Devils discussion (news, notes and speculation) - offseason part II

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

Debrusk and a guy like Trenin would be what I push hard for in FA. Those 2 guys would round out the forward corps nicely, and also provide some "toughness"

 

[JrFischer54]

1. Obviously he doesn’t believe that, that’s why I’m pointing out the absurdity of the logic of proven NHL player > draft pick. 32 out of 32 teams would value the 10th overall pick over Holtz.

2. If the draft was a crapshoot then there’d be no difference between picking 1st overall or 32nd overall, the fact that your probability increases the closer you get to 1st overall both in terms of NHL likelihood and quality proves it’s not just a roll of the dice but rather odds built on logical probabilities.

3. That’s part of it, but there’s still plenty of teams every year picking in the top 10 that have playoff or contender hopes, they’re not all rebuilding teams. And yet in the past 20+ years there’s only been a handful of trades that involve top 10 picks for players.

You also never commented about Dallas having an extended contending window due to players like Johnston, Harley and Stankoven (all drafted after they made the playoffs) or Edmonton getting a huge boost from Bouchard (12th overall pick in 2018) who was taken after they missed the playoffs. Where would those teams be if they traded those picks because “they don’t want to wait 3 years”.

Or about the fact that you keep bringing up 3 years as if Mercer and Bratt were both impactful players 1 year after being drafted?

Fancy word for crapshoot. Of course it’s less of a crap shoot the higher you go but still no one knows how well or when or if these kids will produce even at 1

 

[Rhodes 81]

Debrusk and a guy like Trenin would be what I push hard for in FA. Those 2 guys would round out the forward corps nicely, and also provide some "toughness"

This is probably the best case scenario if you could just have your pick of UFAs we could realistically afford, but obviously both of those guys should have a number of suitors. We'll probably get a good barometer this offseason of just how desirable of an org we are currently.

 

[JrFischer54]

Let the defense mature and fix the forwards and goaltending will be easier to find after that.

Yeah? I mean the talk at the deadline was to wait til the summer prices will be lower. Doesn’t seem to be the case.

 

[JrFischer54]

Always was a Fitz supporter but if he feels he has to go big game hunting or has to do something for sake of doing it then he should be removed....He should do everything with today and tomorrow in mind .....This teams window is only opening not closing ...

Goaltending is a tremendous problem on this team he tried to fix it already and it failed. So if he doesn’t want to “big game” hunt then that’s on him

 

[glenwo2]

If by hockey gods you the best goalie coaches in the NHL, then sure, the hockey gods blessed Nashville and the Rags. (Ian Clark in Vancouver is the other blessed one.)

Or maybe our own Goaltender coach is that much worse than Nashville and the Rags?

That's also a possibility.

 

[Forge]

From Eric D's recent athletic article:

"There are four premium goaltenders to target in the offseason, and you could probably get any of the four for that No. 10 pick. Realistically, with a few restrictions and quibbles, their targets should be, in order: Jacob Markstrom of Calgary, Linus Ullmark of Boston, John Gibson of Anaheim and Juuse Saros of Nashville."

 

[glenwo2]

The Return of Pickles?

 

[PKs Broken Stick]

Always was a Fitz supporter but if he feels he has to go big game hunting or has to do something for sake of doing it then he should be removed....He should do everything with today and tomorrow in mind .....This teams window is only opening not closing ...

Disagree. The window is now. We can't wait till Jack is 30 to start pushing for the cup. Just because there's trades made for veteran help doesn't mean it's trading away the future. The core is Jack/Luke/Meier/Nico/Bratt/Nemec. It's time to push forward with that and no one will be replacing them realistically. We can supplement the rest of the roster with role players with good drafting and you don't need 1st round picks for that.

Friedman mentioned in the 32 Thoughts podcast that Jeremy Colliton is a candidate for an assistant coach role in the Devils.

Is there anything good about this guy?

 

[PKs Broken Stick]

Bouchard is a great example of how it gets later real fast, he was a guy Edmonton was supposed to move for a player “to help them win” for a couple of years because they couldn’t wait for him to contribute.

But we can also trade the player we get later whenever we want.

The Ekholm trade did a lot to turn that team around. The Oilers traded a guy at the TDL that they drafted at #32 the summer before, another pick they were “supposed” to trade at the draft according to that thinking.

You don’t trade for “NHL talent” you make an actual trade, and if there isn’t one that makes sense, then you keep your powder dry.

Historically, teams that make desperation short term “win now” moves when they aren’t winning both 1) don’t win the short term 2) have trouble winning in later because they don’t have the depth or the assets to get it.

Agree there. This is why gms get paid for this. It's a balance to keep. Can't make a trade just to make a trade but you also can't just wait around forever.

 

[JrFischer54]

Disagree. The window is now. We can't wait till Jack is 30 to start pushing for the cup. Just because there's trades made for veteran help doesn't mean it's trading away the future. The core is Jack/Luke/Meier/Nico/Bratt/Nemec. It's time to push forward with that and no one will be replacing them realistically. We can supplement the rest of the roster with role players with good drafting and you don't need 1st round picks for that.



Is there anything good about this guy?

All truth and been said before this team doesn’t need another 18 year old with the youth it has it is set bring in help to get over the hump. If you do trade 10 it isn’t going to shorten the window or cause cap troubles

 

[Devils731]

If you do trade 10 it isn’t going to shorten the window or cause cap troubles

It likely does, at least window shortening, maybe not cap problems but it may remove a future cap helper.

For example, some fans would be ok trading 10 for Markstrom because the team needs a goalie. Doing the trade may end up barely helping you over the next 2 years and it does eat up cap.

Keeping 10 means you gamble on someone who may have a better next season than Markstrom. Also, you hopefully in 2 years have a guy making a positive impact, making ELC money, which allows you to spend money elsewhere.

——————

Obviously there are other scenarios out there, this is just one. In most scenarios you are trading future value for present value. The #10 has a lot of future value so you better not short change yourself on present value the way some fans are willing to do.

If someone says the Devils “can’t keep the pick” or “must trade it” then I think those people are willing to take an immense loss in a trade just do something for next season.

 

[TheUnseenHand]

Fancy word for crapshoot. Of course it’s less of a crap shoot the higher you go but still no one knows how well or when or if these kids will produce even at 1

I'd argue any goalie we aquire with any number of games played in the NHL is a bigger crapshoot.

All truth and been said before this team doesn’t need another 18 year old with the youth it has it is set bring in help to get over the hump. If you do trade 10 it isn’t going to shorten the window or cause cap troubles

The hump of just making the playoffs consistently? You get over the hump of not winning the Cup. We aren't even to the hump yet. No goalie is bringing us to and pushing us over it right now.

 

[SteveCangialosi123]

.

All truth and been said before this team doesn’t need another 18 year old with the youth it has it is set bring in help to get over the hump. If you do trade 10 it isn’t going to shorten the window or cause cap troubles

the team is definitely in need of young cheap talent. That will certainly be even more the case when it’s time to pay Luke and Nemec. That’s when a player we pick at 10 is likely ready to make significant contributions too.

 

[Guttersniped]

Or maybe our own Goaltender coach is that much worse than Nashville and the Rags?

That's also a possibility.

They are without a doubt significantly better, though both are getting up there in age and Korn moved up to Director of Goaltending years ago.

A number of people think they both should go into the Hall of Fame as builders, along with the other Allaire brother, Francois.

Korn is Barry Trotz guy, and was with the Caps (2014-18) and Isles (2018-24) too, so he contributed more directly to our misery. Benoit has been with the Rangers since 2004.

Even Francois made our lives worse by coaching up Giguere in 2003.

We should try to get a better one obviously.

 

[JimEIV]

Disagree. The window is now. We can't wait till Jack is 30 to start pushing for the cup. Just because there's trades made for veteran help doesn't mean it's trading away the future. The core is Jack/Luke/Meier/Nico/Bratt/Nemec. It's time to push forward with that and no one will be replacing them realistically. We can supplement the rest of the roster with role players with good drafting and you don't need 1st round picks for that.



Is there anything good about this guy?

"The core is Jack/Luke/Meier/Nico/Bratt/Nemec. "

Yup.

The problem is Luke and Nemec need more seasoning and there is very little else behind the core and nothing in the pipeline.

That's not an open window scenario in my opinion.

 

[StevenToddIves]

Goaltending is a tremendous problem on this team he tried to fix it already and it failed. So if he doesn’t want to “big game” hunt then that’s on him

The best goalie to change teams in the past 3 seasons has been Adin Hill. At the time Hill was traded, no one wanted him and the return was a 4th round pick. That was 3 years ago.

There is a dearth of goalie talent in the league right now. This is to say that Markstrom and Ulmark probably wouldn't even have been starter-level goaltenders 15 years ago in the NHL. Saros is not being traded.

Fitzgerald did not fail, there were simply no goalies to be found on the market.

 

[TheUnseenHand]

Stuart Skinner has a legitimate chance to win the Cup. Seriously. That should tell you all you need to know about the goaltending depth in the league.

 

[My3Sons]

"The core is Jack/Luke/Meier/Nico/Bratt/Nemec. "

Yup.

The problem is Luke and Nemec need more seasoning and there is very little else behind the core and nothing in the pipeline.

That's not an open window scenario in my opinion.

There are a number of solid defense prospects in the pipeline. Maybe nobody up to the level of Luke and Nemec but plenty of potential guys one or two of whom may manage to become a second pair talent. Up front I'd agree it's maybe a handful of complementary wing prospects and of course no centers.

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

"The core is Jack/Luke/Meier/Nico/Bratt/Nemec. "

Yup.

The problem is Luke and Nemec need more seasoning and there is very little else behind the core and nothing in the pipeline.

That's not an open window scenario in my opinion.

yeah how will we ever survive with the 2 best U-21 Dmen in the sport

if the window isn't NOW, then when is it?

 

[NjdevilfanJim]

Disagree. The window is now. We can't wait till Jack is 30 to start pushing for the cup. Just because there's trades made for veteran help doesn't mean it's trading away the future. The core is Jack/Luke/Meier/Nico/Bratt/Nemec. It's time to push forward with that and no one will be replacing them realistically. We can supplement the rest of the roster with role players with good drafting and you don't need 1st round picks for that.



Is there anything good about this guy?

Lol Jack just turned 23 lol who said anything about 30 ?.....Nemec and Luke I guess they are ready too but too old right yeah trade everyone if we don't win this year complete rebuild with all these old guys....

Goaltending is a tremendous problem on this team he tried to fix it already and it failed. So if he doesn’t want to “big game” hunt then that’s on him

It's not the only problem the team needs to grow and the players need to play better in front of the goaltending for that to improve regardless of what goalie u bring in...

 

[SteveCangialosi123]

"The core is Jack/Luke/Meier/Nico/Bratt/Nemec. "

Yup.

The problem is Luke and Nemec need more seasoning and there is very little else behind the core and nothing in the pipeline.

That's not an open window scenario in my opinion.

Dougie Hamilton signed for 4 more years with Seamus Casey behind him. And Mercer wasn’t even mentioned. While he had a bad year, this a player that would be looked at as a core player, totally indispensable, during the shit Lou years. And he’s an afterthought with this group.

 

[Billdo]

"The core is Jack/Luke/Meier/Nico/Bratt/Nemec. "

Yup.

The problem is Luke and Nemec need more seasoning and there is very little else behind the core and nothing in the pipeline.

That's not an open window scenario in my opinion.

We do have a pretty barren cupboard. Outside of the top two under 21 defenseman, a bonafide under 25 superstar center, a 25 year old Selke caliber center, a 25 year old ppg winger, a 27 year old all star caliber winger, and a top pairing top 10 offensive defenseman we're pretty much screwed.

 

[MartyOwns]

i read some of the posts on here and just shake my head. i’m very relieved fitz seems to understand that our window is as open as we want it to be right now.

 

[JimEIV]

Perhaps I don't understand the meaning of "open window"?

To me that means we are ready to compete for a cup now.

Anyone that thinks this organization is ready to compete for a cup now is delusional....Fitz included.