Devils team discussion (news, notes and speculation) - 2023 offseason part II

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I would have expected Holtz, Nemec, and Clarke to attend this camp.

My assumption for why they aren’t is that the club thinks these players will benefit more from continuing off-ice training and targeted skill development rather than a general camp.

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Still some fun names, Casey and Filmon will probably have the biggest excitement from the fan base.
 
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So hey guys are we getting Hellebuyck today?

We ride with VV and Schmid, baby



Probably the least interested I've been in development camp in some time. Feels good. :laugh:

Want to get a look at Hatakka. Thought he was an interesting piece in that Timo deal. My understanding was that he was okay in the ahl the year before at 20 and then got hurt last year?
 
I saw a comparison to Reid Boucher on another site. Holtz’s is a much better skater and playmaker than him, right?

Boucher had a wicked shot and a knack for getting to soft areas of the ice to launch it, but that's about it. Holtz is a better skater, and a far better playmaker. I don't think it's at all reasonable to compare the two.

Holtz's inconsistent hockey sense and lack of defensive awareness are what are holding him back right now. Boucher's issues were that he couldn't put his tools together at the NHL level. And also he was credibly accused of being a rapist, which tends to put a damper on things.
 
For holtz specifically, would be a huge positive step. Given where he would slot in the lineup, playing 70 games probably means that he has worked on stuff outside of his shot and does enough to justify being in the lineup.

Now, in a very general sense, you have a 7th overall pick who is putting up 20/20 this far into his career, I am underwhelmed. But underwhelmed would be far superior to where we are at now

I get this but at the same time all 3 picks hitting in a same draft class are probably super rare. Hell even 2/3 are pretty rare, look at 2015 Boston and the Rags when they had 3 in 2018. Only 1 player became really good for those teams in DeBrusk and K'Andre Miller. I'll take the wins in Mercer, trading Shak as a center piece for Timo and at this point Holtz is gravy but at the same time you still want him to be good. It's a role reversal from 2020 draft night but I wouldn't be too upset at this current outcome. Let's hope Holtz shows out in 2023-2024 or at the least, he's able to get traded somewhere to play top 6 and not burn us hopefully lmao

holtz and clarke i'm not surprised they skipped out -- nemec is a bit of a surprise, but he's already proven he's already AHL+ caliber i guess?

That + the amount of hockey he's played in the past year is insane. Just let him rest up and worry about camp in September. Also the less players that actually are close to the NHL level playing in this glorified scrimmage, the better imo. Don't need something to happen to Clarke, Holtz or Nemec like that Toronto prospect the other day even though that hit was clean.
 
I don't get the Hellebuyck stuff. I've yet to see a realistic proposal that makes any sense. We don't even have a first.

Every contender can add him at 50% retained, he's going to cost a fortune.
 
If anyone remembers last year's camp, Edwards looked like a top notch skater and really moved on the ice. It will be interesting to see if he has developed that further. A number of NJ prospects will rise and fall with their skating development beyond Hameenaho. Hurting, Salminen, and Hauser are all pretty meh skaters and if they can improve on that they might have some sort of chance.
 
Jets fans are legit scammers on the main board too. Trying to bait a bidding war between Sabres fans and us.
As always the main boards represents a small number compared to the overall fan base and you can't have the majority be painted with the same brush you use to identify the loonies. That said, can you blame them? Years of hearing that no players want to be there and now they are seeing that sort of come to fruition? They need something to distract themselves. I feel bad for them.
 
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As always the main boards represents a small number compared to the overall fan base and you can't have the majority be painted with the same brush you use to identify the loonies. That said, can you blame them? Years of hearing that no players want to be there and now they are seeing that sort of come to fruition? They need something to distract themselves. I feel bad for them.

Most of their fanbase is taking pot shots at us and the Sabres for running it back with younger goalies in hopes we're somehow convinced with their argument to trade a haul for Hellebuyck so I couldn't care less, lol. And I mean, that's majority of the small market teams. We've heard that all the time until Dougie broke the mold recently. The only person to feel slightly bad for is Chevydaloff since he makes actual good teams there and no one wants to stay in the Canada's Columbus, Ohio.
 
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is it reaching Josh Anderson territory?
Josh Anderson is peak territory that may never be revisited.

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Anderson fan: Anderson fits the bill. How about a first and a mid-prospect for him?

Other team fan: No…I think of Anderson as more of a cap dump with negative value.

Anderson fan: What?!?! There is a bidding war for him going on in the NHL. Anderson is everything GMs want. We are just lucky enough our GM isn’t stupid enough to trade him.

———

That conversation done a million times.

A player who actually has value just can’t get there.
 
I don't get the Hellebuyck stuff. I've yet to see a realistic proposal that makes any sense. We don't even have a first.

Every contender can add him at 50% retained, he's going to cost a fortune.

Feels like Winnipeg is going to want to deal him this offseason though - otherwise you have that distraction all season, plus there's also a decent chance that Winnipeg is in a playoff position come the TDL, so would they really want to waive the white flag and trade away their best player?
 
I don't get the Hellebuyck stuff. I've yet to see a realistic proposal that makes any sense. We don't even have a first.

Every contender can add him at 50% retained, he's going to cost a fortune.

Until we actually reach the conference finals this year, we do have a first, though I'm not sure that Winnipeg necessarily wants that right now (I think that will change as they get in season and move to the TDL). The talk was that they want hockey trades, which is supported by the PLD return.

I don't believe that he gets moved with any sort of extension in place. I think he'll get moved as a rental which immediately caps any return in terms of value.
 
Jets fans are legit scammers on the main board too. Trying to bait a bidding war between Sabres fans and us.

Fans can be really bad about value, I think, with one of their guys. There was a subsect of devils fans that thought Hall could pull in Byram.

I checked out the Ducks board and I think someone posited an expected return on Gibson from the devils as Holtz, VV and a first, I think (I may have that wrong, but I think I'm right).

But it's usually a smaller group who just happens to be vocal.
 
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Most of their fanbase is taking pot shots at us and the Sabres for running it back with younger goalies in hopes we're somehow convinced with their argument to trade a haul for Hellebuyck so I couldn't care less, lol. And I mean, that's majority of the small market teams. We've heard that all the time until Dougie broke the mold recently. The only person to feel slightly bad for is Chevydaloff since he makes actual good teams there and no one wants to stay in the Canada's Columbus, Ohio.
I'm not sure you can say it's most of their fanbase. How many posters on the main boards are doing that? 10? 20? 100? That's a small number in context. Plus, just about every fan base pulls that stunt. Sharks fans did it last year with Mercer and Jarvis. Montreal fans and Josh Anderson (that was glorious). I'm sure there are other examples.
 
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Can you believe the gear we wore back then? It's a wonder we weren't maimed for life. Well, some actually were.
This was the era of the out of control unlimited curved sticks and the mammoth increased speed slap shots. Many were just adjusting to the masks that Plante innovated. They soon had to be altered as the fit to your face mask became as dangerous as playing without one as the puck smashed the mask into your face and spread the damage around.

The equipment you see today began as a means of self defense. As Mike Palmateer said in a book on goalies, I have nightmares about actually being killed with a shot. That's why he played with such reckless unabandoned concern for his well being. He said he was probably going to die anyways so why worry about it? These guys today wouldn't even consider playing in a full set of that gear.

Look at Chico's arms. Is he actually wearing pads? Yup, probably the best available. Brown made the best in my opinion. The chest protector was like a thin version of a baseball catcher's. they were separate pieces. Nothing closely resembling the one piece kevlar body armor they wear today.

The leg pads are half the width and much shorter than the featherweight mattresses worn today. They were also leather stuffed with horsehair and/or deer hair. They soaked up water and became heavier than Hell. The stuffing had to be ramped up several times during a full season. There weren't the carefully constructed pads down the insides of the legs like today. Shots to the inside of the legs usually met with a sock covered leg. The bruises on a goalie's body back then ranged from the shoulders to the feet and everywhere in between. John Davidson used to go the whirlpool bath after a game and fill it with cold water and lots of ice and just sit there in the tub numbing up the contusions.

Look how small his gloves are. The trapper is merely a 1st baseman's glove with a leather wrist cuff lined with hard plastic. The blockers surface was plastic that eventually curved way out of shape giving the keeper less surface to block shots. The thumb was highly susceptible to injury. Amazing bruises going halfway up the arm were very common as those wrist cuffs just didn't do the job. The palm of the trapper was merely leather just like a baseball glove. Trying to perfect catching all the shots in the webbing became impossible as the shots got harder, faster, and curved, rose, and dropped with the action the pucks got from the newly innovated sticks. Bruises on the palms and especially the ball of the thumb had to be numbed in order to play pain free.

There are several reasons why so many historically real good goalies had poor GAAs. The equipment was #1. The move from heavier wood sticks to light fiber glass sticks with out of control banana blades turned shots form guys like Bobby Hull into nightmare blurs that exploded upon contact. Heavy wet leather doesn't slide across the crease like hydrophobic synthetic leather and nylon stuffed with dense closed-cell foams and plastic, which incidentally seem weightless in comparison. Forget that crap about the good old days! LOL!!!!!!!!!!!

It was still fun and I wouldn't trade it for the world, but I wouldn't mind having suffered a lot less discomfort and at times outright pain.
 
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