Devils team discussion (news, notes and speculation) - 2023-24 season begins!

[Patrik26]

Confirmed we're getting shut out tonight

They'll only need 1, but Ovi will wake up tonight as well.

 

[billingtons ghost]

Good to hear, I currently have Wheeler but he’s awful and I can’t stand to even see him on my roster anymore (good news to hear for you devil fans hahaha) — Thanks for the reply’s

I think it's still early

I'm one more 4 point night from Jack away from starting a "Can McDavid be the 2nd best player in the league behind Jack" thread on the mainboard

Omg.. Don't do it

 

[Nubmer6]

Omg.. Don't do it

This is what we get for leaving @Cheddabombs unattended.

 

[Forge]

Knock off the trolling, name calling and lifting posts from other boards, this is DEVILS team discussion, not personal grievance and poster dunk discussion

But they so often deserve it!

 

[Incharge1976]

Hey guys, for my fashionista fantasy league, I know Hughes has gotten a few points or whatever those are called but I’m really concerned about this jacket he’s wearing. I’ve dropped Hughes to pick up Mercer.

I don’t even want advice I’m just telling you about a Hughes weakness out of now where because I’m a fun person.

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Are white Keds mandatory? lol

 

[devilsfan950003]

looked to me like Nate's best game so far last night. I love his tenaciousness on the boards.
When Nosek is healthy again I'm having a hard time deciding who should come out. I want his f/o ability but I really like the way Lazar is playing too. Hopefully we're faced with that decision and everyone else is healthy.

Good problems.

Watched Haula closely and couldn't spot any wincing or discomfort. I really hope he doesn't have something nagging

I'm OK sitting Nosek and Tierney. Lazar is putting in the work. Keep here there.

 

[JimEIV]

I don't think there was ever a time where Jack didn't belong in the league. Sure he had struggles in year 1, but those struggles highlighted what he had to work on. And maybe for a less confident player(Kakko?) that year season could have hurt his development. But he does not lack for confidence, and in fact he is pretty defiant in the face of struggles.

Year 2 I just don't see an argument for him not belonging in the league. Aside from "he's a #1 pick and should be producing more" which I don't think is a great argument.

Jack was bad in year 2 just not as horrific as year 1.

He was being force fed minutes and was not only producing little to nothing but he was often a liability.

Jack led the league among forwards in giveaways in his second year. 4th overall behind 3 Dmen. He had twice as many giveaways as the next forward on the team. They were funnelling the offense through him and he had a lot of touches so inevitably he was going to have a high number of giveaways but leading the league? Whatever you think about the stat leading the league in it could never be a good thing. He

Also had more corsi events Against happened with him on the ice than any other forward forward on the team. Sharangovich was horrific in that regard but Jack was two steps worse

15 out 56 games he had one shot or less while playing 19 minutes a night... that's 27% of his season.

He also went on long streaks of producing nothing while giving the puck away more than any other forward in the league. 35 of 56 games he had zero points. Games 20 through 37 of his sophomore year he had 4 points in 16 games while averaging 18:05 a night.

1 shot, no points giving the puck away more than anyone in the league?

Any other player would have played themselves out of the lineup with this performance. Chalk it up to learning fine but don't make believe that it wasn't bad.

 

[Louskoolaid89]

Jack was bad in year 2 just not as horrific as year 1.

He was being force fed minutes and was not only producing little to nothing but he was often a liability.

Jack led the league among forwards in giveaways in his second year. 4th overall behind 3 Dmen. He had twice as many giveaways as the next forward on the team. They were funnelling the offense through him and he had a lot of touches so inevitably he was going to have a high number of giveaways but leading the league? Whatever you think about the stat leading the league in it could never be a good thing. He

Also had more corsi events Against happened with him on the ice than any other forward forward on the team. Sharangovich was horrific in that regard but Jack was two steps worse

15 out 56 games he had one shot or less while playing 19 minutes a night... that's 27% of his season.

He also went on long streaks of producing nothing while giving the puck away more than any other forward in the league. 35 of 56 games he had zero points. Games 20 through 37 of his sophomore year he had 4 points in 16 games while averaging 18:05 a night.

1 shot, no points giving the puck away more than anyone in the league?

Any other player would have played themselves out of the lineup with this performance. Chalk it up to learning fine but don't make believe that it wasn't bad.

Playing against men for the 1st time. Advantage to Kakko!

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

lol this man really did not bring up "giveaways" did he

Take a look at the leaders in "giveaways" from last season:

Pastrnak
Malkin
Draisaitl
Panarin
Karlsson
Kucherov
Marner

its almost like when you have the puck a lot, you will turn it over a lot?

 

[devilsblood]

I def agree with your year 2.

With perfect hindsight I think him missing year 1 would've been fine if only bc of the injury to his tiny 18yr old body.

That could've happened in the A too, though, where guys are less policed and might want to make a name for themselves, Soo...

I think if he didn’t play in the NHL year 1 it most likely would have been college.

Would it have been better for his development? I dunno. I mean how much better could he possibly be at 22?

 

[Triumph]

Jack was bad in year 2 just not as horrific as year 1.

He was being force fed minutes and was not only producing little to nothing but he was often a liability.

Jack led the league among forwards in giveaways in his second year. 4th overall behind 3 Dmen. He had twice as many giveaways as the next forward on the team. They were funnelling the offense through him and he had a lot of touches so inevitably he was going to have a high number of giveaways but leading the league? Whatever you think about the stat leading the league in it could never be a good thing. He

Also had more corsi events Against happened with him on the ice than any other forward forward on the team. Sharangovich was horrific in that regard but Jack was two steps worse

15 out 56 games he had one shot or less while playing 19 minutes a night... that's 27% of his season.

He also went on long streaks of producing nothing while giving the puck away more than any other forward in the league. 35 of 56 games he had zero points. Games 20 through 37 of his sophomore year he had 4 points in 16 games while averaging 18:05 a night.

1 shot, no points giving the puck away more than anyone in the league?

Any other player would have played themselves out of the lineup with this performance. Chalk it up to learning fine but don't make believe that it wasn't bad.

lol. lolol. Just walk away from this. You already claimed it wasn't the point of what you said, but you are just so wrong about this and I don't have the time right now to go through this point by point.

Bullet points -

A: Giveaways don't matter. They are kept incredibly inconsistently and so they're not a real statistic. Jack Hughes in 2020-21 is credited for giving the puck away 56 times at home and 20 times on the road.

B: Hughes had the best defensive numbers on the team. He had the fewest Corsi events against of any forward on the 2020-21 Devils (minimum 100 minutes).

Just walk away from the bad point you made, refused to defend, insulted me, and then came back with your misreading and nonsense arguments.

 

[TrufleShufle]

Whether or not he belonged didn't matter, he was dominating everywhere he played, if this, 23-24 season, was his first year in the league he would probably look like he did a couple years back. Jack's biggest thing he needed was learning what wouldn't work in the NHL and start trimming the fat on certain moves and tendencies. As soon as he figured out what wouldn't work here and what did, he went full bore with what did and fine tuned the things that didn't.

So again, he is one of the few cases where throwing a player to the wolves and letting him screw up made perfect sense and worked out amazing.

That is also why I'm 100% ok with Luke's screw ups, I will point them out, but know they are for his better.

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

I think if he didn’t play in the NHL year 1 it most likely would have been college.

Would it have been better for his development? I dunno. I mean how much better could he possibly be at 22?

I like this point and I agree. Yeah, so say he goes to college for a year at 18 and tears it up. How does that change anything for right now and beyond? He needed to learn on the fly and thats what he did.

We were never going to be good that year anyways. So wouldn't you care about him being better longterm?

 

[FascinationStreet]

I like both Lazar and Nate better than Nosek. Having the left handed faceoff option on that line is really the only reason I could see for putting in Nosek and I'm not putting in a worse player for that reason.

Probably right. I have a hunch Nosek starts to come on stronger as the season goes on.
Saw him a little in Boston and he had some real nice truculence

 

[devilsblood]

So again, he is one of the few cases where throwing a player to the wolves and letting him screw up made perfect sense and worked out amazing.
.

And this is where you have to factor in a kids mindset. Jack has so much swagger that he could fight through that tough season.

I actually think it could have been a negative if he went and lived the hot shot life dominating college.

 

[JimEIV]

I think if he didn’t play in the NHL year 1 it most likely would have been college.

Would it have been better for his development? I dunno. I mean how much better could he possibly be at 22?

Yes he should have went to the NCAA for year. Again, perhaps two. He literally missed a 1/4 of his rookie season with injury because his body wasn't ready for the NHL are we just going to brush that under the rug?

How much better could he have been? Probably no better at all....but you would've gotten a much better product out of that ELC than we did.

 

[MasterofGrond]

Different development routes are better for different players. My read of Jack is that he is a rabid competitor. Look how he competes on the ice. He doesn't just want to win, he wants to win and for the other guy to know it was him, personally, that sunk you.

Do you want that guy going to style on college kids? Or taking his NHL lumps? Absolutely using the benefit of hindsight, but I think the right call was made.

Plus his learning curve helped hook us up with Luke, so, why be mad?

 

[devilsblood]

Probably right. I have a hunch Nosek starts to come on stronger as the season goes on.
Saw him a little in Boston and he had some real nice truculence

Uh what is this word mean?

But yeah I think Nosek probably proves to be a pretty solid 4th liner…..which makes him a perfect candidate for lead whipping boy.

 

[MasterofGrond]

Yes he should have went to the NCAA for year. Again, perhaps two. He literally missed a 1/4 of his rookie season with injury because his body wasn't ready for the NHL are we just going to brush that under the rug?

How much better could he have been? Probably no better at all....but you would've gotten a much better product out of that ELC than we did.

Yeah and then we get an ELC year last year, which maybe we're better but maybe we sign a trash UFA deal.

We definitely don't have Jack at 8M right now if he signed that deal halfway through last year rather than the year before.

 

[devilsblood]

Yes he should have went to the NCAA for year. Again, perhaps two. He literally missed a 1/4 of his rookie season with injury because his body wasn't ready for the NHL are we just going to brush that under the rug?

How much better could he have been? Probably no better at all....but you would've gotten a much better product out of that ELC than we did.

But then does he sign such a favorable long term deal?

I can see the argument for year 1. Not year 2.

But it seems like such a “who cares”argument right now.

 

[JimEIV]

lol this man really did not bring up "giveaways" did he

Take a look at the leaders in "giveaways" from last season:

Pastrnak
Malkin
Draisaitl
Panarin
Karlsson
Kucherov
Marner

its almost like when you have the puck a lot, you will turn it over a lot?

Those guys score Jack was not. There in lies the problem. .55 ppg while leading the league in giveaways is ass.

 

[Guadana]

I have to say it's surprising that Kakko hasn't taken off. You'd expect a solid, 1st/2nd line type from him, 60-70 pts. I hope it works out for him.

Hughes was definitely a baby deer in his first season but by the second, he was already at what, .6 ppg? As a teenager. And then the year after, cut short by injury, he was over ppg. Then the year after that he set the team points record.

Its rangers. Kakko wasnt the first LH winger who didnt pan out there, he isnt the latest one.

 

[TrufleShufle]

Yes he should have went to the NCAA for year. Again, perhaps two. He literally missed a 1/4 of his rookie season with injury because his body wasn't ready for the NHL are we just going to brush that under the rug?

How much better could he have been? Probably no better at all....but you would've gotten a much better product out of that ELC than we did.

Would you rather a better product out of the ELC or this elite player we have now locked up for an insane contract? This is ignoring the "perhaps two" you threw in there again, but I know how sensitive it made you last time to point that out and how ridiculous it was, so I won't bring it up......

 

[Cheddabombs]

Lol who cares, Jack has 14 points in 5 games now

 

[MasterofGrond]

Why even litigate the Jack thing (other than the obvious, "it's Jim")?

It's not like the Devils have a pattern of behavior rushing prospects that we're discussing here. Two years of college for Luke, 2+ for Seamus. Nemec went right back to the AHL so we could play Brendan goddamn Smith this year, if anything we've been TOO patient with Holtz, etc.

They thought Jack was ready, or they thought he wasn't but it was best for his development. And I think it's basically impossible to argue against the result we're seeing on a nightly basis.