Devils team discussion (news, notes and speculation) - 2022-23 season thread part III

[BostonDevil]

I like the attempt made here with the lines. Nothing is going to be perfect.

 

[Bleedred]

This post made me check on Jack's ice time...to my surprise he's only 56th in the league among forwards in Avg time one ice. Nico is 38th.

NHL Stats

The official source for NHL Stats including skaters, goalies, teams stats and more.

www.nhl.com

I think it's been the last 3 games or so that he's really exploding in ice time.

ACTUALLY, he didn't play as much as I thought last game, but played over 22 minutes against the Rangers and 26:13 against the Islanders. That was the record long shift game.

He was down below 20 in the two games before that Islanders game though.

 

[JimEIV]

I think it's been the last 3 games or so that he's really exploding in ice time.

ACTUALLY, he didn't play as much as I thought last game, but played over 22 minutes against the Rangers and 26:13 against the Islanders. That was the record long shift game.

He was down below 20 in the two games before that Islanders game though.

Looking at his game logs I think they are doing a good job managing his time. He's got a bunch of 16/17 minute games to go along with 20+ games.
I don't know if it's management or circumstances but there seems to be some pullback in some of his games this season.

Jack Hughes 2022-23 Game Log | Hockey-Reference.com

Gamelogs for Jack Hughes for 2022-23

www.hockey-reference.com

 

[NJDfan86]

Score in the NHL? I'm not sure he can even get shots off in the NHL. I'm not sure he can play at all at this level.

And I'll say it again, McLeod has a higher assist/60 then Hughes this year. Guys trashing McLeod as a player while trying to shoe horn Holtz onto the top line is funny.

Your ability to take /60 rate stats to argue that someone is better or good at something is really a sight to behold.

 

[Rhodes 81]

Looking at his game logs I think they are doing a good job managing his time. He's got a bunch of 16/17 minute games to go along with 20+ games.
I don't know if it's management or circumstances but there seems to be some pullback in some of his games this season.

Jack Hughes 2022-23 Game Log | Hockey-Reference.com

Gamelogs for Jack Hughes for 2022-23

www.hockey-reference.com

Makes sense that we play him more when we need a goal and less when defending a lead, given the type of player he is. The 7 minute shift was silly and headline grabbing, but I think they've done a good job keeping everyone fresh until these last few games where they've shortened the bench.

 

[devilsblood]

Your ability to take /60 rate stats to argue that someone is better or good at something is really a sight to behold.

Per 60 rates is where the stat geek rubber meets the road.

But I'm no one trick pony. Over the last 3 season McLeod is 6th on the team in 5v5 points. Which isn't bad considering he's been on for the 2nd most defensive faceoffs over that span.......in the entire league!! Top 10 in defensive faceoff %.

He's taken 300 more dz faceoffs then Nico who is second on the team.

He's taken nearly 300 less oz faceoffs then Hughes, while taking 550 more dz faceoffs.

It might get lost in the fact that Wood scores most of the goals, but when we talk about our 4th line as being the best in the league, we do need to acknowledge McLeod centers that line.

 

[Camille the Eel]

I don't believe Foote and Bastain play similar games at all.

What do you think then of Foote's potential and development? I've not seen enough to know much. Is his future in the NHL? Or is he more borderline in your view, assuming you've got a take on him.

 

[devilsblood]

What do you think then of Foote's potential and development? I've not seen enough to know much. Is his future in the NHL? Or is he more borderline in your view, assuming you've got a take on him.

I can’t say i know for sure but i thought foote was playing more of a checking line role in utica Last year at least.

Don’t think he is as aggressive as Bastian though. Or as good a skater.

 

[Whaddagoal]

Just seems to me the shuffle ruins more lines than does good. That 4th is going to get Zero time, the 3rd line looks disjointed to me and we took goal scoring out of the top 6.

Lets see if Lindy is doing the 5 min 4th line again.

I fundementally agree Mercer is more talented for a possible top 6 role, but somehow Zetterlund does really well up there. Mercer will maybe get his chance later or next year as he matures more. He is playing well right now, took him a bit to settle in this season but he looks good again.

 

[My3Sons]

Boq has been a disappointment this year in my eyes. I thought he had shown signs in the past, and was hoping for a continued upward trajectory towards being a solid 3rd liner.

Unfortunately it hasn't happened. Yet anyways, he has had similar slow starts the past 2 years.

Shara is in the same boat to me. Higher expectations then for Boq, but he's underperformed. And I mean that beyond point production.

Shara probably got minimal sleep for two months and since the baby may not be sleeping at all. Do you have any idea how hard it is to grip the stick when your hands are covered in vomit and poop residue?

 

[SteveCangialosi123]

 

[ChicksDigTheTrap]

If they want to try Holtz in the top 6 then the lineup should be this. Haula needs to be on that line to cover up for Holtz skating and D deficiencies.

Tatar Hischier Bratt
Haula Hughes Holtz
Sharangovich Boqvist Zetterlund
Wood McLeod Insert Anyone

When Palat is back:

Tatar Hischier Bratt
Palat Hughes Holtz
Sharangovich Haula Zetterlund
Wood McLeod Boq/Bastian

 

[NjDevsRR]

View attachment 621908

LMFAO, oops. How did I manage that.

 

[OmNomNom]

i'm still gonna crack haula jokes till he scores a few more lol

 

[BostonDevil]

Makes sense that we play him more when we need a goal and less when defending a lead, given the type of player he is. The 7 minute shift was silly and headline grabbing, but I think they've done a good job keeping everyone fresh until these last few games where they've shortened the bench.

No PK time either so we can thank Smith for keeping Jack fresh.

 

[NJDfan86]

Per 60 rates is where the stat geek rubber meets the road.

But I'm no one trick pony. Over the last 3 season McLeod is 6th on the team in 5v5 points. Which isn't bad considering he's been on for the 2nd most defensive faceoffs over that span.......in the entire league!! Top 10 in defensive faceoff %.

He's taken 300 more dz faceoffs then Nico who is second on the team.

He's taken nearly 300 less oz faceoffs then Hughes, while taking 550 more dz faceoffs.

It might get lost in the fact that Wood scores most of the goals, but when we talk about our 4th line as being the best in the league, we do need to acknowledge McLeod centers that line.

No they aren't, they are full of random outliers who get boosted based on shooting luck and low ice time figures, and they are a quantity measure not a quality measure (aka efficiency). Your use of assist/60 to argue that McLeod is a good passer is particularly bad because it assumes that all great passes end up in assists which they do not.

McLeod flipping a puck into the neutral zone for Wood to chase down isn't the same as Hughes threading a pass through 4 defenders to a wide open Bratt but they both end up as assists. Anyone with a pair of eyes can acknowledge that the passing skills of McLeod should not ever be compared to that of Hughes.

 

[devilsblood]

No they aren't, they are full of random outliers who get boosted based on shooting luck and low ice time figures, and they are a quantity measure not a quality measure. Your use of assist/60 to argue that McLeod is a good passer is particularly bad because it assumes that all great passes end up in assists which they do not.

McLeod flipping a puck into the neutral zone for Wood to chase down isn't the same as Hughes threading a pass through 4 defenders to a wide open Bratt but they both end up as assists. Anyone with a pair of eyes can acknowledge that the passing skills of McLeod should not ever be compared to that of Hughes.

If I compared Mcleods passing ability to Hughes you’d have a point.

 

[NJDfan86]

If I compared Mcleods passing ability to Hughes you’d have a point.

McLeod is 3rd on the team in 5v5 assists per 60. Trailing only Nico and Bratt. Better then Hughes.

Holtz on McLeod's wing makes sense on multiple levels.

You will try to argue that this isn't you using a statistic to argue that McLeod is better than Hughes, but again you are using an efficiency metric to in a quality discussion.

 

[devilsblood]

You will try to argue that this isn't you using a statistic to argue that McLeod is better than Hughes, but again you are using an efficiency metric to in a quality discussion.

No i mean it to show a level of quality.

We should all be aware that there is more to a player them just some statistic. So anyone with half a brain knows it doesn’t mean mcleod is a better passer the hughes. But in this discussion where the argument is it make no sense to put Holtz on McLeods line I think that stat suggests otherwise.

 

[glenwo2]

Hope we win tonight.

 

[Nubmer6]

This post made me check on Jack's ice time...to my surprise he's only 56th in the league among forwards in Avg time one ice. Nico is 38th.

NHL Stats

The official source for NHL Stats including skaters, goalies, teams stats and more.

www.nhl.com

Ya, but his time comes at 6+ minute stretches at a time.

 

[Billdo]

I think if we're dropping Mercer down and putting him with Haula and Wood, which I actually kind of like tbh, I'd put Holtz with Hughes and Shara. Gives Hughes some shooters and Shara can cover some of the defensive deficiencies those two have. Holtz isn't going to do shit in 7 mins with McLeod and Boq.

 

[AfroThunder396]

Holtz is going to have to earn more ice time by showing off his fundamentals and his play without the puck. He has to keep his legs moving and show good defensive positioning, both of which he's really struggled with.

Until he shows improvement in those areas there's no reason to move him up in the lineup. You guys are talking about putting him in the 100m dash when he hasn't shown that he can ever crawl at the NHL level.

 

[FooteBahl]

I think if we're dropping Mercer down and putting him with Haula and Wood, which I actually kind of like tbh, I'd put Holtz with Hughes and Shara. Gives Hughes some shooters and Shara can cover some of the defensive deficiencies those two have. Holtz isn't going to do shit in 7 mins with McLeod and Boq.

I know it’s a point of contention, but I agree. I think someone said Holtz has played like 6-8 minutes with Jack. He’s obviously not meant for the bottom six and he needs to be put in a position to succeed playing 15+ minutes with Jack for a few games. Put him on PP1 while they’re at it too. I know he’s undeserving of it, but either send him down or give him a fighting chance.

 

[NJDevilsFan21]

Holtz needs to not be a liability every time he's on the ice. It's nice that he can shoot the puck, but if that's all he can do he may have no spot on the team. Even if he just turns into a guy who can win board battles, that would probably cement his spot long term. But as of now he's a level or two below someone like Mercer.

A 37 year old OV who pretty much all but relies on his shot at this point to score goals, and is a defensive liability, is still far more physical and engaged than Holtz.

Holtz needs to start playing like he actually wants to be out there, even when he's not scoring goals.