Devils team discussion (news, notes and speculation) - 2023-24 season part III

Status
Not open for further replies.

PizzaAndPucks

New Jersey Angels diehard
Nov 29, 2018
2,959
4,729
The goaltending carousel is just one of the major issues for this season. Atleast Vitek has strung together some wins and a somewhat respectable win loss record. Before last night's game Dawes put up 4 straight really good starts. At some point you have to blame the players infront for just simply not bringing it every game. Holtz , Nemec , Bratt , Dawes , and a few others game have really grown this season alone. It's really guys like Jack , Nico , Mercer , Meier , Siegenthaler , Marino , Bahl etc that aren't pulling their weight. Meier and Mercer are killing our scoring depth that was supposed to be an overwhelming strength heading into this season.

I still think we lost some good players who should still be here. Fitz shouldn't of jumped the gun in retrospect but this franchise really needed a season to be proud of and grow from. Too may core players are simply not elevating their game enough.
 

Devils Army

Rebuild Over.
Feb 3, 2014
3,894
901
New Jersey
if youre going to make Jack stick on the wing and you insist on needing to put him with a responsible center, just put him with Bratt and Nico and form a super line
I don't hate the idea but what does the rest of the line up look like? Can't even make a group i like with the rest....

Palat-Haula-Lazar (shutdown group?)
Timo-Mercer-Toff (would get caved in)
Bastian-Nosek-Holtz (lol even i cant find a spot for Holtz)
 

SteveCangialosi123

Registered User
Feb 17, 2012
29,457
52,849
NJ
How do you put Miller's name in there when he doesn't kill penalties both Graves and Severson did and he's the 8th Dman used this season in ATOI. Miller is the definition of 7th Dman.

Miller is a significant downgrade from Severson to say otherwise is ridiculous.

That's why a team was willing to pay Severson a huge contract and Miller was picked up for nothing. Severson averaged 20+ minutes nearly his entire career, Millers has never been a 20 minute Dman in his career .. But it doesn't even matter because Smith is getting more of Severson's minutes than Miller has.

And the fact that Miller, Luke and Nemec don't really kill penalties is why Smith is being leaned on the way he has and why Bahl went from :52 to 1:56 average PK.. Hatakka with little NHL experience averaged nearly double the time on the PK in his 7 game stint than Miller has.
Yeah, Miller is a relatively minor downgrade from Severson. He’s been more than fine in his role, exactly what we needed as a stop gap. Fun fact: Damon Severson has been a plus player one time in his entire career (+9), and it came in a record setting regular season for the Devils. Colin Miller is a +11 on a mediocre team. Wow!

Nemec/Miller does more than replace Severson, they represent an improvement.
 

Billdo

Registered User
Oct 28, 2008
19,923
17,257
Ocean County
Yeah, Miller is a relatively minor downgrade from Severson. He’s been more than fine in his role, exactly what we needed as a stop gap. Fun fact: Damon Severson has been a plus player one time in his entire career (+9), and it came in a record setting regular season for the Devils. Colin Miller is a +11 on a mediocre team. Wow!

Nemec/Miller does more than replace Severson, they represent an improvement.
Severson was on absolutely horrific teams and plus minus is an irrelevant stat.
 

Rhodes 81

grit those teeth
Nov 22, 2008
16,371
6,371
Atlanta
I would personally move on from Ruff at season's end, but I really don't think it's as much of a slam dunk as some here want to believe it is. He's getting slammed right now for riding Daws too much but he got slammed earlier in the year for continuing to rotate between Schmid and Vanecek. He gets slammed for the system but no credit for the perceived change. He gets slammed for playing Smith but the alternative has usually been mediocre players like Foote and DeSimone (playing smith over Miller or Bahl if that happens is bad). He gets slammed for his usage of Meier but there's plenty of reason to believe Meier is not capable of playing the way they would want him to right now. He gets slammed for inconsistency but there's been no consistency with the personnel available to him for most of the year. People seem to think he's lost the team but there really isn't anything aside from blatant conjecture to support that.

The only common complaints with Ruff that I think there's no arguing is that Holtz earned more run earlier in the year (though I think he's been quite inconsistent recently) and that there are times he could probably be more proactive with timeouts (but it may be an organizational thing to save those for challenges, and this is also not a huge deal). Everything else is something I could see the organization simply not agreeing with public perception. I hope I'm wrong, but objectively the built in excuses for this performance are numerous.
 

bossram

Registered User
Sep 25, 2013
16,664
17,079
Victoria
Yeah, Miller is a relatively minor downgrade from Severson. He’s been more than fine in his role, exactly what we needed as a stop gap. Fun fact: Damon Severson has been a plus player one time in his entire career (+9), and it came in a record setting regular season for the Devils. Colin Miller is a +11 on a mediocre team. Wow!

Nemec/Miller does more than replace Severson, they represent an improvement.
Yeah, it is extremely hard to square the "blueline is a big problem, we would have been better with Graves/Sevo" argument when they've both been abjectly awful this season, and their replacements (Miller and Nemec) have in one case been perfectly fine, and in the other, a revelation.

Like, if you have a cavalcade of injuries on the blueline all at once, including your nominal 1D being out for the season, it will suck no matter what. Graves wasn't going to save the season in that situation.
 

Devils Army

Rebuild Over.
Feb 3, 2014
3,894
901
New Jersey
More thoughts: Our PP unit has 1 plus shooter in Toffoli and is typically poor in puck retrievals following shots. Last night we actually reset after good looks a few times which even seemed to surprise Bill/Dano if you listen back. Add Nemec and Timo/Holtz and see what happens?

Also early in the year it seemed incredibly free flowing and positionless with guys moving around a lot and non umbrella style formations. But lately its just been square peg round hole.
 

JimEIV

Registered User
Feb 19, 2003
67,701
30,526
Yeah, Miller is a relatively minor downgrade from Severson. He’s been more than fine in his role, exactly what we needed as a stop gap. Fun fact: Damon Severson has been a plus player one time in his entire career (+9), and it came in a record setting regular season for the Devils. Colin Miller is a +11 on a mediocre team. Wow!

Nemec/Miller does more than replace Severson, they represent an improvement.
Fun fact: Severson played on an above .500 team twice in his 10 year career.

Easy to be a plus player playing softer minutes
 

Zajacs Bowl Cut

Lets Go Baby
Nov 6, 2005
72,978
47,130
PA
Fun fact: Severson played on an above .500 team twice in his 10 year career.

Easy to be a plus player playing softer minutes

Nemec this season as a 19 (now 20) year old has been better than Severson's best season in NJ

I don't know why we keep harping on Severson. His time here was up, and we should be happy we aren't saddled with that contract.
 

bossram

Registered User
Sep 25, 2013
16,664
17,079
Victoria
I would personally move on from Ruff at season's end, but I really don't think it's as much of a slam dunk as some here want to believe it is. He's getting slammed right now for riding Daws too much but he got slammed earlier in the year for continuing to rotate between Schmid and Vanecek. He gets slammed for the system but no credit for the perceived change. He gets slammed for playing Smith but the alternative has usually been mediocre players like Foote and DeSimone (playing smith over Miller or Bahl if that happens is bad). He gets slammed for his usage of Meier but there's plenty of reason to believe Meier is not capable of playing the way they would want him to right now. He gets slammed for inconsistency but there's been no consistency with the personnel available to him for most of the year. People seem to think he's lost the team but there really isn't anything aside from blatant conjecture to support that.

The only common complaints with Ruff that I think there's no arguing is that Holtz earned more run earlier in the year (though I think he's been quite inconsistent recently) and that there are times he could probably be more proactive with timeouts (but it may be an organizational thing to save those for challenges, and this is also not a huge deal). Everything else is something I could see the organization simply not agreeing with public perception. I hope I'm wrong, but objectively the built in excuses for this performance are numerous.
My biggest issues with Ruff are 1. His systems, 2. lack of preparation, and 3. handling of goalies, in that order.

He absolutely gets zero credit for changing the system. He should never have been running this in the first place, and the changes have come far too late. We've seen his preparation issues, and for me, the Rangers series was just a critical fail in that regard.

He's taken this team as far as it can go with him. His biggest contributions were letting guys like Jack, Luke, Nemec, Bratt develop and expand their skills. Now he's done that and time move on with a coach that can polish the team into a real contender.
 

SteveCangialosi123

Registered User
Feb 17, 2012
29,457
52,849
NJ
Severson was on absolutely horrific teams and plus minus is an irrelevant stat.
Every other post in this forum is about how awful this team is and how bad the defense is in particular. We have a -24 player on this team, you bet your ass being a +11 is worth mentioning.

I know the flaws of the stat, have repeated them as nauseam over the years. You’re free to post Miller’s corsi or GAR or any number of stats that will show he hasn’t been much of a downgrade from Severson this year.
 

Bad Goalie

Registered User
Jan 2, 2014
20,476
9,564
Highly doubt it, it'll probably be Daws again and Poulter gets the Habs
It likely won't really matter. The 22-yr-old kid has played 37 games in 2 years as an AHL backup/injury replacement. He played this season as the back up for both Schmid and Daws whenever they have been here. He was the better of Schmid when he came down this last time because Akira was a mess. Akira got 12 starts and Issac only 7. Isaac won 6 of his 7 and Schmid went 3-5-4.

When Daws returned to action this season he was immediately called up o NJ on 12/1. He was back in Utica on 12/8 and won the game that night won 4-1. Poulter won the next game 3-1.

Then Dineen started Kallgren and he was injured after 6:50. Poulter relived the rest of the way and the Comets won 4-1 on 12/10.

Daws played the next one on 12/15 and lost 4-1. Poulter followed the loss with 2-0 shutout of Syracuseon 12/16.

Daws was recalled on 12/17 and returned on 12/19. He lost the Comets next game on 12/23 3-2.

Nico was recalle on 12/27 and has not returned. Daws got the 1st statr upon his arrival and always got the next game up if he was in town. Poulter was undestandably #2, but he was 3-0 in his games when Daws was here.

There has been something about a young goalie's response to a call-up to NJ. In the course of 3 seasons Schmid has been called up and had some good games but it ever lasted. The same was true for Daws in his 1st season so much that NJ never even gave him look in season 2. Lindy ran him out there night after night in his 3rd season, a season that didn't start until December after major hip surgery and no training camp, as long as he played lights out. He had a down time and it was Vitek night after night again. Now it's been Nico in a ridiculous amount of games in a short span because he played well. He is fagged out so let's run out the next kid.

The pressure put upon these guys to win on a team expected to excel in the NHL hierarchy has been incredible and they have both broken and returned to Utica only to see it continue.

Poulter, undrafted, has proven himself to be a worthy AHL keeper in his short AHL career. He has impressed and I have been his biggest backer. I was happy for him when NJ announced his signing. A 2-yr contract that in reality is only a 1-yr since this season is 2 mo.s from being over. It appears to be another of TF's stop gap efforts to keep his free falling Devils from missing the playoffs without losing any of his core in a trade.

Isaac went out on the ice in Utica knowing he was going to sign an NHL contract the next morning and was a nervous wreck. He pitched his worst effort of the season surrendering 4 goals on 15 shots and receiving an early exit 3:43 into the 2nd period in a 6-2 loss to the Rochester Americans.
It was obvious in warmups that he was not right and the game proved it to be such. His next game he was back to his normal self.

So, instead of letting him take over the #1 AHL role, at least for this season, and then let camp next year sort out his place on the NJ ladder, he gets promoted exactly 1 week later. I believe the only reason for the signing is that NJ had no one to trust beyond Daws and thus, sign the kid down there and let's see if he and Daws can handle the rest of the season so we don't have to make a ridiculous deal costing us pieces of the core.

If this kid doesn't stand on hjs head and cause the fan base do wet their shorts, he will be lambasted like all the rest. I don't think he is NHL ready at this point. I hope I'm wrong. I also, as Bleed Red would say, doesn't get infected by Rogalski. He has been the coach for both Daws and Schmid as well a Vitek and the rest of the keepers passing through on the assembly line since the '20-21 season. That hasn't been a pretty picture by any means and he has to be looked at as part of the issue..

I wish Isaac the very best and hope he is an answer, but I would not expect it to be so. I have several crows who visit my woods out back and raid our bird feeders daily and I would gladly eat one of them if I'm not exactly correct. I hope my thoughts are purely paranoia constructed by my own mind.

Go Daws and Poulter. Be an answer of some positive note.
 

McDuffz88

Smoke the Keefe
Sep 18, 2019
1,626
2,233
I can def see ruff still being the coach going into next season. injuries lack of goalie being the reasons he wont be let go.


even if he is or isn't this team isn't going anywhere if jack doesnt stay healthy for a full year. so i dont know what he has to do in the summer but he has to change something up. missing 15 games then coming back maybe too soon? and being clearly hampered isn't helping things.
Are we really that dependant on Jack Hughes that if he isn't 100% healthy all year we aren't doing anything? No team should be having their success riding on one player. If we are we are a completely flawed team. We have plenty of talent there's no reason we can't be a playoff team without Jack. That's an absurd statement.
 

bossram

Registered User
Sep 25, 2013
16,664
17,079
Victoria

*sigh*

Another Ruff masterclass. Yes, this will certainly maximize Timo Meier. And Using Smith in a shutdown role will go wonderfully.

That said, I am intrigued in a Hughes-Nemec pairing. It's something I want to see (as general interest for the future of the club).

Are we really that dependant on Jack Hughes that if he isn't 100% healthy all year we aren't doing anything? No team should be having their success riding on one player. If we are we are a completely flawed team. We have plenty of talent there's no reason we can't be a playoff team without Jack. That's an absurd statement.
I'd argue a lot of teams, contenders included, are also pretty dependent on a single player for success.

Where is TB this year without Kucherov? What is COL without Mackinnon? What is EDM without McDavid? VAN is a mediocre team without Quinn on the ice. What is TOR this season without Matthews?
 

hidek91

Registered User
Jan 13, 2014
1,823
1,471
Warsaw, PL
Blaming Bratt and timo contracts is certainly a choice.

Graves has looked like ass in Pittsburgh and golden boy severson has been healthy scratched a few times on a dog shit Columbus team.
neither of them were taking a discount or a shorter than 5 year deal at what point you let Nemec and Luke rot away until they are 24 years old

Let’s not sign the 40 goal scorer and 80 point winger for Ryan graves and Damon severson who both got dog walked all series against Carolina
You were not getting Meier's past in this deal but you were getting the worse years of power forward's career.

Agree that situation with defense literally couldn't have been solved by matching either Graves or Severson but the reality is:
- Fitz tried to go easy, flash and expensive (costing draft picks, prospects and cap space) route in acquiring Palat, Hamilton and Meier (I don't count Toffoli here as it's 1 year commitment but not having cheap Shara hurts a bit),
- Because of the above, McLeod's saga and having to make space for L. Hughes & Nemec, he's forced to fill the bottom six with super cheap options like Tierney or Nosek and our defense includes on nightly basis #7D in Bahl and Smith, Colin Miller who generally couldn't beat the former two for a spot and L. Hughes who's still quite weak defensively.

What puzzles me is that some posters here suggest that Fitz should double down on that strategy and trade MORE cheap pieces (Holtz or 1st or Mercer (!)) to provide short-term goaltending solution: a goalie who would have to play behind the defence that has 50% of its personnel consisting of #7D and a goalie who would force us to replace Holtz or Mercer with another cheap vet like Tierney (and without first round picks, we would have to continue doing that in future years).

What I'd do:
- Do nothing on goalie front, unless you can gamble 3rd round pick or less for out-of-the-box solution,
- Trade Toffoli away (hopefully for 1st), put Holtz in Toffoli's place,
- If somebody wants Meier, give him away for free,
- Draft and develop depth/core pieces.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Ad

Upcoming events

Ad

Ad