Devils discussion (news, notes and speculation) - part III

[Cheddabombs]

I often find myself disagreeing with this guy, and this very well may be engagement bait, but putting this take out into the world is ludicrous

I think lumping Keefe into that 2nd category is a bit of a stretch. Maybe any other coach would've got similar results, any coach not named Ruff or Green. But I do think Keefe fits this team really well and has implemented a good system, which the team has gotten away from a bit the past few weeks.

Also, Noesen was the most important move!

 

[NJDevs26]

Yeah I don’t know why that dude’s hot takes get posted, as good as Markstrom has been the team didn’t win when he played a lot of his best hockey the last month. And yes lumping Keefe into the didn’t matter bin and not even mentioning Noesen are both stupid.

 

[Better Call Sal]

Is he saying the only thing that mattered is Mark? If that's the case and he's annoyed by the praise all the other moves have gotten, that's an insanely strange thing to be annoyed about. The team is better, only thing worse than trying to pin down the single reason we suck is trying to pin down and argue over the single thing that made us good.

Unless there is sarcasm in there built upon some other arguing I missed.

He seems to be making the argument that we're a worse 5 on 5 team now than we were in 22-23, and attributes that to goaltending (and health last year) letting everything down.

He seems to somehow be absolving Lindy for the type of hockey that was being played due to those two factors.

Yeah I don’t know why that dude’s hot takes get posted, as good as Markstrom has been the team didn’t win when he played a lot of his best hockey the last month. And yes lumping Keefe into the don’t matter bin and not even mentioning Noesen are both stupid.

I'll be honest, it's a slow news day and this one was the most absurd that I've seen from him. I assure you, I would rather I didn't share this but it will at least shift the discussion.

 

[Zippy316]

I often find myself disagreeing with this guy, and this very well may be engagement bait, but putting this take out into the world is ludicrous

Clear and obvious click bait here from him.

But there is definitely an argument to be made that Dillon + Kovacevic + Pesce all in one off-season was a bit of an overcorrection by Fitzgerald. The fact that this team is struggling so much with depth scoring is partially due to committing cap space to Dillon + Pesce too.

Personally, I’d rather the situation the Devils are in now. Our defense has almost been set up to the point where it’s too good to fail. I’d rather that then run into a situation where we get injuries and get exposed.

 

[TheBeerNerd]

Turtoro is one of those online Devils fans who put way too much emphasis on the analytics without understanding that sometimes those numbers need further context.

 

[Better Call Sal]

Clear and obvious click bait here from him.

But there is definitely an argument to be made that Dillon + Kovacevic + Pesce all in one off-season was a bit of an overcorrection by Fitzgerald. The fact that this team is struggling so much with depth scoring is partially due to committing cap space to Dillon + Pesce too.

Personally, I’d rather the situation the Devils are in now. Our defense has almost been set up to the point where it’s too good to fail. I’d rather that then run into a situation where we get injuries and get exposed.

It's important to remember that no one thought for a second that Kovacevic would be the player that he has been. And if Pesce isn't hurt to start the season (and even Nemec being banged up from his injury), do we even find out?

 

[dgibb10]

Is he saying the only thing that mattered is Mark? If that's the case and he's annoyed by the praise all the other moves have gotten, that's an insanely strange thing to be annoyed about. The team is better, only thing worse than trying to pin down the single reason we suck is trying to pin down and argue over the single thing that made us good.

Unless there is sarcasm in there built upon some other arguing I missed.

Markstrom is about 25 GSAx better than what we were at this point last year tbf.

 

[Devils731]

Turtoro is one of those online Devils fans who put way too much emphasis on the analytics without understanding that sometimes those numbers need further context.

Some of the Markstrom saves have been good at showing some of the limitations to public xG models.

We can see some of his recent crazy stops are a goal like 98 times out of 100 but the xG models think, “meh” to some of them.

I’m not saying xG is bad but these can show you have short timeframes or certain weaknesses can be exacerbated or covered up by the things the metric is bad at.

 

[dgibb10]

I think lumping Keefe into that 2nd category is a bit of a stretch. Maybe any other coach would've got similar results, any coach not named Ruff or Green. But I do think Keefe fits this team really well and has implemented a good system, which the team has gotten away from a bit the past few weeks.

Also, Noesen was the most important move!

Yup. Markstrom has been a massive improvement in net (at this point last year we were like -15/20 GSAx, now we're around +10/15.

But this team leagues the league in expected goal differential by a pretty wide margin at +43

He seems to be making the argument that we're a worse 5 on 5 team now than we were in 22-23, and attributes that to goaltending (and health last year) letting everything down.

He seems to somehow be absolving Lindy for the type of hockey that was being played due to those two factors.



I'll be honest, it's a slow news day and this one was the most absurd that I've seen from him. I assure you, I would rather I didn't share this but it will at least shift the discussion.

The only reason we're worse 5v5 this year is finishing.

in terms of expected goals we're +0.63/60 this year 5v5, and were +0.65 in 22/23

 

[NJDfan86]

so, worse? We scored more xG/60 on a team with a worse roster in 22-23, I really can’t believe we are debating THAT point.

The Devils don’t have someone who is going to shoot double digit above expected every year to mask goal scoring problems if it is systems based which seems like a totally reasonable question to me.

 

[theoptimist]

Turtoro is one of those online Devils fans who put way too much emphasis on the analytics without understanding that sometimes those numbers need further context.

I did not think Pesce would be a Devil nor did I think we were trading Marino to make room for him. This all happened really quickly. I'm happy things worked out for us.

 

[TrufleShufle]

Markstrom is about 25 GSAx better than what we were at this point last year tbf.

Tbf, you can be fair and not be annoyed about people who are happy about multiple changes to this team. Is Markstrom a huge improvement? Absolutely. Is the team seemingly most nights filling in the gaps of teammates getting out position a huge improvement? Absolutely. Having a full lineup of D pairs where not a single one makes you nervous being out there, having for most of the time a bottom 6 that can do bottom 6 things more often than not, having seemingly every player on the team doing their best Tom Wilson impression whenever the situation calls for it more than we've ever seen, not feeling like the game is over down by 2 or even sometimes 3 goals because it really feels like every player is actually in the game.

All massive improvements, some of those come from the coach getting players to play the right way, some of it comes from Fitz giving the coach the right tools and some of it comes from the players all stepping up and doing what's expected. A lot of "small changes" cascade into big ones in hockey. Picking one is as pointless as it gets because there isn't one I would get rid of.

 

[Bleedred]

I don't care for CJ at all. I know he posted some stuff about how Hynes needed to be fired and Shero needed to make a coaching change. He was vehemently anti-Hynes, I'm just not sure if it was in 16-17 or 18-19. That much I can't remember. Hopefully it was 16-17 though and not just a year before he was staunchly pro-Hynes and defending him and whining about everybody calling for his firing in 2019-2020.

And then writing blogs about how he was wronged, despite wanting to turf Hynes before it became universally agreed upon to want to turf Hynes, to which he turned heel and superkicked the holy hell out the fire Hynes faction.

 

[JK3]

Markstrom was so good that he was solely responsible for setting the record for giving up 20 shots or less over multiple games, giving up the 3rd least shots against overall and 4th in goals against. It has nothing, nothing to do with the new coach, his systems nor the the new defenseman that implemented said systems.

I hope that dude is trolling, if not, what a tool.

 

[dgibb10]

Tbf, you can be fair and not be annoyed about people who are happy about multiple changes to this team. Is Markstrom a huge improvement? Absolutely. Is the team seemingly most nights filling in the gaps of teammates getting out position a huge improvement? Absolutely. Having a full lineup of D pairs where not a single one makes you nervous being out there, having for most of the time a bottom 6 that can do bottom 6 things more often than not, having seemingly every player on the team doing their best Tom Wilson impression whenever the situation calls for it more than we've ever seen, not feeling like the game is over down by 2 or even sometimes 3 goals because it really feels like every player is actually in the game.

All massive improvements, some of those come from the coach getting players to play the right way, some of it comes from Fitz giving the coach the right tools and some of it comes from the players all stepping up and doing what's expected. A lot of "small changes" cascade into big ones in hockey. Picking one is as pointless as it gets because there isn't one I would get rid of.

100%. Marky is not responsible for us having the best expected goal differential in the league.

 

[Saugus]

Saying that adding Pesce didn't matter is absurd. He has played a large part in the huge leap that Luke Hughes has taken this season, and together they are an excellent middle pairing.

For that alone he is a stellar acquisition.

 

[TheBeerNerd]

I don't care for CJ at all. I know he posted some stuff about how Hynes needed to be fired and Shero needed to make a coaching change. He was vehemently anti-Hynes, I'm just not sure if it was in 16-17 or 18-19. That much I can't remember. Hopefully it was 16-17 though and not just a year before he was staunchly pro-Hynes and defending him and whining about everybody calling for his firing in 2019-2020.

And then writing blogs about how he was wronged, despite wanting to turf Hynes before it became universally agreed upon to want to turf Hynes, to which he turned heel and superkicked the holy hell out the fire Hynes faction.

I think he was never much of a fan of Hynes. I should know, I thought he was an awful coach in 2016-17, and I was looking for validation.

 

[JrFischer54]

Let's get Pav back. 3C, can PK, and forces Haula down to 4C if he comes back and Dowling out of the lineup. Oh, and it reunites the three best friends that anyone could have, and their pregame cheers tradition.

Meier-Hischier-Mercer
Bratt-Hughes-Noesen
Palat-Zacha-Tatar
Lazar-Haula-Bastian

hahahaa zacha! while at it lets bring shara back too

 

[None Shall Pass]

I do wonder if our issues with depth scoring coincide with 4 of our 6 starting d-men being offensive black holes. I also love Dougie but his offensive game has been sputtering a bit too. Really only Luke is a regular offensive threat back there.

 

[Emperoreddy]

Saying that adding Pesce didn't matter is absurd. He has played a large part in the huge leap that Luke Hughes has taken this season, and together they are an excellent middle pairing.

For that alone he is a stellar acquisition.

They would be a top pairing on a lot of teams as well. We are rather lucky in that our current top pair is also so good.

 

[Emperoreddy]

Like I'm sorry but you had to have been lost in a well to not see the massive improvement to how we were playing we Luke and Pesce came back and Casey and Nemec were removed.

Dillion is here because our LD depth has been thin as hell and the roster needed extra snarl for the postseason and he has been doing his role just fine.

Lumping Keefe in is just LOL. That's laughable bait shit.

This team wasn't winning hockey games last year. It is this year. And it's clearly not just Marky. He has been great though, but not THAT great.

This team plays defense now

 

[dgibb10]

I do wonder if our issues with depth scoring coincide with 4 of our 6 starting d-men being offensive black holes. I also love Dougie but his offensive game has been sputtering a bit too. Really only Luke is a regular offensive threat back there.

NJD scores 5v5 goals at a rate 50% higher with Hamilton on the ice than either of the other pairings

 

[longislanddevil]

A pretty good read. The writer draws comparisons to us and Colorado from 2017.

How the Devils' rise has echoes of a recent Stanley Cup champ: Is this the year?

If New Jersey's journey to contention feels a little familiar, there's a good reason why. And will the Devils make another Cup run this spring?

www.espn.com

 

[Bleedred]

A pretty good read. The writer draws comparisons to us and Colorado from 2017.

How the Devils' rise has echoes of a recent Stanley Cup champ: Is this the year?

If New Jersey's journey to contention feels a little familiar, there's a good reason why. And will the Devils make another Cup run this spring?

www.espn.com

Oh god, Colorado was worse in 2017 than we've ever been lol. And I think they just barely got into the playoffs by beating out another team in a head to head matchup with them in 2018 in what I'm pretty sure was the last game of the season. I don't wanna tell you who the goalie was for the team they beat that game. I think the winner of that game would have made the playoffs and the loser wouldn't have. And the Avalanche won the game, thus got the playoff berth.

But they haven't missed the playoffs since.

I think they SHOULD have beaten the Sharks in the second round in 2019. Really the Sharks should have lost to Vegas in round one if not for a fortuitous call, but I'm really all over the place.

But it was 2019 when people were really starting to take Colorado seriously. I remember Keith Jones saying in the post game when they were eliminated that they lost the Sharks this year, but it's not gonna happen next year. It didn't happen next year, the Sharks haven't been back to the playoffs since. But that was the first of three straight years where they would go out in the second round (I think it was to Vegas the next two years straight) before winning the cup in 2022.

 

[Emperoreddy]

A pretty good read. The writer draws comparisons to us and Colorado from 2017.

How the Devils' rise has echoes of a recent Stanley Cup champ: Is this the year?

If New Jersey's journey to contention feels a little familiar, there's a good reason why. And will the Devils make another Cup run this spring?

www.espn.com

Enjoy it starts with a quote from the Caps coach saying he is glad we don't play each other again