hard nosed guys with some skill to get him the puck.

Bratt-Jack-Holtz
Meier-Nico-Mercer
Palat-Haula-Toffoli

Flip Holtz and Toffoli as you wish but I would prefer what I said to be the lines.

 

[Camille the Eel]

Can't remember, but has there been any announcement or specifics in regards to Ruff's contract other than Fitz saying he'll be back?

Good question about whether Ruff has in fact been signed for next season. I don’t remember hearing anything about it either and if we are right it’s weird with less than 2 months left until camp and presumably the coaches do prep early and are probably working pretty soon.

 

[Devils731]

One thing I hope for the Devils next season, I think the team is very talented in the top 6 and 9 forwards and has good depth in the bottom 6 forwards, so I hope they give people more nights off and force people to sit out injuries longer in an attempt to be fresher for the playoffs.

I don’t know if it’s the Devils medical staff, team culture, and/or player personality but the Devils had players come back from injuries last year where they were still pretty banged up. The Devils are good enough where they don’t have to do that; even if it costs them some points.

 

[Bleedred]

CM Punk with some awful attempts at trolling at the rock last night, we made it to the 2nd round and Taylor Hall played on 3 teams before going to Chicago lol...

Hall has actually played on 5 teams before Chicago.

He's definitely one of the better/most highly skilled journeyman of his generation.

Jagr started playing for a bunch of different teams, but his sixth NHL team was the Bruins at 41 years old. 10 years older than Hall is now.

 

[Satans Hockey]

Hall has actually played on 5 teams before Chicago.

He's definitely one of the better/most highly skilled journeyman of his generation.

Jagr started playing for a bunch of different teams, but his sixth NHL team was the Bruins at 41 years old. 10 years older than Hall is now.

I said 3 cause he went to 3 different teams after us so it's silly to thank Devils fans for him when none of us even think of him anymore and we didn't directly trade him to Chicago like the way Punk makes it out to be lol

 

[Devs3cups]

This is extremely overconfident. Injuries happen. People forget that after 1 season that injuries happen - the Devils lost extremely few man games to injury, with only Palat and Bastian missing significant time. The Devils used 19 forwards last season, which really averages out to 18 because they traded Zetterlund for Meier. They used 23 in 2022, 20 in 2021 (19), 19 in 2020 (18), and 25 in 2019.



Winning the Stanley Cup is extremely hard and even harder in an era of 32 teams. The Devils' expectation is not multiple Cups. It would be great if it happened, but it's not likely.

I could see 2 in the coming years, with our youth right now and the youth coming, but it’s no easy task. One is likely, as much as it’s possible to be “likely” to win a Cup.

 

[Bleedred]

Cap friendly actually has us listed as having no head coach at all lol. There's no name listed under our spot, but Calgary doesn't have a name listed either and they've already hired a head coach.

Keep in mind, cap friendly is no true authority or resource on if Ruff is officially signed or not, as they don't have the salary or terms of several coaches on there.

If we had no plans to bring back Ruff, I'm sure we would have promoted Brunette before Nashville took him.

Ever since the Travis Green hiring, I'm now the most pro-Ruff I've ever been. Because if Ruff goes, it looks like we're getting Green at this point and all indications are that he isn't a very good NHL head coach, even though it was Vancouver and they're a poorly built team. Although it's probably better than worthless Kevin Dineen, who was even worse at the NHL head coaching level.

I don't see any way Ruff doesn't return at this point, unless something developed between the offseason and now that's made him not wanna coach anymore. Perhaps health issues or something, which I have no reason to believe will happen, but I'm just saying hypothetically that would be the only reason he wouldn't coach here to start this coming year, would be something like that IMO.

He wasn't at development camp (I don't think?) but some teams don't have their NHL coaching staff on hand and will just use their development coaches and/or AHL coaching staff. I heard something about worthless shit head Kevin Dineen being there.

Back in the Lou days, we definitely had the NHL coaching staff at development camp, as I clearly remember the media hovering over DeBoer waiting to ask him about the Kovalchuk retirement that had happened a week before.

 

[Bleedred]

I said 3 cause he went to 3 different teams after us so it's silly to thank Devils fans for him when none of us even think of him anymore and we didn't directly trade him to Chicago like the way Punk makes it out to be lol

I don't know if Punk has turned heel since coming back (it sounded like a semi-heel promo), but maybe he's thanking us for not re-signing Hall and in that case, I think EVERYBODY on our end should be thankful that he doesn't have 5 years left at $10 million per (8 years at $10-$11 million per was what we were expecting to have to give him to keep him lol) cause that would easily be the worst contract on our books, with nothing even close to it. The most consolation is that there would be no Palat or Dougie Hamilton in that case. And there'd probably be no Timo Meier. And I can only imagine Jesper Bratt being like ''I'm not taking under $8! This guy makes double digits in cap hit per year and I'm better than he is now!''.

Fitz would have inherited a bit of a mess, as that contract (at what we were speculating Hall would get) would have gotten Shero fired, if he wasn't fired anyway when he was and we re-signed Hall to what would have been an albatross at that price. Especially since that was before the flat cap.

 

[VoidCreature]

Dawson Mercer is better than Taylor Hall at this point anyway, can’t think anyone regrets the trade.