Devils team discussion (news, notes and speculation) - 2023-24 season part III

[Triumph]

The Devils' record when they score X number of goals, overtime removed, all OT games count as ties, empty net goals don't count either which means this will take me way longer than I want it to:

0 goals: 0-2-0
1 goal: 0-4-0
2 goals: 1-6-2
3 goals: 5-8-4
4 goals: 4-2-1
5 goals: 2-0-1
6 goals: 3-0-0
7 goals: 1-0-0

The Devils are 1-12-2 when scoring fewer than 3 goals.

One other thing I am convinced of but have not gotten a chance to examine is that the Devils slow starts are both a result of poor play and bad luck, but when this team gets to score the first goal in 50% of games, they will look substantially better than they have over this last stretch where they once again almost never score first.

 

[Satans Hockey]

Side note of something I was thinking about, season ticket holders got a chance to skate on the ice at Yankee Stadium, I haven't seen any info or emails about the chance to skate on the ice at Metlife yet.

 

[Bleedred]

3 of the 4 goals against Calgary were bad, if not absolutely BRUTAL.

What big save did he make? That save between the third goal against (the one that wasn’t bad) before he let the absolutely deflating, KILLER game losing rebound out of his glove?

That game was worse than his 5 goal against games against Vancouver and Vegas this year, both of which were wins lol.

 

[Guttersniped]

They are 6th in goals forced per game. I don’t consider them a very bad team. Some less injuries to our stars and .900 goaltending gets them comfortably in Metro 3/WC

It is what it is

I’ve pointed this out before but we’ve dragged Vitek’s ass to victory quite a bit and that’s something good teams do.


Goalies who have at least 2 more Wins than Quality Stars. (Goalies w/ min. of 4 wins).


Definition:

Vs (spoilers just for you!)

Spoiler: Goalies with at least 2 more QS than Wins

If people forget what this was like:
Cory Schneider
2014-15 26 Wins 41 Quality Starts
2015-16 27 Wins 40 Quality Starts

Spoiler: Goalies with only +1 difference at most

If people forget what this was like:
Vanecek
2022-23 33 Wins 32 Quality Starts

 

[Bleedred]

The Devils' record when they score X number of goals, overtime removed, all OT games count as ties, empty net goals don't count either which means this will take me way longer than I want it to:

0 goals: 0-2-0
1 goal: 0-4-0
2 goals: 1-6-2
3 goals: 5-8-4
4 goals: 4-2-1
5 goals: 2-0-1
6 goals: 3-0-0
7 goals: 1-0-0

The Devils are 1-12-2 when scoring fewer than 3 goals.

One other thing I am convinced of but have not gotten a chance to examine is that the Devils slow starts are both a result of poor play and bad luck, but when this team gets to score the first goal in 50% of games, they will look substantially better than they have over this last stretch where they once again almost never score first.

I also know off the top of my head that Vitek has won just ONE game (just one) where we only scored 2 goals. That was the 2-1 OT win over Boston in December.

That’s one of only two starts where he’s allowed just 1 goal. The other was against Columbus.

 

[Emperoreddy]

 

[Emperoreddy]

I also know off the top of my head that Vitek has won just ONE game (just one) where we only scored 2 goals. That was the 2-1 OT win over Boston in December.

That’s one of only two starts where he’s allowed just 1 goal. The other was against Columbus.

Doesn't he have some insanely bad stat again playoff teams? Like only one game above .900?

 

[Bleedred]

I’ve pointed this out before but we’ve dragged Vitek’s ass to victory quite a bit and that’s something bad teams do.


Goalies who have at least 2 more Wins than Quality Stars. (Goalies w/ min. of 4 wins).
View attachment 817343

Definition:
View attachment 817348

Vs (spoilers just for you!)

Spoiler: Goalies with at least 2 more QS than Wins

View attachment 817352View attachment 817353View attachment 817354

If people forget what this was like:
Cory Schneider
2014-15 26 Wins 41 Quality Starts
2015-16 27 Wins 40 Quality Starts

Spoiler: Goalies with only +1 difference at most

View attachment 817349View attachment 817350View attachment 817351

If people forget what this was like:
Vanecek
2022-23 33 Wins 32 Quality Starts

I was talking about quality starts yesterday, but Vitek’s is under 40%. Old, declining, twilight Marty didn’t even have a season of quality starts here that low.

The only time the ghost of Schneider did it was his last season, where I think he only has 11 or 12 starts. His was like .273% that year lol.

The only consolation is both Schmid and Daws are under 40% quality starts also, but neither has started half the games Vitek has.

 

[Emperoreddy]

3 of the 4 goals against Calgary were bad, if not absolutely BRUTAL.

What big save did he make? That save between the third goal against (the one that wasn’t bad) before he let the absolutely deflating, KILLER game losing rebound out of his glove?

That game was worse than his 5 goal against games against Vancouver and Vegas this year, both of which were wins lol.

That God awful 2nd goal should have been a total back breaker, but the team battled back, and then he did what he has done all year and give up another back breaker

 

[Bleedred]

Doesn't he have some insanely bad stat again playoff teams? Like only one game above .900?

It was only one for a while, but the Colorado game the other night was another. And I think the Tampa game before the break he was exactly .900%.

He also stopped all 11 in relief against Carolina the last time we played there when Daws was pulled.

That’s actually the only relief appearance he had where he allowed fewer than 2 goals.

 

[Emperoreddy]

I’ve pointed this out before but we’ve dragged Vitek’s ass to victory quite a bit and that’s something bad teams do.


Goalies who have at least 2 more Wins than Quality Stars. (Goalies w/ min. of 4 wins).
View attachment 817343

Definition:
View attachment 817348

Vs (spoilers just for you!)

Spoiler: Goalies with at least 2 more QS than Wins

View attachment 817352View attachment 817353View attachment 817354

If people forget what this was like:
Cory Schneider
2014-15 26 Wins 41 Quality Starts
2015-16 27 Wins 40 Quality Starts

Spoiler: Goalies with only +1 difference at most

View attachment 817349View attachment 817350View attachment 817351

If people forget what this was like:
Vanecek
2022-23 33 Wins 32 Quality Starts

I assume you meant that's what good teams do?

 

[TheUnseenHand]

I wonder if there is a bit of a vicious cycle too between the skaters and the goalies on this team. Because it's not just VV that has sucked and given up massive softies.

I wonder if the skaters get so discouraged by a soft goal that they start dragging for a while, or playing a completely different game, while the goalies are so on edge because they know if they give up one goal the team is literally going to crumble. We have seen that time and time again. 1 goal against becomes 2 or 3 in a matter of minutes. And it's not generally terrible goals that follow the softie. It's the team utterly falling apart at the smallest sign of adversity and getting pinned in the zone for minutes at a time. That needs to be addressed too. We shouldn't get pinned in our own zone for 3 minutes after every goal against. If the team is collapsing because they are afraid of giving up another chance that will end up in another softie, the coach has to coach them out of that mentality.

 

[forceten]

Wow. You guys post a lot!

- goaltending is one major issue with this team but coaching is another. We aren’t ready for games, our system leads to breakdowns that are catastrophic, and our stars are being played in odd positions and mixing up lines too often. Goalies also suffer when they come here and improve when they leave so something Rogalski is doing isn’t working either.

- living in Raleigh I can tell you the canes weren’t much better than we were and in fact their goaltending has been as bad. The main difference now is that over the last few weeks they’ve righted the ship. We were only about 2-3 points behind them for an eternity. That’s widened significantly. They also play a much simpler and effective system that plays well to their roster. I’d argue our roster mirrors the canes a lot better now, with a mix of speed, skill, and lunchpail players as opposed to last year when it was heavier speed and skill.

- this team is not bad - it’s been pointed out already but having to be perfect every night and score a lot is tiring. We have a great roster and despite injuries have remained in the mix and should be about 8 points higher in the standings if not for horrendous games.

- mortgaging the future shortens the window - keep that in mind. When you have a window you have to maintain peak competitiveness, it’s not a given. Saros is better than Markstrom simply due to the 6 year age gap. I suspect the “right” trade is complex and one that addresses several needs for both teams. It likely includes Vanacek going out, and don’t be surprised to see him become a .905+ goalie elsewhere.

- they need to sign poulter to an NHL contract.

- it’s whalers night tonight so I think I might go red instead of black for my jersey

 

[Nocashstyle]

I wonder if there is a bit of a vicious cycle too between the skaters and the goalies on this team. Because it's not just VV that has sucked and given up massive softies.

I wonder if the skaters get so discouraged by a soft goal that they start dragging for a while, or playing a completely different game, while the goalies are so on edge because they know if they give up one goal the team is literally going to crumble. We have seen that time and time again. 1 goal against becomes 2 or 3 in a matter of minutes. And it's not generally terrible goals that follow the softie. It's the team utterly falling apart at the smallest sign of adversity and getting pinned in the zone for minutes at a time. That needs to be addressed too. We shouldn't get pinned in our own zone for 3 minutes after every goal against. If the team is collapsing because they are afraid of giving up another chance that will end up in another softie, the coach has to coach them out of that mentality.

I would be shocked if that’s not at least partially, if not all, true.

We, as spectators, for sure get discouraged by the softies. It’s difficult to imagine the players don’t too.

 

[NJDevs26]

The thing with Fitzgerald is that he’s very good at recognizing the team needs and addressing them.

All the fans realized we needed to sell our vets and get draft capital. Fitz traded Coleman, Greene, and Zajac and got us some nice picks.

All the fans realized we needed to improve the defense. Fitz went out and got Hamilton, Graves, Siegenthaler, and Marino.

All the fans realized we needed to move on from stagnating young players like Zacha and Smith. Fitz shipped them out for great returns.

All the fans realized we needed veteran leadership. Fitz went out and got Haula, Palat, and Smith.

All the fans realized we had been overdrafting forward but hadn’t drafted defensemen very well. Fitz spent 1st round picks on Mukhamadullin, Hughes, and Nemec in consecutive years.

All the fans realized we needed to get tougher and more physical. Fitz traded for Meier.

All the fans realized we needed better shooters. Fitz traded for Toffoli.

All the fans realized we needed an upgrade at goalie. Fitz brought in Bernier, Crawford, Gillies, Hammond, and Vanecek.

Given his long track record of being remarkably in touch with the strengths and weaknesses of this team and how active he’s been in addressing those areas, I find it ASTONISHINGLY difficult to believe he doesn’t see the coaching and goaltending issues that are so obvious to all of us.

The fact that there are half a dozen other teams in the league with goaltending situations as bad or worse than ours that also haven’t made a moves should tell you a lot about the quality of goaltenders available and the prices those teams are demanding.

Fitz also has a track record of patience...but patience is only a virtue until it turns into enabling.

He hasn't done one damn thing to shake the room up this year, and that's on him...waive Vitek, fire Lindy, hell fire Rogalski, make a different trade I don't care but he had to do something to show this kind of underachieving bullshit wasn't going to be tolerated and he's gone every bit as MIA as Joe Douglas did with the Jets. Although to be fair Rodgers is the GM with the Jets and Douglas is his assistant now, whereas Fitz is probably still the GM of the Devils with Jack (the reason we don't have a coaching change) as the assistant GM.

 

[Guttersniped]

I assume you meant that's what good teams do?

No! I think outside the box lol.

Yeah, I’ll fix that.

 

[Bleedred]

I wonder if there is a bit of a vicious cycle too between the skaters and the goalies on this team. Because it's not just VV that has sucked and given up massive softies.

I wonder if the skaters get so discouraged by a soft goal that they start dragging for a while, or playing a completely different game, while the goalies are so on edge because they know if they give up one goal the team is literally going to crumble. We have seen that time and time again. 1 goal against becomes 2 or 3 in a matter of minutes. And it's not generally terrible goals that follow the softie. It's the team utterly falling apart at the smallest sign of adversity and getting pinned in the zone for minutes at a time. That needs to be addressed too. We shouldn't get pinned in our own zone for 3 minutes after every goal against. If the team is collapsing because they are afraid of giving up another chance that will end up in another softie, the coach has to coach them out of that mentality.

I wonder if there is a bit of a vicious cycle too between the skaters and the goalies on this team. Because it's not just VV that has sucked and given up massive softies.

I wonder if the skaters get so discouraged by a soft goal that they start dragging for a while, or playing a completely different game, while the goalies are so on edge because they know if they give up one goal the team is literally going to crumble. We have seen that time and time again. 1 goal against becomes 2 or 3 in a matter of minutes. And it's not generally terrible goals that follow the softie. It's the team utterly falling apart at the smallest sign of adversity and getting pinned in the zone for minutes at a time. That needs to be addressed too. We shouldn't get pinned in our own zone for 3 minutes after every goal against. If the team is collapsing because they are afraid of giving up another chance that will end up in another softie, the coach has to coach them out of that mentality.

Players becoming deflated by softies is actually a thing. It’s happened before. All throughout history. It’s not surprising in the least.

Didn’t mean to quote you twice. I’m out walking lol.

 

[NjDevsRR]

Players becoming deflated by softies is actually a thing. It’s happened before. All throughout history. It’s not surprising in the least.

Millions of dates ruined by this phenomenon as well

 

[ZachaFlockaFlame]

Wow. You guys post a lot!

- goaltending is one major issue with this team but coaching is another. We aren’t ready for games, our system leads to breakdowns that are catastrophic, and our stars are being played in odd positions and mixing up lines too often. Goalies also suffer when they come here and improve when they leave so something Rogalski is doing isn’t working either.

- living in Raleigh I can tell you the canes weren’t much better than we were and in fact their goaltending has been as bad. The main difference now is that over the last few weeks they’ve righted the ship. We were only about 2-3 points behind them for an eternity. That’s widened significantly. They also play a much simpler and effective system that plays well to their roster. I’d argue our roster mirrors the canes a lot better now, with a mix of speed, skill, and lunchpail players as opposed to last year when it was heavier speed and skill.

- this team is not bad - it’s been pointed out already but having to be perfect every night and score a lot is tiring. We have a great roster and despite injuries have remained in the mix and should be about 8 points higher in the standings if not for horrendous games.

- mortgaging the future shortens the window - keep that in mind. When you have a window you have to maintain peak competitiveness, it’s not a given. Saros is better than Markstrom simply due to the 6 year age gap. I suspect the “right” trade is complex and one that addresses several needs for both teams. It likely includes Vanacek going out, and don’t be surprised to see him become a .905+ goalie elsewhere.

- they need to sign poulter to an NHL contract.

- it’s whalers night tonight so I think I might go red instead of black for my jersey

The reason I call them bad is because if it's not the goalies which has pretty damn frequent this year of shitting the bed, the team doesn't score or it's Lindy doing some stupid shit. They just can't seem to get out of their way this year which is a mark of a bad team. Roster wise, they're good. It just seems this isn't their year which is perfectly fine to admit. Also definitely, enjoy tonight. Away games are some of the best ones lol

 

[NjDevsRR]

@Guttersniped will appreciate the Bastian lore at the end

 

[Billdo]

Players becoming deflated by softies is actually a thing. It’s happened before. All throughout history. It’s not surprising in the least.

Didn’t mean to quote you twice. I’m out walking lol.

Didn't Ruff admit to this after Thursdays game? I'm pretty sure I saw something along the lines of him saying "when tough goals go in it's deflating, you get deflated." Now imagine knowing how well you play in front of him, that more often than literally every single other goalie in the league, you're going to have bad goals go in. It's gotta suck.

 

[ZachaFlockaFlame]

Players becoming deflated by softies is actually a thing. It’s happened before. All throughout history. It’s not surprising in the least.

Didn’t mean to quote you twice. I’m out walking lol.

Definitely a thing, my only rebuttal is that if it happens this often you'd think the coaching staff or players would back check a bit harder but it's like they're just like they're expecting it to happen so it does if that makes sense lol. Also apparently it would kill Vitek to have an absurd game after allowing a shit early goal but it's just not on the menu

 

[Guttersniped]

Wow. You guys post a lot!

- goaltending is one major issue with this team but coaching is another. We aren’t ready for games, our system leads to breakdowns that are catastrophic, and our stars are being played in odd positions and mixing up lines too often. Goalies also suffer when they come here and improve when they leave so something Rogalski is doing isn’t working either.

- living in Raleigh I can tell you the canes weren’t much better than we were and in fact their goaltending has been as bad. The main difference now is that over the last few weeks they’ve righted the ship. We were only about 2-3 points behind them for an eternity. That’s widened significantly. They also play a much simpler and effective system that plays well to their roster. I’d argue our roster mirrors the canes a lot better now, with a mix of speed, skill, and lunchpail players as opposed to last year when it was heavier speed and skill.

- this team is not bad - it’s been pointed out already but having to be perfect every night and score a lot is tiring. We have a great roster and despite injuries have remained in the mix and should be about 8 points higher in the standings if not for horrendous games.

- mortgaging the future shortens the window - keep that in mind. When you have a window you have to maintain peak competitiveness, it’s not a given. Saros is better than Markstrom simply due to the 6 year age gap. I suspect the “right” trade is complex and one that addresses several needs for both teams. It likely includes Vanacek going out, and don’t be surprised to see him become a .905+ goalie elsewhere.

- they need to sign poulter to an NHL contract.

- it’s whalers night tonight so I think I might go red instead of black for my jersey

We got worse before the break while the Canes had arguably risen to the top of the East. They’re playing ridiculously well now, definitely a top contender after a bit of a rocky start (comparatively, for them).

We’re a bubble team, every year that happens to some teams. GMs typically don’t get teams out of the bubble through trades. More coaches get fired than big trades.

Before anyone says it, Ruff wasn’t going to get fired when a bunch of guys were injured.

 

[HughesCorporation]

where have all the 6'-8" Nordic butterfly goalies gone???

America is hogging up all the goaltending

 

[HughesCorporation]

The Devils' record when they score X number of goals, overtime removed, all OT games count as ties, empty net goals don't count either which means this will take me way longer than I want it to:

0 goals: 0-2-0
1 goal: 0-4-0
2 goals: 1-6-2
3 goals: 5-8-4
4 goals: 4-2-1
5 goals: 2-0-1
6 goals: 3-0-0
7 goals: 1-0-0

The Devils are 1-12-2 when scoring fewer than 3 goals.

One other thing I am convinced of but have not gotten a chance to examine is that the Devils slow starts are both a result of poor play and bad luck, but when this team gets to score the first goal in 50% of games, they will look substantially better than they have over this last stretch where they once again almost never score first.

have to performed this exercise with other teams? just wondering what the leagues record is?