Devils discussion (news, notes and speculation) - offseason part II

[Captain3rdLine]

I agree he mostly wants out of Calgary.
But where else will he find a starting job and want to be there? He specifically refused to waive for the Kings and there are likely a bunch of other teams he'll refuse to waive to.

Ottawa is a giant mess, no chance he goes there.
LA is already out.
I doubt Utah is in the running.
Carolina is going to be very tight against the cap signing their own players. I doubt they can fit him in.
Edmonton is in a similar cap situation and I doubt Calgary wants to trade him there.
Sharks, BJs, Hawks are going to be garbage, no chance he goes to any of them.

Devils are an option
Leafs are an option
Flyers maybe, but they just signed Fedotov for $3.3m
Blues maybe if they trade Binnington
Detroit maybe if they get rid of Husso

One, who reported the LA thing because I would be doubtful that it’s anything more than just rumours. Carolina could fit him in retained. I’m not sure why Utah wouldn’t be in the running and even Ottawa, the mess there is overstated and they still have good young talent. Overall if he wants to get out of Calgary there’s a long list of teams that are better options he might be willing to go to. If he’s going to be picky with his NMC than there’s still some teams that are an option. Again, highly unlikely that he’s just holding out for the devils even if there’s only a couple other options that make as much sense. I just don’t think he’s sitting here saying hey I want to get traded but only to the devils, or anything close to that like you originally suggested.

Side note to all this, I can remember when Calgary fans were saying Markstrom wanted to stay in Calgary as part of their leverage and how the Flames didn’t have to trade him.

 

[Goptor]

Devils’ top goalie target might not get traded after all, insider says

There’s another new wrinkle in the Devils’ pursuit of a goalie.

www.nj.com

Who is Conroy fooling here? Really. They don’t have any leverage after the gross, inept mismanagement of the Markstrom situation at the trade deadline. It’s like Maloney expected a desperate Fitz to up his offer and Fitz held firm (good for him). You’ve asked the player to waive his no trade clause and the media is all over it. I believe Markstrom fully expected to be traded to the Devils at this point. With each passing day and the report leaking of Maloney vetoing the deal, it’s a complete clown show. Fast forward to now….it’s almost comical that Conroy is saying the Flames may keep Markstrom after all. You have already alienated Markstrom who I’d suspect fully wants out.

Conroy’s best offer was probably at the trade deadline and he certainly does not have a better one now or he’d have pulled the trigger. Tough pill to swallow but the damage is self-inflicted.

Ottawa can be interested in Markstrom all they want but I’d be stunned if he waived his NTC to go there. Who’s left? Toronto, possibly….and us. Sorry buddy, you’re not getting the return you’re holding out for. This isn’t Schneider in his prime, who was a borderline elite goalie when he was traded for.

Go ahead and keep a disgruntled Markstrom, Craigie…I’m sure it’ll be great for your room. Not buying it for a second. I’ve reached a point where I’m over this. If I’m Fitz I give Calgary a drop dead date and have a Plan B lined up and ready to execute on. It’s high time the heat is turned up on the Flames (see what I did there….haha).

Its obvious that Calgary keeping Markstrom to start the season would be terrible for that team.

However, as you said above, there isn't any evidence that the management there is capable of running the team smartly. You can make the assumption that gross, inept mismanagement is a consistent trait of their management so the correct conclusion is they will likely make the gross, inept solution when given a problem.

 

[vtdevils2k]

Its obvious that Calgary keeping Markstrom to start the season would be terrible for that team.

However, as you said above, there isn't any evidence that the management there is capable of running the team smartly. You can make the assumption that gross, inept mismanagement is a consistent trait of their management so the correct conclusion is they will likely make the gross, inept solution when given a problem.

All it takes is Markstrom to be reached by some reporter and to grumble a bit...I cant imagine he's happy right now especially with reports he waived for NJ.

Fitz is sticking to his grounds from what it sounds, which is good. That 10th pick is not going for Markstrom, nor should it. Need to add a good pick to the prospect pool and hopefully this is the last year we pick in the top 10-20.

 

[Bleedred]

When was the last time a team traded a first round pick for a goalie?

Had to be Kuemper from Arizona to Colorado in 2021? And I don't remember if that was the 2021 pick or 2022 pick, but it was the 32nd overall if it wound up being 2022's pick.

Is that the only time it's happened this decade?

Maybe I've just forgot about a ton, but I can't remember it happening at all between Lehner and Jones going for first round picks I think on the same day in 2015, when both were younger goalies.

Did Vegas give Chicago a first for Lehner in 2020? I don't think so?

I'd like to know how often it's happened since 2015. Probably not a whole lot. Maybe I've missed some or forgotten something?

 

[Forge]

When was the last time a team traded a first round pick for a goalie?

Had to be Kuemper from Arizona to Colorado in 2021? And I don't remember if that was the 2021 pick or 2022 pick, but it was the 32nd overall if it wound up being 2022's pick.

Is that the only time it's happened this decade?

Maybe I've just forgot about a ton, but I can't remember it happening at all between Lehner and Jones going for first round picks I think on the same day in 2015, when both were younger goalies.

Did Vegas give Chicago a first for Lehner in 2020? I don't think so?

I'd like to know how often it's happened since 2015. Probably not a whole lot. Maybe I've missed some or forgotten something?

Kuemper was the last one. It was a future first (22) which ended up being the last pick because they won the cup.

Before that, Freddie Andersen and Martin Jones both got first round picks. Robin lehner is right at a decade now, I think.

The last time before lehner I think was the Cory trade.

 

[Normal Devil]

All it takes is Markstrom to be reached by some reporter and to grumble a bit...I cant imagine he's happy right now especially with reports he waived for NJ.

Fitz is sticking to his grounds from what it sounds, which is good. That 10th pick is not going for Markstrom, nor should it. Need to add a good pick to the prospect pool and hopefully this is the last year we pick in the top 10-20.

It would be nice if Markstrom would just force his way to NJ.

 

[vtdevils2k]

It would be nice if Markstrom would just force his way to NJ.

Have a feeling that may happen or is already happening behind the scenes.

Calgary is one of those teams that is stuck in the middle that won't go anywhere and won't commit to a rebuild.

 

[Bleedred]

Kuemper was the last one. It was a future first (22) which ended up being the last pick because they won the cup.

Before that, Freddie Andersen and Martin Jones both got first round picks. Robin lehner is right at a decade now, I think.

The last time before lehner I think was the Cory trade.

Yeah, the Freddie one I forgot. I think that was the year after Jones and Lehner? I always thought that was a classic Lou move. He was definitely the one that made that deal. It was a good one back then. Andersen (before getting injured all the time and falling apart at the end) was by far the best goalie they've had in a long time. Probably since Rask, who never played a game there.

So basically Lou is responsible for 2 of the last 5 of these?

That's not even one every other year since 2013, and that's skewed since 4 of the 5 happened after 2016. Only once in the last 8 years now.

 

[Smitty426]

You have plan! Overall everything looks good but I would prefer to save more assets. Our prospect pool isn't strong, we are not the strong team still and good players on elc will help a lot. As roster players, as 13-14 F/7-8 D options.

For my view Fitz shouldn't overrank player he likes. He likes Graves, Toffoli, Johnsson. They were okay. But they were not great. He can find players on the market and pay for them only by cap space. Trenin, Blueger, Joshua, Blackwell, Foegele, Henrique, Debrusk etc. Some of them are really good, im not a fan of some others. Overall plenty of options. Jeannot if he is available should be cheap.
Plenty of options, pick what you like. Fitz just should understand the problem and work on the market.

With defensemen its harder task to ask. I would like Kulikov as a third pair defenseman but he is good when nothing more. Bahl is goid when he is third pair defenseman too. We need something more. I can't pencil Bahl or Sigenthaler as top 4 defenseman now if we are talking about trying to compete.
McNabb sounds good but he is cheap, I believe Vegas would prefer to save him, may be They are ready to trade him I could miss some rumors.

Thank you Guadana, love your work on prospects, keep it up!
I really like Colton to Jersey, its finally a perfect fit! A. A kid who always wanted to play here B. Plays a position of need C lately in CO (for Jacks wing/FO guy) C. Is a great forecheker D. Bangs the body E. Is fast on his skates F. Gives Jack a little nasty on his line. other items wont need a ton of assets, some are just salary.

 

[Bleedred]

even Ottawa, the mess there is overstated and they still have good young talent.

Is it though? Every year is supposed to be the year they turn the corner and get good, but then they go and do something really stupid that sets the team back. Like sign Korpisalo to a 5 year deal worth $4 million (or is it $5?) per year. And then just a few weeks into the offseason when there's still coaches on the market, as well as coaches who are being fired in waiting (like Keefe) they go and hire Travis Green.

I don't trust anything those people are doing over there. And it's not even the same management/ownership group that FUBAR'd them for years, and the new people still made a really DUMB move by going to Travis Green.

I don't know if they didn't try hard enough for Berube (didn't they interview him? That was confirmed I believe?) or didn't give him enough. Maybe he was holding out for Toronto because the writing was already on the wall with Keefe and Toronto is better off than Ottawa, but that's a pretty bad move. I mean, I wouldn't have even laughed at them if they hired McLellan, at least not that hard. Travis Green? REALLY? Almost sounds like a CHEAP, Melnyk move. They probably could have had one of the rookie guys for cheaper than they paid Green, and at least they woudn't know if he sucked or not, like they should know about Green.

But aside from that, I wonder how they're gonna move Korpisalo. They're not gonna bring in Markstrom and have him and Korpisalo tandem, could they? They'd need Calgary to retain a whole bunch.

That's like $10 million + in goalies.

 

[Captain3rdLine]

Is it though? Every year is supposed to be the year they turn the corner and get good, but then they go and do something really stupid that sets the team back. Like sign Korpisalo to a 5 year deal worth $4 million (or is it $5?) per year. And then just a few weeks into the offseason when there's still coaches on the market, as well as coaches who are being fired in waiting (like Keefe) they go and hire Travis Green.

I don't trust anything those people are doing over there. And it's not even the same management/ownership group that FUBAR'd them for years, and the new people still made a really DUMB move by going to Travis Green.

I don't know if they didn't try hard enough for Berube (didn't they interview him? That was confirmed I believe?) or didn't give him enough. Maybe he was holding out for Toronto because the writing was already on the wall with Keefe and Toronto is better off than Ottawa, but that's a pretty bad move. I mean, I wouldn't have even laughed at them if they hired McLellan, at least not that hard. Travis Green? REALLY? Almost sounds like a CHEAP, Melnyk move. They probably could have had one of the rookie guys for cheaper than they paid Green, and at least they woudn't know if he sucked or not, like they should know about Green.

But aside from that, I wonder how they're gonna move Korpisalo. They're not gonna bring in Markstrom and have him and Korpisalo tandem, could they? They'd need Calgary to retain a whole bunch.

That's like $10 million + in goalies.

I mean they fully could. Calgary would just have to retain which is a possibility with any team they’re trading him to.

If your entire basis for them being a mess is the Korpisalo signing and Travis Green hiring that’s ridiculous. Sure Korpisalo signing doesn’t look good. Was a desperate move.

The Green hiring while most fans don’t think it’s a great move could turn out. As fans on the outside we have way too little to judge off of to make such a strong assessment about whether a coach is good or not. There’s so little to base it off of and clearly the people within the league who are actually working with him and the managements who’ve interviewed him see him differently.

Call it a questionable decision sure because his reputation as a coach isn’t seen as stellar from the outside. But going fully overboard and saying it’s a sign of the organization being a mess is ridiculous.

And we’re looking at it from the players perspective. Markstrom has played for Green and very well may have liked him. And then he may look at the young talent they have (Stutzle, Tkachuk, Batherson, Norris, Greig, Sanderson, Chabot, etc) and the open Goaltending spot and think that’s a pretty good fit and much better than Calgary.

 

[Bleedred]

I mean they fully could. Calgary would just have to retain which is a possibility with any team they’re trading him to.

If your entire basis for them being a mess is the Korpisalo signing and Travis Green hiring that’s ridiculous. Sure Korpisalo signing doesn’t look good. Was a desperate move.

The Green hiring while most fans don’t think it’s a great move could turn out. As fans on the outside we have way too little to judge off of to make such a strong assessment about whether a coach is good or not. There’s so little to base it off of and clearly the people within the league who are actually working with him and the managements who’ve interviewed him see him differently.

Call it a questionable decision sure because his reputation as a coach isn’t seen as stellar from the outside. But going fully overboard and saying it’s a sign of the organization being a mess is ridiculous.

And we’re looking at it from the players perspective. Markstrom has played for Green and very well may have liked him. And then he may look at the young talent they have (Stutzle, Tkachuk, Batherson, Norris, Greig, Sanderson, Chabot, etc) and the open Goaltending spot and think that’s a pretty good fit and much better than Calgary.

Maybe he wants to play for Green. Maybe he does like Green? I'll give you that.

Hiring Green is the worst head coaching hire of the summer though. It's really bad. Green has been a terrible coach in the NHL. He was terrible in Vancouver. They got instantly better in every metric after he was fired and replaced with Boudreau.

We got worse when he took over, even with the upgraded goaltending.

I just think they're not off to a great start there with the new guys.

Korpisalo is gonna be a bitch to move. He's one of the worst goalies in the league since he entered and his contract isn't anything reasonable.

I still give the edge to Detroit and maybe even Buffalo over them right now. As well as every other team in their division that already finished ahead of them.

I know Buffalo is in the same position where they're supposed to be good every year. I'd rather have Ruff over Gteen. We just saw the difference between the two up close and personally.

 

[Nico Hischier]

I posted on the main boards a proposal of holtz for knight which I think could work for both teams if Florida wants to resign their ufas and rfas as knight is making 4.5aav but Florida could just run it back with bob and stolarz. I’d rather have Allen/knight/Schmid next year than markstrom. Also I still think ullmark should be the top target for goalies but knight is a top goalie prospect who could be made available if Florida is in a cap crunch. I also like the suggestions others have mentioned trenin, Colton, and maybe Dillon for defense but don’t think devils can afford all those players and a new goalie

 

[Triumph]

One, who reported the LA thing because I would be doubtful that it’s anything more than just rumours. Carolina could fit him in retained. I’m not sure why Utah wouldn’t be in the running and even Ottawa, the mess there is overstated and they still have good young talent. Overall if he wants to get out of Calgary there’s a long list of teams that are better options he might be willing to go to. If he’s going to be picky with his NMC than there’s still some teams that are an option. Again, highly unlikely that he’s just holding out for the devils even if there’s only a couple other options that make as much sense. I just don’t think he’s sitting here saying hey I want to get traded but only to the devils, or anything close to that like you originally suggested.

Side note to all this, I can remember when Calgary fans were saying Markstrom wanted to stay in Calgary as part of their leverage and how the Flames didn’t have to trade him.

Utah has Vejmelka and Ingram, they should have no interest in Markstrom.

Also agree with Bleedred that Ottawa is dysfunctional - they have talent but not a whole lot else.

 

[Forge]

I posted on the main boards a proposal of holtz for knight which I think could work for both teams if Florida wants to resign their ufas and rfas as knight is making 4.5aav but Florida could just run it back with bob and stolarz. I’d rather have Allen/knight/Schmid next year than markstrom. Also I still think ullmark should be the top target for goalies but knight is a top goalie prospect who could be made available if Florida is in a cap crunch. I also like the suggestions others have mentioned trenin, Colton, and maybe Dillon for defense but don’t think devils can afford all those players and a new goalie

I'll say the same thing I said when he was brought up here - If this were 3 years ago, I could see the team targeting someone like Knight. If they already had a Markstrom type guy and were looking for the compliment, I could see them targeting someone like Knight.

I don't think that this a team that is viewed by Fitzy as "hope to be competitive". This is a team that I think is viewed by Fitzy as should be competitive.

For that reason, I simply do not believe that Fitz is going to entrust this goaltending situation to Jake Allen and a guy like Spencer Knight.

 

[Bleedred]

Knight would be fine if he weren't on that contract.

He hasn't done much to be worth that much money, at least not after the last two years. He's hardly played in the NHL in the last 1.5 years in real time.

AHL numbers look decent., Nothing great, but nothing bad, Probably around average.

He's not worth that salary he's getting though, and I don't think the Panthers want to pay him that either.

 

[Forge]

Have a feeling that may happen or is already happening behind the scenes.

Calgary is one of those teams that is stuck in the middle that won't go anywhere and won't commit to a rebuild.

I'm with @Captain3rdLine line....I think it's easy to conflate Markstrom wanting away from Calgary with wanting to go to New Jersey. We really don't know. It could definitely be more on the "wants away from Calgary" side more so than the "wants to go to New Jersey" side. I think he'll probably have a much wider range of teams he's willing to go than Ullmark will.

Though I do think that there is a more limited market for him than we are sometimes led to believe.

 

[Captain3rdLine]

Utah has Vejmelka and Ingram, they should have no interest in Markstrom.

Also agree with Bleedred that Ottawa is dysfunctional - they have talent but not a whole lot else.

Being dysfunctional and a complete mess that a player wouldn’t consider going to are two different things

 

[Captain3rdLine]

Hiring Green is the worst head coaching hire of the summer though. It's really bad. Green has been a terrible coach in the NHL. He was terrible in Vancouver.

You truly can’t make this assessment before seeing the results. His short time with us is a wash. Not nearly enough time to make the changes and have the team play his way.

My problem with saying a coach is terrible is that as fans we only see at most 5% of what they’re doing and the factors involved. And then the rest is inferred from results. That isn’t nearly enough to so confidently assess that someone is a terrible coach after only one job. Again, I’m fine with saying that’s it’s questionable from the outside given his past results but given how little we actually see and know it’s not fair to do confidently state that he’s a terrible coach.

 

[Guadana]

Thank you Guadana, love your work on prospects, keep it up!
I really like Colton to Jersey, its finally a perfect fit! A. A kid who always wanted to play here B. Plays a position of need C lately in CO (for Jacks wing/FO guy) C. Is a great forecheker D. Bangs the body E. Is fast on his skates F. Gives Jack a little nasty on his line. other items wont need a ton of assets, some are just salary.

Thanks for your words. Мне действительно приятно, когда людям интересно и полезно читать, то что я пишу.
I think Colorado dont have reasons to trade him. As I understand he isnt very good in D zone, but he is mobile, quite productive for his role. But Colorado is trying to compete now and Colton is on the fair deal.

 

[SteveCangialosi123]

Maybe we can swap these guys as part of the Markstrom deal? They get the younger player with way more scoring potential, we get a guy with great speed that had 238 hits in 63 games more suited to the traditional 3rd line role.

 

[Forge]

Goalies the age of Markstrom usually get donated (Roloson, Fleury, Smith, Luongo, Talbot...). Fitzgerald obviously overpaid for Allen but usually when you're at that age you have no value, unless you're a mid season rental as currently the Vezina favorite. Plus Markstrom is overpaid and has an extra year in his contract and has struggled for 2 years in a row. I think a 2nd round pick would be an overpayment. He has almost no playoff experience either. Giving up a 1st would be, in my opinion, one of the worst trades of the modern era, up there with the Erat and Bobrovsky trades.
Most likely the '10th overall pick' talk is just the Canadian media's concoction. I'm always hearing about how the Habs can get elite players for their most recent 7th round pick or how their latest 6th round pick is definitely the next Gaudreau. Always lies

In fairness, Roloson did go for pick #17 when he was 37. The pennies trade was him in his 40s.

Also, Markstrom didn't struggle last year. He had a bad last 10 games, but on the whole was still among the league leaders in goals saved above expected (#7 per money puck in all situations; natural stat trick had him at +11.7 at 5 on 5, I think, which was also among the league leaders, and had one of the best high danger save percentages in the league). The end of the season was rough, but he had a good year still.

Giving up a first as one of the worst trades in modern history is extremely hyperbolic or a gross over valuing of late first round picks in terms of league value. I mean, the team that's about to win the cup gave up a first round pick for 30 games of Ben freaking Chiarot. Winnipeg gave up more than a first for Sean Monahan. Boston gave up a first for less than 30 games of Tyler Bertuzzi. Tampa gave up damn near an entire draft class for Tanner Jeannot.

If the Devils think Markstrom will be an above average goalie for the next two years, and he's their guy, I have no problem with offering up a late, protected, future first for that. Whether he ends up being that is a conversation that'll be had in hindsight, but I certainly understand giving that pick up for 2 years of Markstrom to be your starting goalie than I do giving up pick 13 for Romanov or a first for Christian Dvorak, Ramsus Ristolainen, or 11 games of Nick Foligno (and some of these guys returned more than just the first)

 

[Forge]

View attachment 883131

Maybe we can swap these guys as part of the Markstrom deal? They get the younger player with way more scoring potential, we get a guy with great speed that had 238 hits in 63 games more suited to the traditional 3rd line role.

I've mentioned Pospisil a couple of times because I do think he has an edge that Fitz would really like to add. And the size, of course.

That said, one thing to be mindful of is I believe he's already had a number of concussions.

 

[Guttersniped]

Devils’ top goalie target might not get traded after all, insider says

There’s another new wrinkle in the Devils’ pursuit of a goalie.

www.nj.com

Who is Conroy fooling here? Really. They don’t have any leverage after the gross, inept mismanagement of the Markstrom situation at the trade deadline. It’s like Maloney expected a desperate Fitz to up his offer and Fitz held firm (good for him). You’ve asked the player to waive his no trade clause and the media is all over it. I believe Markstrom fully expected to be traded to the Devils at this point. With each passing day and the report leaking of Maloney vetoing the deal, it’s a complete clown show. Fast forward to now….it’s almost comical that Conroy is saying the Flames may keep Markstrom after all. You have already alienated Markstrom who I’d suspect fully wants out.

Conroy’s best offer was probably at the trade deadline and he certainly does not have a better one now or he’d have pulled the trigger. Tough pill to swallow but the damage is self-inflicted.

Ottawa can be interested in Markstrom all they want but I’d be stunned if he waived his NTC to go there. Who’s left? Toronto, possibly….and us. Sorry buddy, you’re not getting the return you’re holding out for. This isn’t Schneider in his prime, who was a borderline elite goalie when he was traded for.

Go ahead and keep a disgruntled Markstrom, Craigie…I’m sure it’ll be great for your room. Not buying it for a second. I’ve reached a point where I’m over this. If I’m Fitz I give Calgary a drop dead date and have a Plan B lined up and ready to execute on. It’s high time the heat is turned up on the Flames (see what I did there….haha).

On the other, Markstrom is on the wrong side of 30 and saw his stats plunge after last season’s trade deadline, going from a .911 SV% to an .870. The Swedish keeper is also fairly costly, boasting a cap hit of $6 million per year through the 2025-26 season.

One question is how to replace Hanifin (1st in 5v5 ATOI before his TDL trade), Tanev (4th before his late Feb trade) and Zadorov (4th before his late Nov trade).

This was their post TDL defense:


They lost a lot but trade pick-up Miromanov had some respectable numbers and a healthy Kylington will help a lot.

 

[Guadana]

View attachment 883131

Maybe we can swap these guys as part of the Markstrom deal? They get the younger player with way more scoring potential, we get a guy with great speed that had 238 hits in 63 games more suited to the traditional 3rd line role.

His defensive metrics are really good.

One question is how to replace Hanifin (1st in 5v5 ATOI before his TDL trade), Tanev (4th before his late Feb trade) and Zadorov (4th before his late Nov trade).

This was their post TDL defense:
View attachment 883137

They lost a lot but trade pick-up Miromanov had some respectable numbers and a healthy Kylington will help a lot.

Bahl+Holtz for Markstrom+Pospisil.