Devils discussion (news, notes and speculation) - part II

[ZachaFlockaFlame]

You wanted more out of a career average goalie...I don't know what to tell you. If you don't like the level of assets that were given up to get average, take it up with Fitz.

This is the equivalent of expecting a career 40 point skater in their late 30's to put up a 30/30 season just because the GM gave up premium assets for said skater. It's delusional.

Everyone knows Fitz was desperate but it still doesn't excuse Markstrom not finding his game to the point of being a .915-.920 goalie in front of a very good team. Goalies have random great years, f*** even Markstrom has had random great years. You act like this guy gets bombarded nightly to the point he can't do that? He's given up a shit goal or two in every games he's played this year besides the shutout, Sabres game he started and the Rangers game which they won within the first 5 mins because that team is horrendous garbage.

Many on this board last year: “I beg for average goaltending. My kingdom for average goaltending, we’d win a lot then”

Some of the board this year with winning a lot and average to slightly better than average goaltending: “You guys are really too much being ok with average goaltending”

Buddy, I said a page ago, they're probably a good team with this goaltending for the long run but they're not winning a Cup if we're consistently scared of shit like the first Leafs goal tonight going in.

Markstrom has been above league average because the team is playing absolutely fabulous in front of him. Unlike they did in front of last year’s goalies, who I had enough to say about last year. They weren’t pulling their weight either, but Markstrom would be like an .895% right now on last year’s team.

I’m not ruling him out from getting hot at some point. Nobody thought in December of 2011 that we were getting out of the East with Marty and how abysmal his play was early that year. But he played like the Marty of old from February through the playoffs.

But right now he’s not pulling his weight. How many times has Markstrom played a game like Stolarz did tonight and we came out on the right end of it? I don’t think he has as a Devil.

In the games where he keeps the score low we either allow few shots (Seattle) or he’s making a bunch of saves in junk time in a game where we’re blowing the other team out (Rangers), and I don’t think he’s really been key to a whole lot of wins without us either playing exceptionally well or winning by a bunch of goals.

I keep thinking back to that first game in Prague and I can’t think of any other.

The goal he gave up against Seattle was hilariously bad too, he was completely off his angle and got picked by Burkakovsky after the Devils dominated that game to start.

 

[Devils731]

Buddy, I said a page ago, they're probably a good team with this goaltending for the long run but they're not winning a Cup if we're consistently scared of shit like the first Leafs goal tonight going in.

I’m not your buddy, pal (I think hat tip to South Park)

I know you feel different but I think your standard for goalies may be out of whack. If Markstrom is constantly giving up shitty goals then he must be doing very well on hard shots or we would expect his save percentage and GSAA to be way worse.

Goalies give up bad goals. This board thinks like half the goals the Devils give up are bad goals. There will be full screens and deflections that the game thread will moan about on the goalie.

Markstrom has played fine and I don’t think the team is scared when he is in net. One of the things the Devils got with Markstrom was a goalie the players respect already.

 

[guitarguyvic]

Everyone knows Fitz was desperate but it still doesn't excuse Markstrom not finding his game to the point of being a .915-.920 goalie in front of a very good team. Goalies have random great years, f*** even Markstrom has had random great years. You act like this guy gets bombarded nightly to the point he can't do that? He's given up a shit goal or two in every games he's played this year besides the shutout, Sabres game he started and the Rangers game which they won within the first 5 mins because that team is horrendous garbage.

Obviously it would be awesome if a goaltender in his late 30's that we gave up assets for played above his career average to this degree, but to say that's what should have been EXPECTED? That's just ludicrous. This is just getting stupid now. Just admit that your expectations were way over the top.

 

[ZachaFlockaFlame]

I’m not your buddy, pal (I think hat tip to South Park)

I know you feel different but I think your standard for goalies may be out of whack. If Markstrom is constantly giving up shitty goals then he must be doing very well on hard shots or we would expect his save percentage and GSAA to be way worse.

Goalies give up bad goals. This board thinks like half the goals the Devils give up are bad goals. There will be full screens and deflections that the game thread will moan about on the goalie.

Markstrom has played fine and I don’t think the team is scared when he is in net. One of the things the Devils got with Markstrom was a goalie the players respect already.

Laughing emote for the reference, not the post btw lol

The anger for me is what we gave up for him and Markstrom has made sicko runs on good teams before. If you expect him to give them league average then yeah sure, go ahead, celebrate. But then what's the true difference between him and 22-23 Vitek?

 

[Bleedred]

Everyone knows Fitz was desperate but it still doesn't excuse Markstrom not finding his game to the point of being a .915-.920 goalie in front of a very good team. Goalies have random great years, f*** even Markstrom has had random great years. You act like this guy gets bombarded nightly to the point he can't do that? He's given up a shit goal or two in every games he's played this year besides the shutout, Sabres game he started and the Rangers game which they won within the first 5 mins because that team is horrendous garbage.



Buddy, I said a page ago, they're probably a good team with this goaltending for the long run but they're not winning a Cup if we're consistently scared of shit like the first Leafs goal tonight going in.



The goal he gave up against Seattle was hilariously bad too, he was completely off his angle and got picked by Burkakovsky after the Devils dominated that game to start.

Yes, I was one of the few people here hammering him for that goal in the Seattle game. He was way off his angle on that one. He got outplayed by Grubauer that night, we just outplayed Grubauer’s team that much more and still won the game. Tonight we outplayed Stolarz team by a lot, but it wasn’t enough this time.

He’s been giving up at least one bad goal every game for a while now. The first couple against Detroit looked like Cory Schneider circa December of 2018 and so did the first one tonight.

The nothing shot from the boards on shot one against Nashville when we’re outshooting them 7-1 to start the game and hadn’t scored yet.

I think he also gave up two clunky goals in the St. Louis game.

 

[ZachaFlockaFlame]

Obviously it would be awesome if a goaltender in his late 30's that we gave up assets for played above his career average to this degree, but to say that's what should have been EXPECTED? That's just ludicrous. This is just getting stupid now. Just admit that your expectations were way over the top.

Same fanbase who cried about Cory Schneider whenever he gave up a soft goal when we torpedoed his career btw. You can have high expectations for goalies whenever, sorry I don't expect him to give up dogshit goals through his 5 hole nightly. If you do, then enjoy the fact that this team's ceiling is like it was with Vitek.

 

[Nubmer6]

I WAS going to go, but playing indoor volleyball now

I shall reach out to @Nubmer6 that night for his always in depth recap

We lost


(In OT)

 

[Triumph]

The Devils did not give up a lot for Markstrom. They gave up what looks to be a 20th-ish pick in 2025 and a mid/bottom pairing D who is eligible for UFA in 3 seasons.

 

[ZachaFlockaFlame]

A first they can't use for a possible rental to fix the forwards and the goalie they got is still giving up Vitek Vanecek level goals nightly is borderline garbage asset management

 

[NjDevsRR]

We lost


(In OT)

Im talking about this upcoming Thursday game lmao I wont be watching unfortunately

 

[Devs3cups]

A first they can't use for a possible rental to fix the forwards and the goalie they got is still giving up Vitek Vanecek level goals nightly is borderline garbage asset management

I like Fitz a lot and I think he’s a good GM.

But the goaltending this year will be attached to him. If the goaltending sinks this team it’s gonna be a bad look, and I think Fitz knows it.

Getting what we’re getting when the Leafs have sub .920% goaltending for 2.5 mil a year in Stolarz is kind of a bad look in itself, for example.

I think when it’s all said and done Markstrom will have been slightly above average. But it’s looking a bit shaky right now.

 

[Bleedred]

Also, I’m not sure why Keefe insists on playing Siegenthaler, Pesce and Palat at 3 on 3. I guess if it goes long enough maybe you have to use one of the two defensemen, especially since we shouldn’t be using Dillon either. I understand if they want those guys out there for a D-zone draw or PK (which wouldn’t 3 on 3) but that’s really sandbagging the team that’s been one of the best 3 on 3 teams in the league over the last couple of years.

Palat in 3 on 3 reminds me of Clowe/Zubrus in OT (I think that was still 4 on 4) some years back.

We have enough forwards we can use at 3 on 3 that we don’t need him out there. I can understand needing to use one of those other defensemen a little bit if it goes long enough, but there’s 8 or 10 better forwards to use than him in 3 on 3. And that’s not even including Dowling or Bastian; who I don’t expect them to use over Palat at 3 on 3, but probably wouldn’t be much worse.

 

[guitarguyvic]

Same fanbase who cried about Cory Schneider whenever he gave up a soft goal when we torpedoed his career btw. You can have high expectations for goalies whenever, sorry I don't expect him to give up dogshit goals through his 5 hole nightly. If you do, then enjoy the fact that this team's ceiling is like it was with Vitek.

What does it matter what types of goals he’s giving up if statistically he’s putting up reasonable numbers?

You asked what’s the difference between him and Vitek from two years ago? Not much I guess, other than you’d hope he can maintain his performance through the playoffs rather than imploding like Vitek did.

It’s crazy that people would base their performance expectations on the words of an AGM and the assets given up rather than actual statistics, history, and age. If Mercer went to the oilers and their fans expected him to become a 100 point player because they gave up McDavid in the trade, I think we’d all be in agreement that those fans are just as delusional as the GM that made the trade.

This reminds me of Boston fans thinking that Zacha would be a point per game guy playing next to Pasta.

Edit: actually this is more reasonable from Boston fans than what you you’re expecting from Markstrom. At least with Zacha you could say he was young and playing on a bad team and there was potential there if you put him in a better situation next to better players. Here we’re expecting a guy who plays an extremely volatile position, in his late 30’s, with an entire career’s worth of stats to show he’s an average player, to put up career best numbers “just because”.

 

[Devs3cups]

Im talking about this upcoming Thursday game lmao I wont be watching unfortunately

I will probably be missing it as well, so I will also refer to the @Nubmer6 recap lol

 

[ZachaFlockaFlame]

Also, I’m not sure why Keefe insists on playing Siegenthaler, Pesce and Palat at 3 on 3. I guess if it goes long enough maybe you have to use one of the two defensemen, especially since we shouldn’t be using Dillon either. I understand if they want those guys out there for a D-zone draw or PK (which wouldn’t 3 on 3) but that’s really sandbagging the team that’s been one of the best 3 on 3 teams in the league over the last couple of years.

Palat in 3 on 3 reminds me of Clowe/Zubrus in OT (I think that was still 4 on 4) some years back.

We have enough forwards we can use at 3 on 3 that we don’t need him out there. I can understand needing to use one of those other defensemen a little bit if it goes long enough, but there’s 8 or 10 better forwards to use than him in 3 on 3. And that’s not even including Dowling or Bastian; who I don’t expect them to use over Palat at 3 on 3, but probably wouldn’t be much worse.

My worst Devils memory is seeing that shit v NYR and we lost that game in 14/15, I think Kevin Klein scored the winner? What a blur that era was lol

 

[ZachaFlockaFlame]

I like Fitz a lot and I think he’s a good GM.

But the goaltending this year will be attached to him. If the goaltending sinks this team it’s gonna be a bad look, and I think Fitz knows it.

Getting what we’re getting when the Leafs have sub .920% goaltending for 2.5 mil a year in Stolarz is kind of a bad look in itself, for example.

I think when it’s all said and done Markstrom will have been slightly above average. But it’s looking a bit shaky right now.

They couldn't do Stolarz because they were probably super afraid of career backup getting his first chance similar to Vitek/Akira blowing up in their faces, I understand that from Fitz to get a guy who's been a 10 year ish starter. But yeah, it would be nice to have him right now.

 

[BurntToast]

For all the crap Palat gets, Timo’s contract might be worse if he doesn’t pick it up.

As of today Zetterlund and Timo are tied in points and were separated by only 8 points last year.

Dawson Mercer is also trending off a cliff, with just under 40 points projected for 82 games.

 

[Guttersniped]

Markstrom has been above league average because the team is playing absolutely fabulous in front of him. Unlike they did in front of last year’s goalies, who I had enough to say about last year. They weren’t pulling their weight either, but Markstrom would be like an .895% right now on last year’s team.

I’m not ruling him out from getting hot at some point. Nobody thought in December of 2011 that we were getting out of the East with Marty and how abysmal his play was early that year. But he played like the Marty of old from February through the playoffs.

But right now he’s not pulling his weight. How many times has Markstrom played a game like Stolarz did tonight and we came out on the right end of it? I don’t think he has as a Devil.

In the games where he keeps the score low we either allow few shots (Seattle) or he’s making a bunch of saves in junk time in a game where we’re blowing the other team out (Rangers), and I don’t think he’s really been key to a whole lot of wins without us either playing exceptionally well or winning by a bunch of goals.

I keep thinking back to that first game in Prague and I can’t think of any other.

We were both Stolarz-truthers years ago!

 

[Bleedred]

I like Fitz a lot and I think he’s a good GM.

But the goaltending this year will be attached to him. If the goaltending sinks this team it’s gonna be a bad look, and I think Fitz knows it.

Getting what we’re getting when the Leafs have sub .920% goaltending for 2.5 mil a year in Stolarz is kind of a bad look in itself, for example.

I think when it’s all said and done Markstrom will have been slightly above average. But it’s looking a bit shaky right now.

I still don’t understand how Rogalski survived after we burned down all things goaltending.

And I’m trying not to blame him for Markstrom because Markstrom has a history of being mediocre and somewhat of an underachiever even in his prime. But Fitz rolling the dice with him again despite getting rid of almost every coach that was hired that offseason (other than him and Chris Taylor) was certainly a decision. Rogalski is like Forrest and Lieutenant Dan being the only shrimping boat to survive that big storm lol.

 

[Bleedred]

We were both Stolarz-truthers years ago!

View attachment 943446

I could understand why Fitz would go for Markstrom over Stolarz for being more proven and the fact that Stolarz does have issues with staying healthy at times, which I don’t think has been a problem for the last year or two.

But yeah, I think Stolarz at $2.5 million per for two years is better value than Markstrom at $4.whatever (what we’re paying) million for two years.

But again, I understand why Fitz would go for the proven veteran over Stolarz.

 

[guitarguyvic]

Also besides expectations for Markstrom being clearly out of whack…at some point you have to question why every friggin goaltender that has come here for the last several years seems incapable of playing above expectations for even just a stretch of time. 2022-23 regular season notwithstanding.

 

[Bleedred]

Also besides expectations for Markstrom being clearly out of whack…at some point you have to question why every friggin goaltender that has come here for the last several years seems incapable of playing above expectations for even just a stretch of time.

That’s why I say……not sure why the same goalie coach survived this many goalies. It’s like overthrowing the government and keeping the president/prime minister/whatever.

Not completely blaming Rogalski for any of them, but I’m pretty shocked that he’s survived all but one guy from the original Fitz/Ruff staff/hirings.

 

[ZachaFlockaFlame]

Everyone with a brain cell here would've fired Rogalski but Allen been playing better than Markstrom all year in totality so it's still an issue I want to figure out with our starter

That’s why I say……not sure why the same goalie coach survived this many goalies. It’s like overthrowing the government and keeping the president/prime minister/whatever.

Not completely blaming Rogalski for any of them, but I’m pretty shocked that he’s survived all but one guy from the original Fitz/Ruff staff/hirings.

Probably Marty's nepo buddy

 

[Devs3cups]

If they win against an extremely solid defensive team in the Kings at home, all is forgotten.

But, I’m not holding my breath. Not sure what the odds of that happening are.

 

[NjDevsRR]

If they win against an extremely solid defensive team in the Kings at home, all is forgotten.

But, I’m not holding my breath. Not sure what the odds of that happening are.

Sharks beat the Kings 7-2 two weeks ago. Anything can happen in this league.

Its just two teams in the top 10 in standings playing each other Thursday. Either one winning wouldn’t be surprising. I don’t understand dooming every upcoming game. I am excited for the match up, too bad I won’t be able to watch it.