Devils team discussion (news, notes and speculation) - 2023 offseason part II

[Guttersniped]

The reason I didn't address it is because Boqvist is one of the few players to whom bottom 6 is actually a worthwhile signifier - he receives 4th line ice time but generally plays on a higher line and is seldom used on special teams. He was also used plenty with the 4th line last year - he had 145 minutes with McLeod, 77 with Wood, and 23 with Bastian. Only Sharangovich had more time with McLeod among the non-4th liners and he was used in a similar-ish role at points during the year.

Boqvist was not ever an analytical darling. You just don't understand how a player who receives 10 minutes of ES ice time is unlikely to score very much, and when a player scores a decent amount with that sort of ice time it will still look kinda shitty. Maybe, just maybe, though, not everyone is totally wedded to numbers and some people like to see players who've grown up here also succeed here.

Yeah, not everyone hates fringy players or thinks they all suck or don’t matter or have to be driven from our site.

They’re often kind of interesting, I usually have affection for many of them, and some do have upside.

As someone else said, this is almost like a Boqvist/Novak trade and again we’re a team that need the veteran PK guy and they could use the younger upside, speed, etc at a budget price.

Boqvist likely had a number of suitors and he for sure took a very team friendly deal.

He might not do anything in Boston but there’s definitely real opportunity there for him, the competition and forward depth is pretty underwhelming.

These are the Evolving Hockey estimates for Boqvist, our new signing and a center some people have been interested in.

AFP Analytics (from the Athletic) had these contract projections for those players.

Suter
2 years/1,853,271.79
Boqvist
2 years/1,520,042.21
Novak
2 years/1,240,741.84

The difference between the Suter’s estimates might explain why he’s unsigned. The center market can get pricey but he’s not a guy teams are likely to want to splurge on (because he’s tiny).

Honestly the 2 years/1.5m deal seems a bit rich for Boqvist but he definitely was up for more than the 775k he got from Boston.

Staying on our 4th line wasn’t exactly the most promising gig for him.

 

[devilsblood]

It doesn’t send a great message


Bubble boy? Like the Moops?

Moors

 

[My3Sons]

Moors

The card says Moops.

 

[SteveCangialosi123]

The card says Moops.

 

[My3Sons]

Truly a high water mark for western civilization.

 

[Better Call Sal]

What Boq brought was high end skating. By letting him go, as well as Shara and Wood, while bringing in the likes of Taffoli and potentially Foote, makes us less much less of a skating team.


McLeod in addition to taking faceoffs, including a ton of d-zone faceoffs, and playing the PK, is also as good a skater as Boq, and much more physical.

I would argue that our team needs a bit of a different element mixed within the elite skating that many of our best players possess. While I'm a fan of Boqvist and feel he has skills that can make him a player, his strongest skillset is also somewhat redundant on this roster.

I think that an argument can be made that having some stronger possession type players could be what allows us to set up more strongly against the likes of a Carolina who defend well off the rush and forecheck like crazy. This is an example of how we don't necessarily have a B game when our A game is not working. Is that how the staff is viewing things though? Not sure, but you can understand why they felt some spare parts were replaceable with perhaps some different kind of players to rotate into the bottom 6 such as Nosek, Lazar and Foote. You don't need every guy on your roster to be a prime skater. It's important, but you need to combine skillsets in a useful way. With younger guys who have more possible tools available in their toolbox coming down in Holtz, Foote and maybe even Clarke, keeping Boqvist here would have just furthered the log jam.

Also, Toffoli is absolutely an upgrade on either Sharangovich and Wood. Plant him on a line with Hughes and Bratt and let them skate circles around the defense before finding him open somewhere.

**********



One-time Devil Mike McKenna pumps our tires.

 

[Billdo]

I would argue that our team needs a bit of a different element mixed within the elite skating that many of our best players possess. While I'm a fan of Boqvist and feel he has skills that can make him a player, his strongest skillset is also somewhat redundant on this roster.

I think that an argument can be made that having some stronger possession type players could be what allows us to set up more strongly against the likes of a Carolina who defend well off the rush and forecheck like crazy. This is an example of how we don't necessarily have a B game when our A game is not working. Is that how the staff is viewing things though? Not sure, but you can understand why they felt some spare parts were replaceable with perhaps some different kind of players to rotate into the bottom 6 such as Nosek, Lazar and Foote. You don't need every guy on your roster to be a prime skater. It's important, but you need to combine skillsets in a useful way. With younger guys who have more possible tools available in their toolbox coming down in Holtz, Foote and maybe even Clarke, keeping Boqvist here would have just furthered the log jam.

Also, Toffoli is absolutely an upgrade on either Sharangovich and Wood. Plant him on a line with Hughes and Bratt and let them skate circles around the defense before finding him open somewhere.

**********



One-time Devil Mike McKenna pumps our tires.

I've thought about this for a while as well. While having four lines of burners and high end skaters would be great, I think have different elements throughout the lineup will also help. None of this guys are like Maroon or Butcher type of skaters anyway, but I don't mind having guys who provide something different even if it means the "skating" takes a hit.

 

[Hisch13r]

I would argue that our team needs a bit of a different element mixed within the elite skating that many of our best players possess. While I'm a fan of Boqvist and feel he has skills that can make him a player, his strongest skillset is also somewhat redundant on this roster.

I think that an argument can be made that having some stronger possession type players could be what allows us to set up more strongly against the likes of a Carolina who defend well off the rush and forecheck like crazy. This is an example of how we don't necessarily have a B game when our A game is not working. Is that how the staff is viewing things though? Not sure, but you can understand why they felt some spare parts were replaceable with perhaps some different kind of players to rotate into the bottom 6 such as Nosek, Lazar and Foote. You don't need every guy on your roster to be a prime skater. It's important, but you need to combine skillsets in a useful way. With younger guys who have more possible tools available in their toolbox coming down in Holtz, Foote and maybe even Clarke, keeping Boqvist here would have just furthered the log jam.

Also, Toffoli is absolutely an upgrade on either Sharangovich and Wood. Plant him on a line with Hughes and Bratt and let them skate circles around the defense before finding him open somewhere.

**********



One-time Devil Mike McKenna pumps our tires.

Unless Foote’s actually good enough to play in the top 9 then I don’t think having a 4th line and extras of Foote, McLeod, Bastian, Nosek, Lazar is good either. I definitely don’t feel confident about throwing any of those other 4 into a top 9 role. We’re really banking on one of Holtz, Clarke, Foote being able to take that 3RW and hopefully 2 of them are capable of playing there since there will obviously be injuries. I’d feel much more comfortable having Boqvist or a Boqvist type who you can throw onto the 4th line and he’d be fine or he can play up in the lineup if need be and be a serviceable piece. It’s why I’ve wanted Suter. He’s a good defensive bottom 6er who also has enough skill to plop into your top 9 and feel perfectly fine. I think the 4th line/extras should have at least one guy that is a different type of player who you can slot up the lineup and not have to worry. Not going 5 guys that are true 4th line/extra type players. Now if Foote’s a guy who can be good enough to play up that changes things but I’d rather have the insurance and especially so when our 3RW is already far from settled and all 3 options could be duds

 

[devilsblood]

I would argue that our team needs a bit of a different element mixed within the elite skating that many of our best players possess. While I'm a fan of Boqvist and feel he has skills that can make him a player, his strongest skillset is also somewhat redundant on this roster.

I think that an argument can be made that having some stronger possession type players could be what allows us to set up more strongly against the likes of a Carolina who defend well off the rush and forecheck like crazy. This is an example of how we don't necessarily have a B game when our A game is not working. Is that how the staff is viewing things though? Not sure, but you can understand why they felt some spare parts were replaceable with perhaps some different kind of players to rotate into the bottom 6 such as Nosek, Lazar and Foote. You don't need every guy on your roster to be a prime skater. It's important, but you need to combine skillsets in a useful way. With younger guys who have more possible tools available in their toolbox coming down in Holtz, Foote and maybe even Clarke, keeping Boqvist here would have just furthered the log jam.

Also, Toffoli is absolutely an upgrade on either Sharangovich and Wood. Plant him on a line with Hughes and Bratt and let them skate circles around the defense before finding him open somewhere.

**********



One-time Devil Mike McKenna pumps our tires.

Is that tweet saying we didn’t have an identity last season? I thought we absolutely did. We were a fast skating transition heavy team.

And personally im not stoked that we pivoted from that identity after our first good season in a decade(save one year). Sure, Carolina took it to us but we were coming off a long tough series while they were sitting home waiting for us. I don’t think we had two days off in the the playoffs.

And its not like Boq was a factor in that series loss. He didn’t play at all actually.

Still adding a slower guy like Taffoli is an easy call. And to your point of redundancy i think losing Wood will open up more opportunities for McLeod to push the puck up ice. We definitely do have a lot of high end skaters at Fwd and by adding Luke we will be adding an elite skating dman.

Back to the tweet does any of that add up to an identity? I dunno seems we just traded some speed for some other elements.

 

[Oneiro]

The team needs to get better at offense from the cycle and set o-zone possession, but you don't necessarily need to sacrifice skating to do that. The cup winning Avs were great at the cycle and their speed and skill in the corners was a big part of that. But I think they had more size from their main guys.

My guess is that the team won't develop that side of their game fast enough under Ruff and it's likely his replacement that implements it. We will always be fast in transition with the core we have. Beyond goaltending, it's really just a question of learning to win when the game gets sludgy and managing the puck better.

There probably was more to Boqvist's game but it seems like Ruff was never really a fan. He was better defensively than Wood and put up basically the same amount of offense with similar minutes. I don't care about Wood's physicality - it's an anecdote that impacts games maybe 5x a year and wasn't there post-injury. Boqvist probably should've been playing as 4LW as soon as it was clear Wood was fighting it. Teams and coaches making these sort of small adjustments is probably the next step of efficiency the league as a whole needs to take - don't wait for vets to relinquish spots, just go with what's working.

Leaving aside that I don't like Palat's contract, I like the kind of players being brought in to complement the speed - Haula, Palat, Nosek, Miller are all guys that don't throw the puck away and they know where to be to recover. Turning over the depth to guys with higher IQ and experience is not a bad thing at all.

 

[SteveCangialosi123]

 

[Darkauron]

Patty will always be the GOAT

 

[Billdo]

Is that tweet saying we didn’t have an identity last season? I thought we absolutely did. We were a fast skating transition heavy team.

And personally im not stoked that we pivoted from that identity after our first good season in a decade(save one year). Sure, Carolina took it to us but we were coming off a long tough series while they were sitting home waiting for us. I don’t think we had two days off in the the playoffs.

And its not like Boq was a factor in that series loss. He didn’t play at all actually.

Still adding a slower guy like Taffoli is an easy call. And to your point of redundancy i think losing Wood will open up more opportunities for McLeod to push the puck up ice. We definitely do have a lot of high end skaters at Fwd and by adding Luke we will be adding an elite skating dman.

Back to the tweet does any of that add up to an identity? I dunno seems we just traded some speed for some other elements.

How do you think we changed the identity already?

 

[BronzeAgeDevilsFan]

Unless Foote’s actually good enough to play in the top 9 then I don’t think having a 4th line and extras of Foote, McLeod, Bastian, Nosek, Lazar is good either. I definitely don’t feel confident about throwing any of those other 4 into a top 9 role. We’re really banking on one of Holtz, Clarke, Foote being able to take that 3RW and hopefully 2 of them are capable of playing there since there will obviously be injuries. I’d feel much more comfortable having Boqvist or a Boqvist type who you can throw onto the 4th line and he’d be fine or he can play up in the lineup if need be and be a serviceable piece. It’s why I’ve wanted Suter. He’s a good defensive bottom 6er who also has enough skill to plop into your top 9 and feel perfectly fine. I think the 4th line/extras should have at least one guy that is a different type of player who you can slot up the lineup and not have to worry. Not going 5 guys that are true 4th line/extra type players. Now if Foote’s a guy who can be good enough to play up that changes things but I’d rather have the insurance and especially so when our 3RW is already far from settled and all 3 options could be duds

this reminded me of what Luff said about having Nemec and Hughes play at the same time in an article dated June 29, 2023 from nhl.com:

"It's pretty hard to have two of them," Ruff said. "You've got to be careful of getting too young too fast, especially on the back end."

2 days later on July 1 we acquired RHD Miller.

then we heard Fitz praise Foote as an up-and-coming player (i dont know the date of this) and then yesterday (7/19) we sign a center/LW who will presumably take the spot that we thought Fitz would leave open for Foote to lose. (unless of course a certain legal situation opens another spot anyway)

So it looks like Fitz has confidence that the young guys can play, but he will still at least partially defer to Ruff (who seems to prefer veterans over young guys with potential) for line up decisions because at the end of the day Ruff is the guy who has to ice a solid team at game time.

now back to the highlighted comment, I would not be totally surprised if we make another move to fill that 3RW spot (i would be a little surprised). but if we do not make a move it is probably safe to say that Ruff likes the options we have on the team already are not just a roll of the dice.

Meier contract solidifies core, gives Devils win in 'bet on New Jersey' | NHL.com

Forward acquired in trade with Sharks could have become restricted free agent

www.nhl.com

 

[NJDevs26]

This is how it has always worked. Honestly, Lou was even worse about it. Still is.

Though with how he's clinging onto the Islanders GM job, at this rate Chris is going to be waiting longer than Prince Charles for the top job.

But I agree, it's not a good look for an organization that usually makes decisions on merit and prides itself for such.

Eh if they want to sign a couple of filler guys for the AHL that's hardly an issue for me, it's not like they're taking a spot on the NHL roster. Plus it's the NHL - you sort of have to expect either a little nepotism or old boys stuff. I was always amused at THAT being a criticism of Lou, as if other GM's don't always do the same thing to varying degrees. Shero came in and brought all of his Pittsburgh cronies, fortunately one of them was Fitz...the important thing is Fitz isn't blinded to it where it really is gonna affect the NHL on-ice product.

Plus Lou was probably affected by the whole Nieds thing - not being able to get his brother and losing Scotty as a result, then Jordan Parise washing out helping to poison relations between daddy dearest and the Devils.

 

[JrFischer54]

also, Fitz and Dan Mackinnon are good at their job (although I honestly have no idea what Brodeur does and if he's good at it or not) so i dont care about these signings.

i will mention it was weird that we just had to draft brodeurs son. like that was unnecessary but w/e

Really makes you wonder like seeing how many father son duos made it to the show and some really good ones how didn’t broduer? I’m sure he had to have the best coaching at every stage wonder if a different position would’ve been better



Going to see a lot of red face (ooops) hammered slurring Harris on national tv games now with the commanders

 

[Nubmer6]

Will is, wait for it, Devils AGM and Utica GM Dan MacKinnon’s son.

So both Ryan Fitzgerald and this guy leave the Flyers org and sign with their Dad’s org.

It’s not there isn’t space, particularly on the Thunder (especially for RHD), so I’m not complaining but it’s still kind of funny.

All the nepo hires are starting to get really annoying, deserved or not.

Of all the family members we signed, why the hell couldn't we have signed Fitz's cousin???

 

[My3Sons]

Of all the family members we signed, why the hell couldn't we have signed Fitz's cousin???

But my jokes are bad

 

[Nubmer6]

But my jokes are bad

 

[devilsblood]

How do you think we changed the identity already?

Well Wood and Boq were probably top 5 on the team in terms of pure speed up ice.

And we've replaced them with Taffoli and maybe Foote or Nosek. All of whom are below average skaters(or so seems to be the scouting report). If Holtz cracks the lineup, then even more so.

Now team identity can be a nebulous thing. A fast team can still have physical players, and a physical team can still try to play fast, at least at times. But, contrary to the tweet, I thought we did have an identity last year, and I think we gave some of that up heading into next year, in favor of something different.

 

[Better Call Sal]

Well Wood and Boq were probably top 5 on the team in terms of pure speed up ice.

And we've replaced them with Taffoli and maybe Foote or Nosek. All of whom are below average skaters(or so seems to be the scouting report). If Holtz cracks the lineup, then even more so.

Now team identity can be a nebulous thing. A fast team can still have physical players, and a physical team can still try to play fast, at least at times. But, contrary to the tweet, I thought we did have an identity last year, and I think we gave some of that up heading into next year, in favor of something different.

If you read the article, it seems to say to me that the identity was built up last year, as you mentioned. And it is now making us a desirable destination for players.

That said, I don't think the losses of Wood and Boqvist are significant dents to our speedy identity. Especially Wood, who if not going in a straight line, isn't exactly a speed demon out there. I think we still have plenty of quick, fluid skaters on this team that we will still keep teams on their toes, especially from the most talented players in our core. I don't think we're sacrificing that identity so much as attempting to complement that strength as much as possible.

 

[Guadana]

Will is, wait for it, Devils AGM and Utica GM Dan MacKinnon’s son.

So both Ryan Fitzgerald and this guy leave the Flyers org and sign with their Dad’s org.

It’s not there isn’t space, particularly on the Thunder (especially for RHD), so I’m not complaining but it’s still kind of funny.

Its not corruption and nepotism. Both were scouted better.
Fitzgerald is an Italian last name. Should be

 

[MadDevil]

Changing out a couple of bottom 6 forwards isn't going to change our identity.

 

[Hockey Sports Fan]

What a difference 5 years makes…

 

[Classic Devil]

What a difference 5 years makes…



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There are so many spelling and grammatical errors in that article. Yikes, do some basic editing.