Devils discussion (news, notes and speculation) - part II

[Devs3cups]

Why are we comparing an under utilized player of an entirely different position to a veteran goalie. Cmon now, I know the point you were responding to but what are you doing here tonight my man

Agree they can't be compared but not sure how Kovacevic is being under utilized

 

[ZachaFlockaFlame]

You expect every player you trade for to outplay their compensation?

That's just completely irrational. That doesn't happen in the real world.

I gave you an example of it happening, it doesn't Markstrom 100% has to do it but players overplay their trade compensation regardless how lofty they are sometimes. We traded for Markstrom so goaltending wouldn't be something we worried about at all this year and it's still a question mark with a top 10 offense that people are getting on. They're not going to score 4-5 every night.

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

Every time Mercer's name has come up in trade talks the last couple of years I think we've all been pretty much in lockstep against the idea. Now in retrospect...I 100% would rather have had Mercer go for Meier instead of Zetterlund. Crazy how things change and can pan out very differently than anticipated. Maybe all these pundits who were throwing him into the trade rumors were onto something.

I've been trying to get rid of him for months! I will take my rare W lol

 

[NjDevsRR]

Agree they can't be compared but not sure how Kovacevic is being under utilized

He was under utilized in Montreal which is why the trade is looking better than what we gave up

Hard to compare that to a vet goalie who we already know what he is

 

[Hisch13r]

Holy f***, they're like top 3 in every single defensive category. xGA/60, HDCA/60, SA/60, SCA/60 lmfao

They're absolutely cooking and we're screwed lmao.

(@NjDevsRR Don't quote this if the Devils end up winning, I'm venting tonight lmfao)

This is with no Doughty too. They've been incredible this year. Most underrated team in the league. Byfield's been struggling heavily too. Only 11 pts in 28 games. If he starts to pop off then really look out for them down the line.

 

[Devs3cups]

This is with no Doughty too. They've been incredible this year. Most underrated team in the league. Byfield's been struggling heavily too. Only 11 pts in 28 games. If he starts to pop off then really look out for them down the line.

Against them at home also? lmfao

Thankfully I might miss that one.

 

[ZachaFlockaFlame]

He was under utilized in Montreal which is why the trade is looking better than what we gave up

Hard to compare that to a vet goalie who we already know what he is

He wasn't penciled in as a regular before the season started. He legit outplayed Nemec to the point where Nemec AND Casey had to go to the minors. We thought our RHD was Dougie/Pesce/Nemec when Pesce came back from his hip so yes you can compare them because 1 guy was supposed to be depth and played his way to a regular role v 1 guy was supposed to be a massive piece to this team's success and arguably hasn't carried his weight this year

 

[NJDevs26]

Against them at home also? lmfao

Thankfully I might miss that one.

Can’t expect much more than 1-1-1 on the dreaded homestand so far lmao

Can we get these games moved to a neutral site?

 

[Devs3cups]

Can’t expect much more than 1-1-1 on the dreaded homestand so far lmao

Can we get these games moved to a neutral site?

Adds to the pain tonight lmfao. One of their best games all year and they can't get the W.

 

[NjDevsRR]

He wasn't penciled in as a regular before the season started. He legit outplayed Nemec to the point where Nemec AND Casey had to go to the minors. We thought our RHD was Dougie/Pesce/Nemec when Pesce came back from his hip so yes he's overplayed his trade comp.

Yeah. Because Montreal nor NJ knew what his ceiling is. Only 2 seasons in the league and a scratch for a portion of the time.

Complete opposite of Markstrom who has been a starting goalie for over a decade.


I don’t know how that can be remotely comparable in terms of that conversation of expecting players to outplay their trade value (which is an odd discussion to begin with). One player was well known, the other wasn’t. So why are we comparing apples to oranges here?

 

[Devils731]

I gave you an example of it happening, it doesn't Markstrom 100% has to do it but players overplay their trade compensation regardless how lofty they are sometimes. We traded for Markstrom so goaltending wouldn't be something we worried about at all this year and it's still a question mark with a top 10 offense that people are getting on. They're not going to score 4-5 every night.

Markstrom is a veteran goalie who is playing to fine numbers for a starting goalie in the current NHL.

I don’t think the team is worried about goaltending now, so mission accomplished from that perspective.

Devils are 10th in the league for save percentage, which is fine. I don’t think they should have been expecting to be top 5.

 

[NjDevsRR]

Against them at home also? lmfao

Thankfully I might miss that one.

I WAS going to go, but playing indoor volleyball now

I shall reach out to @Nubmer6 that night for his always in depth recap

 

[guitarguyvic]

I gave you an example of it happening, it doesn't Markstrom 100% has to do it but players overplay their trade compensation regardless how lofty they are sometimes. We traded for Markstrom so goaltending wouldn't be something we worried about at all this year and it's still a question mark with a top 10 offense that people are getting on. They're not going to score 4-5 every night.

Again this is a ridiculous take.

- There are examples of players "underplaying" their trade compensation too, this doesn't mean anything.
- There are examples of players overplaying their trade compensation, but it's not something that happens "all the time" any more so than players underperforming relative to their value at the time of trade. Such a thing happening would never last long because the market would adjust. This is just you projecting unrealistic expectations.
- The goaltending is not a "question mark", it's simply average which is exactly as expected based on the player acquired.

 

[ZachaFlockaFlame]

Again this is a ridiculous take.

- There are examples of players "underplaying" their trade compensation too, this doesn't mean anything.
- Players do not overplay their trade compensation "all the time". Such a thing happening would never last long because the market would adjust. This is just you projecting unrealistic expectations.
- The goaltending is not a "question mark", it's simply average which is exactly as expected based on the player acquired.

Or this board is simply coddling Markstrom because of the goalie PTSD they've had the past 5 years and the team is a very good spot in the standings because of the skaters

 

[NJDevs26]

That's just silly...Fitz giving up the assets he did does not suddenly make the guy he traded for better than he really is.

Marty called him a top five goalie in the league several months ago lol, they weren’t looking for average

 

[guitarguyvic]

Or this board is simply coddling Markstrom because of the goalie PTSD they've had the past 5 years and the team is a very good spot in the standings because of the skaters

You wanted more out of a career average goalie...I don't know what to tell you. If you don't like the level of assets that were given up to get average, take it up with Fitz.

This is the equivalent of expecting a career 40 point skater in their late 30's to put up a 30/30 season just because the GM gave up premium assets for said skater. It's delusional.

 

[MadDevil]

Marty called him a top five goalie in the league lol, they weren’t looking for average

I love Marty and all but at this point I'm pretty sure he knows f*** all about goaltending these days lol

 

[guitarguyvic]

Marty called him a top five goalie in the league several months ago lol, they weren’t looking for average

So then take that up with Marty and Fitz. Markstrom's career numbers are literally average and he's reaching retirement age range. Not sure why people would think that what our management says about the player or what they traded for him would somehow magically turn him into something more.

 

[NjDevsRR]

Or this board is simply coddling Markstrom because of the goalie PTSD they've had the past 5 years and the team is a very good spot in the standings because of the skaters

You keep saying it but I don’t see anyone coddling him and definitely don’t see anyone attributing the teams success to him. Just folks stating what he is, what the trade value of goaltending like him is, and that he also needs to be better.


@NJDevs26 And Marty can say anything he wants. Markstrom has average numbers the last portion of his career with some ups and downs

 

[Hisch13r]

Marty called him a top five goalie in the league several months ago lol, they weren’t looking for average

 

[NJDevs26]

I love Marty and all but at this point I'm pretty sure he knows f*** all about goaltending these days lol

Then we’re f***ed cause he’s got a big seat at the table and Rogalski is basically his hand picked guy too

 

[ZachaFlockaFlame]

You keep saying it but I don’t see anyone coddling him and definitely don’t see anyone attributing the teams success to him. Just folks stating what he is, what the trade value of goaltending like him is, and that he also needs to be better.


@NJDevs26 And Marty can say anything he wants. Markstrom has average numbers the last portion of his career with some ups and downs

I'm saying people don't care as much because the team has a good standing in the standings. If they were a bubble team, more people would be bitching about Markstrom. The skaters have been phenomenal for the most part this year.

 

[NjDevsRR]

Also for what its worth. There were many games this season that Markstrom has made some pretty damn good and key saves late, same with Allen. Games that NJ won. We weren’t getting that last season. Quite the opposite actually. So its definitely been an improvement.


And with all of that. I revert back to my normal schtick

Goodnight all, get some rest. Team is in a good spot and changes will be made.

 

[Devils731]

I'm saying people don't care as much because the team has a good standing in the standings. If they were a bubble team, more people would be bitching about Markstrom. The skaters have been phenomenal for the most part this year.

Many on this board last year: “I beg for average goaltending. My kingdom for average goaltending, we’d win a lot then”

Some of the board this year with winning a lot and average to slightly better than average goaltending: “You guys are really too much being ok with average goaltending”

 

[Bleedred]

Markstrom has been above league average because the team is playing absolutely fabulous in front of him. Unlike they did in front of last year’s goalies, who I had enough to say about last year. They weren’t pulling their weight either, but Markstrom would be like an .895% right now on last year’s team.

I’m not ruling him out from getting hot at some point. Nobody thought in December of 2011 that we were getting out of the East with Marty and how abysmal his play was early that year. But he played like the Marty of old from February through the playoffs.

But right now he’s not pulling his weight. How many times has Markstrom played a game like Stolarz did tonight and we came out on the right end of it? I don’t think he has as a Devil.

In the games where he keeps the score low we either allow few shots (Seattle) or he’s making a bunch of saves in junk time in a game where we’re blowing the other team out (Rangers), and I don’t think he’s really been key to a whole lot of wins without us either playing exceptionally well or winning by a bunch of goals.

I keep thinking back to that first game in Prague and I can’t think of any other.