Devils team discussion (news, notes and speculation) - 2022-23 season thread part I

[Devs3cups]

Are you honestly going to be surprised if that scenario happens though? Bernier played in camp and a scrimmage and said he's still hurt. Why even let him play?

I’d be very surprised, given the practice today.

 

[TBF1972]

Hey guys, we doing okay in here?

I'm seeing my name come up in here a lot and I had no idea this place existed!

Just wanted to reach out and say if you want to chat in here about how much you want to beat me up physically over my tweets that annoy you, I'd much rather you message me and talk to me first. I am sure we are much more likely to grab a beer together than fist fight each other

Or just continue to talk about how much you want to assault me because you think I'm not gonna read it, your choice!

this could become a very competitive battle for bratt's biggest cheerleader. unzip the wonderbras.

 

[Devs3cups]

It's telling he hasn't been taken off of IR. I think he's close but not there yet.

They’ll keep him on there as long as possible for cap purposes most likely. Him having a full practice and participating in PP drills is way more of an indicator.

 

[Triumph]

There’s no skill to avoid getting hit in the face with a puck? I can guarantee you I would be much worse at avoiding getting smacked by an NHL shot than an actual NHL player would. Referees literally do it multiple times per game every game. Wtf are you talking about?

This is another silly point. Of course you would be worse at this than an NHL player. Do you think that you or anybody (or some sort of computer program) could evaluate a given NHL player's likelihood of being able to avoid pucks? If you can't evaluate this on any sort of realistic basis, doesn't that look an awful lot like what 'luck' looks like, in practice?

Is Don Vanmassenhoven bad at avoiding pucks? He was a referee for 20 years and got absolutely annihilated by a puck to the face. Maybe he's worse than other referees?

You can subjectively assess that the likelihood of avoiding certain things is more or less than others. Yeah avoiding getting hit by a puck changing directions from a short distance at a high rate of speed is much more difficult than a dump in from 100 feet out. That doesn’t equal “impossible”. As I explained in a different response, you don’t even need to avoid the strike altogether for there to be a difference in the outcome. Moving a fraction of an inch in a different direction could mean the difference between having your jaw wired vs the puck deflecting off your shield.

When the puck is deflected off something and you have fractions of a second to react, moving away from a puck that you thought was going to avoid you if you moved could smack you right in the face. Ask me if I think Nico has e.g. good hand-eye coordination for an NHL player, too.

As an aside, I find it not at all surprising that you go out of your way to police how people view each specific injury despite agreeing with the overarching point that his penchant for getting hurt is concerning.

If you've been here for a while, you should know that I generally point out stupidity wherever I find it it, so you're right, it should not be surprising.

 

[JimEIV]

now, how many of those games were due to Covid.....? That reduces your number even more.

See how stupid this is?

It seems a silly conversation overall to me honestly. I don't care the reasons why. I actually never care about the reasons why.

I only know what I didn't get as a fan. There is absolutely no reason at all for a fan to be logical or reasonable...Like a crying baby. It doesn't matter the phone is ringing, the water on the stove is boiling, someone is at the door...When it is time eat, feed it, or its going to cry its lungs out.

You be reasonable, I want to count wins.

 

[guitarguyvic]

I am genuinely mystified that you’re drawing some trend line between a broken leg, a puck to the face, games missed due to COVID, etc. But you do you!

Edit: This is also a very good point about how skilled players are better at avoiding injury. That’s why Crosby, Malkin, Stamkos, and Kucherov never miss games.

I didn’t say skilled players are better at avoiding injury. I said skill is part of avoiding injury. Do you not understand the difference?

The ability to hit someone like Scott
Stevens is a specific skill set. That doesn’t mean all highly hockey skilled players can do it.

I’ve never lumped covid in with anything, so now you’re just projecting your general idea of what you think the argument is onto me.

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

@TheBrattPack63 vs @Jersey Fan 12 vs @HersheyBob27

THREE WAY STEEL CAGE MATCH DEBATING JESPER BRATT

 

[TBF1972]

Your avatar would suggest otherwise.

his avatar suggests its a daily thing.

 

[SteveCangialosi123]

A player with better injury avoidance skill just simply gets out of the way of this one like Agent Smith. And his weak bones crack from the force of the blow. Goddamn pansy.

 

[Clam Jensen]

@TheBrattPack63 vs @Jersey Fan 12 vs @HersheyBob27

THREE WAY STEEL CAGE MATCH DEBATING JESPER BRATT

View attachment 592506

Add Mega Jake and make it a 4-way. Hell, 5-way if Arseny Kuikomaiani or whatever ever returns.

 

[My3Sons]

Look I understand there’s an element of luck. And yeah you could say an incident was “unavoidable”. I just think that’s a subjective assessment. We aren’t talking about a bullet here. Even the tiniest difference in reaction speed or movement can make a difference in the extent of an injury. I don’t want to dwell on that specific injury…I only brought it up as an extreme, to point out that even the most “freakish” of accidents have some element of “avoidability”, even if it’s quite small. Focusing on one singular injury also ignores the wider trend pattern, which is the real concern here.

It’s less subjective than you think. I’ve handled litigation with biomechanics and human factors experts and they have studies that define the ability of thr brein and nervous system to react. If someone wants to pony up about $75k I could get an actual answer to this with scientific certainty. They have to scan the environment and create a computer simulation and they could tell you if it was avoidable.

 

[guitarguyvic]

This is another silly point. Of course you would be worse at this than an NHL player. Do you think that you or anybody (or some sort of computer program) could evaluate a given NHL player's likelihood of being able to avoid pucks? If you can't evaluate this on any sort of realistic basis, doesn't that look an awful lot like what 'luck' looks like, in practice?

Is Don Vanmassenhoven bad at avoiding pucks? He was a referee for 20 years and got absolutely annihilated by a puck to the face. Maybe he's worse than other referees?



When the puck is deflected off something and you have fractions of a second to react, moving away from a puck that you thought was going to avoid you if you moved could smack you right in the face. Ask me if I think Nico has e.g. good hand-eye coordination for an NHL player, too.



If you've been here for a while, you should know that I generally point out stupidity wherever I find it it, so you're right, it should not be surprising.

It seems certain posters simply can’t grasp the fine details of what people are saying, then they pass it off as “pointing out stupidity”. Have you ever heard me say Nico is specifically bad at avoiding pucks? I don’t think a single incident is evidence of it one way or another, and I don’t claim otherwise. YOU are the one making a claim that said incident was unavoidable. On the one hand you make this claim, then on the other you say something like “do you think anybody could evaluate a given players likelihood of being able to avoid pucks?” You are literally the one making the evaluation!

I don’t know for sure if another player could have avoided that injury. What I do know is saying that no one could is purely subjective. You yourself are alluding to why when you say none of us can accurately evaluate it. What I do know is that Nico has consistently sustained various injuries that span the spectrum…and given that knowledge, it’s perfectly justifiable to raise the possibility that he’s just not that great at avoiding them.

 

[Hisch13r]

Dom feeling Devilish

 

[JimEIV]

It's like that time I broke my toe on the patio stone steps

My wife keeps saying if I wasn't drinking so much it would've never happened...I keep saying the rum daiquiris had nothing to do with it...People stub their toe it happens.

The doctor somehow agreed with my wife and I told them both how import context was.

 

[Captain3rdLine]

It seems certain posters simply can’t grasp the fine details of what people are saying, then they pass it off as “pointing out stupidity”. Have you ever heard me say Nico is specifically bad at avoiding pucks? I don’t think a single incident is evidence of it one way or another, and I don’t claim otherwise. YOU are the one making a claim that said incident was unavoidable. On the one hand you make this claim, then on the other you say something like “do you think anybody could evaluate a given players likelihood of being able to avoid pucks?” You are literally the one making the evaluation!

I don’t know for sure if another player could have avoided that injury. What I do know is saying that no one could is purely subjective. You yourself are alluding to why when you say none of us can accurately evaluate it. What I do know is that Nico has consistently sustained various injuries that span the spectrum…and given that knowledge, it’s perfectly justifiable to raise the possibility that he’s just not that great at avoiding them.

There’s is no living human with the reaction time to avoid that puck. It’s not physically possible. It would most likely hit you in the face before you even realized it was coming let alone had the time to react.

We are talking about something that took much less than half a second and was coming in likely close to 100mph from a few feet away.
This is just common sense.

 

[My3Sons]

Come on… why would he have practiced today. I understand being worried with the medical staff, but come on. He even got in on the line pairings.

If he didn’t get hit I presume they want to put him through his paces to see how the hamstring responds. Hopefully it’s not sore and he can start to ramp it up tomorrow. I’m not sure I’d play him before next week anyway. Give him a few days of full practice without restrictions before throwing him out there. If he misses the first two games so be it. Just my thoughts.

 

[Triumph]

It seems certain posters simply can’t grasp the fine details of what people are saying, then they pass it off as “pointing out stupidity”. Have you ever heard me say Nico is specifically bad at avoiding pucks? I don’t think a single incident is evidence of it one way or another, and I don’t claim otherwise.

Here is what you said in your first post:

"Nico got hit in the face with a puck. This gets dismissed as a freak accident, which I understand. But the reality is that different player may have reacted quicker, or moved a different direction that would result in the puck not hitting exactly where it hit Nico."

Okay, so apparently this isn't saying Nico is bad at avoiding pucks. What, then, is it saying? Some other player other than Nico might've made a different decision? Nico's head height happened to be in the path of the puck and a taller or shorter player might've avoided it? It's a nonsensical point. It's trying to cast this as Nico's fault somehow - yes, something might've happened differently, but it didn't. Some players and referees get hit with a puck, some don't, there doesn't have to be some big cosmological reason behind it - it's just a fluke play.

YOU are the one making a claim that said incident was unavoidable. On the one hand you make this claim, then on the other you say something like “do you think anybody could evaluate a given players likelihood of being able to avoid pucks?” You are literally the one making the evaluation!

You are the one who is calling this a skill, that 'pucks are not bullets', and that 'you would be worse than an NHL player at doing this', which means that according to you, there are skill levels to this (I agree with this, but find it unconvincing for the argument you are trying to make), and that implicitly, there are gradations of skill in the NHL as well. I reject this last point, what I could say is that a player's head height might matter, but we'd really have no way of knowing because these sorts of things result in major injury so infrequently that we couldn't investigate it.

I don’t know for sure if another player could have avoided that injury. What I do know is saying that no one could is purely subjective. You yourself are alluding to why when you say none of us can accurately evaluate it. What I do know is that Nico has also sustained various injuries that span the spectrum…and given that knowledge, it’s perfectly justifiable to raise the possibility that he’s just not that great at avoiding them.

And this is again, an absurd slippery slope argument that buckets 'being hit in the face with a puck' with the other injuries Nico has sustained over the years. So you've learned nothing at all.

 

[Rhodes 81]

It’s less subjective than you think. I’ve handled litigation with biomechanics and human factors experts and they have studies that define the ability of thr brein and nervous system to react. If someone wants to pony up about $75k I could get an actual answer to this with scientific certainty. They have to scan the environment and create a computer simulation and they could tell you if it was avoidable.

I've paid enough money to biomechs when I handled auto insurance claims as my first job out of college (actual hell), but I can tell you with certainty anyway that there's no amount of skill involved with avoiding injuries from pucks and sticks. It's all just innate reactions, and if the argument is that Hischier's reaction time is demonstrably worse than league average, I'm sure we can find evidence to the contrary.

Injuries happen in sports. sometimes they knock out the 4th liner you all wanted to be benched anyway, sometimes they happen to your best player 5 times in a row. None of these guys are ignoring recovery and prevention habits or anything. You can make an argument that some players can play through more but that is 1. subjective and unprovable and 2. none of Hischier's injuries have been something a player should realistically "tough out."

if he's sidelined for another month from whatever this is, that would suck. But he could also go 4 years without another injury from this point. It is almost completely random.

 

[Eggtimer]

There’s is no living human with the reaction time to avoid that puck. It’s not physically possible. It would most likely hit you in the face before you even realized it was coming let alone had the time to react.

We are talking about something that took much less than half a second and was coming in likely close to 100mph from a few feet away.
This is just common sense.

He should have shifted his skeletal system in order to minimize the point of contact / maximize surface area of impact to disperse the force of the puck ,angled his face at an angle to best decrease the likelihood a defected puck could strike him ( while maintaining an eye on the play in case a deflection or rebound comes out . Rookie move by Nico on that play .

 

[MartyOwns]

 

[HBK27]

Dom feeling Devilish

Like that he has us finishing 2nd in the division. Hate that he has us losing to the Rangers in the first round.

 

[Guttersniped]

Nico will be the next one in here.

"Hey guys! Heard you said I was injury prone a bunch, if you want to talk about it, please say it to me here. I'm just a guy with a hockey stick at the end of the day.

Also all the stuff about me being a 3c is a bit much. And please stop talking about my metal leg, it's fine.

Gotta go, got a heart tune up in a few, I'll be around though. Luv ya, Bye!"

That 3C stuff is all @My3Sons Nico! He won’t shut up about it!

 

[JimEIV]

We spend far too much time here explaining the reasons "why" the failure occurred.

 

[theoptimist]

103 points?! Team can't get out of its own zone

 

[Guttersniped]

103 points?! Team can't get out of its own zone

Name does not check out.