Devils team discussion (news, notes and speculation) - 2023-24 season part III

[Devils Trap]

Well they did just trade their best center lmao. Same with Philly. Probably will sell due to the bigger picture

UFA Center and UFA 3rd Pairing Dman vs Goalie locked up for 2 years after this though isnt a fair comparison

They have no NEED to trade Markstrom if they dont wan to.

 

[JimEIV]

This is why wins are not a great stat for goalies over a single season.

Isn't he winning at a similar clip to last year?

He's due to lose some games 2-1, where I'm gonna be the only one bitching about him, where there's a ton of cope posts like ''It's not Vitek's fault! He's played GREAT tonight! We just scored one goal'', which is very realistic considering how he's overachieved in the wins column to this point in the year.

He's probably due for some hard luck losses, to collect on a decent amount of pedestrian wins.

I just don't think they play as significant a role in wins and loses as people want to believe.

Edit: over the course of the regular season...playoffs is a different story.

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

"goalies don't play a significant role in wins and losses" is not a take I thought I'd see on here, but here we are.

 

[JimEIV]

I think it wouldn't have been a huge deal if there wasn't the Dougie injury and regression from Siegenthaler and Marino. On paper a defensive grouping of Siegenthaler-Hamilton, Bahl-Marino, Hughes-Miller should've been able to weather the storm. Certainly would've been nice to not NEED Nemec and Hughes playing 20 mins a night.

Even with Dougie in, there is still a huge PK gap. Graves was our #2 PKer last season...the #4 ranked PK in the league last year ... We are the 18th ranked PK right now.

 

[TheUnseenHand]

"goalies don't play a significant role in wins and losses" is not a take I thought I'd see on here, but here we are.

It's not a take that was made. There is a difference between "as significant" and "significant".

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

It's not a take that was made. There is a difference between "as significant" and "significant".

Jim knows what he is doing. I will leave it at that.

 

[Killing Joke]

I despise ruff and want him gone the issue isn’t systemic it’s literally the f***ing goalie being dog shit. He lets in dog shit goal after dog shit goal. Last game was an example of why he sucks and people still want to blame the f***ing defense.

And people want to rely on the eye test and wave their hands at analytics lmao.

 

[Bleedred]

And since I talked enough about Markstrom's past seasons, moneypucks models actually have him playing at about a career year this season. At least to this point.

He's at +0.475 GSAx per 60.

That’s like the reverse of Vitek, who I believe they have at -0.475 GSAx per 60.

Markstrom this year saves close to a half a goal more per game the average goalie. Vitek allows close to a half a goal more per game than the average goalie would under these conditions.

Evolving hockey’s numbers slightly flatter Vitek from moneypucks models, but not by much. Only about a half a goal less this season.

Moneypuck actually does GSAx per 60, among other neat stats. Evolving hockey just shows GSAx overall.

He has a slightly better GSAx on evolving hockey. Its a -12.61 GSAx on evolving hockey to a -13.3 GSAx on moneypuck.

Difference of about 0.70 goals over 31 games? Either way you cut it? He baddddddd this year lol.

 

[Bleedred]

I despise ruff and want him gone the issue isn’t systemic it’s literally the f***ing goalie being dog shit. He lets in dog shit goal after dog shit goal. Last game was an example of why he sucks and people still want to blame the f***ing defense.

And people want to rely on the eye test and wave their hands at analytics lmao.

I understand blaming the system, but last game was ALL goalie.

We got GOALIED. And we didn’t get goalied by Markstrom; we got goalied by Vanecek.

We got TORPEDOED by him.

The quality of the goals he allowed in that game were TRASH. Schmid against the Sharks may be the only game we saw as many horrible goals go in.

And I also am maybe the only one on here that thinks his praise in the Colorado game was overstated a bit.

Both 3rd period goals were not good in that game.

And even in that game, he barely broke above even in GSAx and was like a minuscule amount better than the Colorado goalie, despite him allowing one more goal on 8 fewer shots.

Yeah; the system sucks. Fire Lindy. That’s fine. We got goalied by Vitek Thursday.

Ohhhhh he made one big save in between the third and fourth goal against!

 

[Killing Joke]

I understand blaming the system, but last game was ALL goalie.

We got GOALIED. And we didn’t get goalied by Markstrom; we got goalied by Vanecek.

We got TORPEDOED by him.

The quality of the goals he allowed in that game were TRASH. Schmid against the Sharks may be the only game we saw as many horrible goals go in.

And I also am maybe the only one on here that thinks his praise in the Colorado game was overstated a bit.

Both 3rd period goals were not good in that game.

And even in that game, he barely broke above even in GSAx and was like a minuscule amount better than the Colorado goalie, despite him allowing one more goal on 8 fewer shots.

Yeah; the system sucks. Fire Lindy. That’s fine. We got goalied by Vitek Thursday.

Ohhhhh he made one big save in between the third and fourth goal against!

Oh we did get goalied by Markstrom, but not by an insane amount. He stopped one goal above expected. Vitek on the other hand had a chance on every single goal and let them in due to poor puck control or being oblivious. He’s just so bad.

Oh and speaking of that sharks game, that’s another ruff masterclass of coaching. Putting in a guy that played the night before and faced 50 shots. Schmid was dead and never should’ve been in net, and that tanked his numbers.

 

[ZachaFlockaFlame]

Literally no one wants to bring Vitek back, not sure what the f*** that argument is? And yes, the issue is systematic when goalies go elsewhere and do better than they were in NJ. You burn the whole operation to the ground with regards to that position. New goalie, goalie coach + HC who actually knows what the f*** he's doing in regards to adjustment while allowing them to play uptempo and not one that his thumb his butt for majority of the season with personnel and in game decisions.

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

Literally one wants to bring Vitek back, not sure what the f*** that argument is? And yes, the issue is systematic when goalies go elsewhere and do better than they were in NJ.

who are these supposed goalies? Scott Wedgewood who hasnt been here in a few years? He is under .900 and has a 3.00 GAA this year btw.

Blackwood is exactly the same guy in San Jose as he was in NJ.

 

[Emperoreddy]

The system is why this isn't a contending team and that won't change until Lindy goes.

But talent alone makes it a playoff team, except in net. We aren't a playoff team because of goaltending. Also even if you fix the system, we still wouldn't be a contending team also because of the goaltending. You simply can't win a cup with the way our goalies play. I'm not sure we are a playoff team in a better system but with the same goaltending. Maybe with the kids who haven't been good, but haven't been other worldly bad, but I don't think any team in the league could go anywhere with the way Vitek has been playing.

I thought Boyle and Rupp laid this out as clearly as possible, it's absolute five alarm fire time in net.

 

[Billdo]

I despise ruff and want him gone the issue isn’t systemic it’s literally the f***ing goalie being dog shit. He lets in dog shit goal after dog shit goal. Last game was an example of why he sucks and people still want to blame the f***ing defense.

And people want to rely on the eye test and wave their hands at analytics lmao.

The system blows defensively as well though. Specifically in zone below the dot coverage.

 

[JimEIV]

Literally no one wants to bring Vitek back, not sure what the f*** that argument is? And yes, the issue is systematic when goalies go elsewhere and do better than they were in NJ. You burn the whole operation to the ground with regards to that position. New goalie, goalie coach + HC who actually knows what the f*** he's doing in regards to adjustment while allowing them to play uptempo and not one that his thumb his butt for majority of the season with personnel and in game decisions.

Is it systematic or just going from a bad team to a better team?

Like Demko a .901 on a bottom 10 team them a .918 on a #1 team.

...he went from below league average to upper echelon? No the .901 was more reflective of the shit team than his ability. Same for the .918

 

[ZachaFlockaFlame]

who are these supposed goalies? Scott Wedgewood who hasnt been here in a few years? He is under .900 and has a 3.00 GAA this year btw.

Blackwood is exactly the same guy in San Jose as he was in NJ.

And Wedgewood was above .910+ the previous two years and had a .911 for a shitty ass Arizona team that was worse than us the same year after he left, but yeah this year matters more because of your narrative. And really? I despise the guy just as much as any other Devils fan but he has 4 games that utterly torpedo his stats on a far worse SJ team that bleeds chances more than NJ this year. Every goalie that Rogalski touches has gotten worse and that includes our prospects. Not sure why you're pining for him here.

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

And Wedgewood was above .910+ the previous two years and had a .911 for a shitty ass Arizona team that was worse than us the same year after he left, but yeah this year matters more because of your narrative. And really? I despise the guy just as much as any other Devils fan but he has 4 games that utterly torpedo his stats on a far worse SJ team that bleeds chances more than NJ this year. Every goalie that Rogalski touches has gotten worse and that includes our prospects. Not sure why you're pining for him here.

you could say this for basically any goalie lol you can't just remove their 4 worst games.

Blackwood sucks.

"every goalie" when its literally one, and even that one is a veteran who has been around the league a ton. How is Andrew Hammond looking? Aaron Dell? Jon Gillies?

 

[ZachaFlockaFlame]

you could say this for basically any goalie lol you can't just remove their 4 worst games.

Blackwood sucks.

"every goalie" when its literally one, and even that one is a veteran who has been around the league a ton. How is Andrew Hammond looking? Aaron Dell? Jon Gillies?

Ah yes Hammond and Dell. guys who were consistent NHLers, they totally fit into this argument of goalies we're talking about.

 

[theoptimist]

Only thumbs in butts we need is in Vitek’s

 

[Nubmer6]

Is it systematic or just going from a bad team to a better team?

Like Demko a .901 on a bottom 10 team them a .918 on a #1 team.

...he went from below league average to upper echelon? No the .901 was more reflective of the shit team than his ability. Same for the .918

I personally think Demko's having a bit of a career year, kind of like VV had last year.

 

[glenwo2]

He looks like Happy Gilmore’s caddy.

Or even a caveman lol.

He really does.

He looks like he would've made a better caveman than the GEICO one back in the day.

 

[Bleedred]

I personally think Demko's having a bit of a career year, kind of like VV had last year.

Probably

But he also had a career worst year last season and was injured and shut down for a couple of months. He was still the best goalie the Canucks had by far last year.

And one more thing, his career year this year (assuming he doesn't slide post all star break like Vitek did last year) is looking a bit better than Vitek's career year.

 

[ZachaFlockaFlame]

Is it systematic or just going from a bad team to a better team?

Like Demko a .901 on a bottom 10 team them a .918 on a #1 team.

...he went from below league average to upper echelon? No the .901 was more reflective of the shit team than his ability. Same for the .918

They literally went from Bruce to Tocchet within that span that Demko's stats got better so yes it's literally systematic?

I personally think Demko's having a bit of a career year, kind of like VV had last year.

Yeah but it'll still land him top 3 in Vezina voting. It should be him, Helly and Adin Hill which is literally shambolic if you think about goaltending as a whole.

 

[Bleedred]

Once the Vitek stuff does come to a head, and shit like this won't happen until he's either BENCHED (like for a while) or he's off the team.

I wonder if we start seeing someone in his camp (as in family) start going off like Uncle Kinkaid and Blackwood's dad last year.

Maybe they'll write in Czech on some site or social media how they can't wait for the Rangers to win the cup or that they can't wait for Lindy to get fired lol.

Like the reverse of Granny Geertsen lol.

Or better yet, publicly sound off about the goalie who we pick up to replace him lol.

 

[ZachaFlockaFlame]

The system is why this isn't a contending team and that won't change until Lindy goes.

But talent alone makes it a playoff team, except in net. We aren't a playoff team because of goaltending. Also even if you fix the system, we still wouldn't be a contending team also because of the goaltending. You simply can't win a cup with the way our goalies play. I'm not sure we are a playoff team in a better system but with the same goaltending. Maybe with the kids who haven't been good, but haven't been other worldly bad, but I don't think any team in the league could go anywhere with the way Vitek has been playing.

I thought Boyle and Rupp laid this out as clearly as possible, it's absolute five alarm fire time in net.

It's clearly evident that Brunette, despite the f*** ups with the powerplay at times last year and not putting Meier on the wing, was the brain of this operation and steered Lindy away from making absurdly dumb decisions.