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Devils discussion (news, notes and speculation) - part V

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The nuances and details of whether Nico screams or not, if Bratt shows enough emotion, the specifics of their behaviors, none of that matters

What matters is the results and the results have been poor.

A lot can change from year to year so in theory they could turn it around and be great next year. But I’m not holding my breath.

There’s enough failure to meet expectations with this group that something has to change.
 


It’s not like this is just some random thinking on hf that the team is soft and mentally weak. I thought Keefe would’ve gotten through to these guys but so far that’s not the case
 
JrFischer54 said:


It’s not like this is just some random thinking on hf that the team is soft and mentally weak. I thought Keefe would’ve gotten through to these guys but so far that’s not the case
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The talent isn't there. Plain and simple. Don't know why we need to go in circles. Not many teams will be able to overcome losing their top offensive D, top defensive D, and top playmaker / goal scorer while also seeing the bottom 6 production drop off to worst in the league.

The bottom six is terrible and we had at least one guy before Jack's injury (now multiple) in the top 6 who shouldn't be there.

You can't squeeze orange juice out of a lemon no matter how hard you try.
 
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Incharge1976 said:
The talent isn't there. Plain and simple. Don't know why we need to go in circles. Not many teams will be able to overcome losing their top offensive D, top defensive D, and top playmaker / goal scorer while also seeing the bottom 6 production drop off to worst in the league.

The bottom six is terrible and we had at least one guy before Jack's injury (now multiple) in the top 6 who shouldn't be there.

You can't squeeze orange juice out of a lemon no matter how hard you try.
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At the best of times the team has four top six players. They have two maybe three or four third line guys and I'd argue two play the same position. The rest vary from fourth line to tweeners. Take away the most naturally talented forward and what are you left with?

First line quality (variable based on who they play with): Bratt and Hischier

Top Six quality: Meier

Third line quality: Noesen Mercer maybe Glass and Palat

Fourth line or worse: everyone else

Right now you cannot fill out a top six while some teams who loaded up at the trade deadline have middle six guys playing on third lines only and some have talented young players pushing up the lineup. NJ has none of that. Hopefully they can play well as a team down the stretch and get into the playoffs.
 
Incharge1976 said:
The talent isn't there. Plain and simple. Don't know why we need to go in circles. Not many teams will be able to overcome losing their top offensive D, top defensive D, and top playmaker / goal scorer while also seeing the bottom 6 production drop off to worst in the league.

The bottom six is terrible and we had at least one guy before Jack's injury (now multiple) in the top 6 who shouldn't be there.

You can't squeeze orange juice out of a lemon no matter how hard you try.
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face it this team was in trouble after x mas even when healthy. there is still currently enough top talent to win these games 2-1 3-2 will the wins be pretty or easy? definitely not and its showing
 
None of this should be surprising with Keefe vs. Ruff, by the way. Weren't there rumblings of a country club environment under Lindy right around when he got canned? So of course it's an adjustment for the guys that were here previously, and to those who are under him as a coach for the first time.

That said, if we're talking about the leaders on this team again, Nico started off the season on a torrid goal scoring pace and has been putting up the highest average TOI of his career. Keefe has used him for anything and everything because he's the most reliable player on the team. Bratt is on pace to set a new career high in points, and has also been put out in all situations. Keefe has lauded him numerous times to the media for the way he prepares and goes about every single day as a pro.

I think those who want to apply blame to the team's top players are really off base with the true issues that have hurt the team. Say it's the core all you want, the context would beg to differ.
 
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My3Sons said:
At the best of times the team has four top six players. They have two maybe three or four third line guys and I'd argue two play the same position. The rest vary from fourth line to tweeners. Take away the most naturally talented forward and what are you left with?

First line quality (variable based on who they play with): Bratt and Hischier

Top Six quality: Meier

Third line quality: Noesen Mercer maybe Glass and Palat

Fourth line or worse: everyone else

Right now you cannot fill out a top six while some teams who loaded up at the trade deadline have middle six guys playing on third lines only and some have talented young players pushing up the lineup. NJ has none of that. Hopefully they can play well as a team down the stretch and get into the playoffs.
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no one in the metro loaded up anything and they are still at risk of being chased down by those teams. i dont even think the habs or sens did much adding at the deadline either.
 
The moves you make and don't make have consequences down the line. It was apparent in late January, early February after play dropped off that they needed to add talent. Anyone making an honest assessment of the team at that time would come up with the same conclusion.

I'm really not going to get on Fitz for before the season or even in the beginning of the season because just about everyone had us in the ECF and as the season went on we were even favored to win the cup.

With that said...

Fit should have made a move before the 4 Nations roster freeze, or used that time to make a trade as soon as the freeze ended because it was beyond apparent we needed help because no one was scoring. Maybe with more talent Jack isn't in that position to get hurt on that play.
 
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SansaStark said:
The nuances and details of whether Nico screams or not, if Bratt shows enough emotion, the specifics of their behaviors, none of that matters

What matters is the results and the results have been poor.

A lot can change from year to year so in theory they could turn it around and be great next year. But I’m not holding my breath.

There’s enough failure to meet expectations with this group that something has to change.
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No, those 2 players specifically have been brought up by this poster, so it absolutely 100% matters. Or else why bring it up?

I have already laid out why the team is not playing well overall.

1) injuries
2) lack of depth in the forward corps

it is that simple. It is not because they aren't trying hard enough or yelling enough.
 
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JrFischer54 said:
no one in the metro loaded up anything and they are still at risk of being chased down by those teams. i dont even think the habs or sens did much adding at the deadline either.
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Ok, so any of that makes the NJ lineup better? Ottawa added Zetterlund. Not that NJ should be giving up anything like Ottawa did for a rental but he'd be on the second line at worst with Bratt and Glass or maybe with Meier and Nico. Carolina can at least roll out plenty of NHL depth compared to NJ. Carolina's second line is iffy but they can roll a first line and three third lines. NJ can roll out two second lines and two fourth lines. Then take Slavin off Carolina and Burns off Carolina and let's see how that defense holds up. Washington can roll out an actual top six. The worst player in that group is probably Ovechkin at this point.
 
Zajacs Bowl Cut said:
this harkens back to the time where a few posters flipped the f*** out because PK Subban posted a picture of a few of the players having dinner after losing a (regular season) game. "They don't care enough!!!"

(I know @MartyOwns will appreciate that one)
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IMG_9891.jpeg


evergreen content
 
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JrFischer54 said:
face it this team was in trouble after x mas even when healthy. there is still currently enough top talent to win these games 2-1 3-2 will the wins be pretty or easy? definitely not and its showing
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The problem with this assessment is that you state that the team was in trouble when they were healthy, aka losing, but somehow we are supposed to win all these games with 3 of our most important guys out.

This team when healthy was having issues scoring 3 goals, so I don't know how were are expected to win games 3-2 now.

The only way this happens is our goalies stand on their heads.
 
Incharge1976 said:
The problem with this assessment is that you state that the team was in trouble when they were healthy, aka losing, but somehow we are supposed to win all these games with 3 of our most important guys out.

This team when healthy was having issues scoring 3 goals, so I don't know how were are expected to win games 3-2 now.

The only way this happens is our goalies stand on their heads.
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yeah i was expecting the team to rally around the injury tighten things up knowing jack isn't going to be there to help them score to extend a lead or get a lead when it matters. that usually happens at least initially when a big star goes down.
 
Zajacs Bowl Cut said:
No, those 2 players specifically have been brought up by this poster, so it absolutely 100% matters. Or else why bring it up?

I have already laid out why the team is not playing well overall.

1) injuries
2) lack of depth in the forward corps

it is that simple. It is not because they aren't trying hard enough or yelling enough.
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Ok fine it matters but only secondarily to the fact that you could argue all day about the details of their displayed leadership moments. Or lack theirof.

Injuries and lack of depth are fair but I really don’t think it tells the whole story. As stated repeatedly they were bad before the injuries and the lack of depth we all agree is an issue.

But better teams overcome these problems and we don’t. That is the issue. Not that other mediocre or bad teams overcome these problems, good teams overcome these problems. And we are not a good team.

I thought everyone told me we have high end talent…isn’t that talent enough to get us one measly 4 game winning streak? How bout pop in more than one goal a night? How bout not completely fold up a two goal lead in the 3rd period. Or come back in a game down 1 in the 3rd period. Maybe…just maybe…we don’t actually have any “high end” talent.
 
SansaStark said:
Ok fine it matters but only secondarily to the fact that you could argue all day about the details of their displayed leadership moments. Or lack theirof.

Injuries and lack of depth are fair but I really don’t think it tells the whole story. As stated repeatedly they were bad before the injuries and the lack of depth we all agree is an issue.

But better teams overcome these problems and we don’t. That is the issue. Not that other mediocre or bad teams overcome these problems, good teams overcome these problems. And we are not a good team.

I thought everyone told me we have high end talent…isn’t that talent enough to get us one measly 4 game winning streak? How bout pop in more than one goal a night? How bout not completely fold up a two goal lead in the 3rd period. Or come back in a game down 1 in the 3rd period. Maybe…just maybe…we don’t actually have any “high end” talent.
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what the hell is a "displayed leadership moment"?

"overcome"? how many teams overcome the loss of their best forward, best defensive DMan and best offensive DMan?

I dont give a shit about a 4 game winning streak. You could go an entire season without a 4 game winning streak and get 123 points. Who gives a shit.
 
JimEIV said:
Believe it or not...I actually think this Devil team is better suited for Carolina in 2025 than they were in 2023.
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IDK if this squad can beat them with no Jack or Dougie but I'm not scared of Carolina. They're not that impressive. All it takes is 1 win on their home ice, then if we can figure out our own home ice woes then who knows?
 
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Zajacs Bowl Cut said:
what the hell is a "displayed leadership moment"?

"overcome"? how many teams overcome the loss of their best forward, best defensive DMan and best offensive DMan?

I dont give a shit about a 4 game winning streak. You could go an entire season without a 4 game winning streak and get 123 points. Who gives a shit.
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Any behavior that we as fans can see that shows some kind of leadership. Again, not worth getting into the weeds on that. We disagree that 13 is a good/bad leader.

Good teams do overcome those things. 86 is not our best forward either. Tampa, Vegas come to mind as recent playoff teams that had injuries to top players. But I’m sure there are other examples. And again, they were playing bad before the injuries. Very bad.

In a vacuum if you’re winning a lot sure a 4 game winning streak doesn’t matter. But on this team, and others before it, it’s about the ability to gain momentum. And step on the throat of lesser teams. This group needs the confidence builder, they need to get that mental boost. They’re not able to get back up off the mat on their ability alone.

But turns out, we are the lesser team and we get our throats stepped on constantly. A fact that you still seem to want to waive away with the injury excuse. They sucked before the injuries and I guarantee our record would be no different with the great almighty god Jack Hughes.
 
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