Confirmed with Link: Devils acquire Vitek Vanecek and 46th Overall pick from WSH for 37th Overall pick and 70th Overall pick

[Devs3cups]

I say start with Vanecek.

Blackwood deserves very little benefit of the doubt with how his last two years went.

And his return from injury, while I don't think it's enough to say he will or won't be better this year based on those games, the last game was an embarrassment.

That finale against Detroit embodied everything about how f***ed Blackwood's play has been for the last 55 games.

I didn't think he was THAT bad against Ottawa in his first start back from injury. He allowed 5 goals on 30-something shots I think and one softy on the power play.

His game against Detroit pissed me off so much. If you go back and read the GDT you'll see everytime his save percentage went above .900% for that game he kept allowing another goal to knock it right back down. And I was calling it every time. ''Welp, he's back up above .900% for the game, in before yet another goal'' and it's almost ridiculous how it just kept happening. It was so predictable.

I think we really need to think about who we start early in the year and how the tandem is managed. We haven't had as many problems starting the season in a hole over the last 10 years as we have starting out good and ending up in a hole. Save for the 13-14 season and the start to the 19-20 season. It's usually us treading water for a month or two and plumetting. That was the case the last two years, as well as 18-19, 16-17, 14-15, 12-13, all non-playoff years. I think in Hynes first season we might have also lost the first 3 or 4 before turning it around and treading water until Valentine's Day.

When you say Blackwood’s play the last 2 years, do you consider that he was and even played while injured for a huge chunk of the year?

 

[JrFischer54]

This is literally baseless. You repeating it over and over doesnt make it true,

Trading draft picks for a semi proven player looking to grow into a larger role on this team. Not knowing how it will work out?

 

[devilsblood]

We paid a 2nd and 3rd round pick for this player

You let him f***ing play

None of this bullshit placating Blackwood or trying to let him get on a run. See, we've done enough of that shit over the last decade. Starting with sending the 9th overall pick for Cory Schneider, only to start him in barely just over half the games the next year, despite missing not even a week due to injury. All so we could play Marty, who was 41 years old and not any good anymore.

Then when Blackwood was first called up in 18-19 and Kinkaid got traded away, we had to alternate them starts down the stretch. Rather than see more of what we had in Blackwood, who we let make the team out of camp the next year. All so we could give pity starts to a washed up Schneider who had a 100+ game stretch resume of poor goaltending by that point.

Blackwood was going to be here anyway. He's under contract regardless. But he's also no legend (like Brodeur) or anywhere near best player in the history of the organization, and he's also not under contract for 3 more years after this like Schneider was.

No need to give him pity starts, no need to placate him. No need to kiss his ass.

1) As has been noted we didn't trade a 2nd and a 3rd for Vanecek.

2) You are saying just above let these guys earn the minutes. If Blackwood is way better then Vanecek, I don't care that we traded a 3rd+ for him, Blackwood should play more.

 

[Devs3cups]

Are you insane. You really thinking trading for gusev signaled a change from rebuild to win now? Lol that is so amazing lol. Grabber and maroon were added at the deadline. You know for a playoff push. That didn’t exactly mean he thought the rebuild was over either but rather why not try to WIN and make the playoffs? Man these tales are ultra hot even by hf standards

No, I’m not insane. You have a weird way of talking to people on here…

If Shero really thought this team was in a full rebuilding mode, he wouldn’t have given up 2nd/3rd round picks and prospects like they were candy for players like Subban and Gusev and rentals like Grabner and Maroon. We simply see it differently and that’s absolutely fine.

 

[SKNJD9]

If Blackwood is healthy and gets back to where he was 2 yrs ago he should be the starter an play the majority of the games... but its a big if. Nice to have Vanny there to keep Mack honest

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

Trading draft picks for a semi proven player looking to grow into a larger role on this team. Not knowing how it will work out?

why didnt you bring up Kyle PAlmieri? Or Jonas Siegenthaler?

oh, right.

 

[Bleedred]

1) As has been noted we didn't trade a 2nd and a 3rd for Vanecek.

2) You are saying just above let these guys earn the minutes. If Blackwood is way better then Vanecek, I don't care that we traded a 3rd+ for him, Blackwood should play more.

Well, we kind of did trade our second, but we got theirs (3 spots back) back in exchange.

Sure, if Blackwood is better than Vanecek (I wouldn't bet much on it, but I also wouldn't rule it out) then you play him more.

Vanecek does need to be given first crack though. Unless he gets blown up a bunch in the preseason when he plays and Blackwood is playing well.

If Blackwood is healthy and gets back to where he was 2 yrs ago he should be the starter an play the majority of the games... but its a big if. Nice to have Vanny there to keep Mack honest

If he plays the way he did 2 years ago (.915% but let's say .913% with the couple point drop in save percentage since that year and assuming it doesn't change much for this year) then sure, he can be the starter.

If he's struggling to stay above or maintain .900%-.905%? No way.

 

[Guadana]

Well, we kind of did trade our second, but we got theirs (3 spots back) back in exchange.

Sure, if Blackwood is better than Vanecek (I wouldn't bet much on it, but I also wouldn't rule it out) then you play him more.

Vanecek does need to be given first crack though. Unless he gets blown up a bunch in the preseason when he plays and Blackwood is playing well.


If he plays the way he did 2 years ago (.915% but let's say .913% with the couple point drop in save percentage since that year and assuming it doesn't change much for this year) then sure, he can be the starter.

If he's struggling to stay above or maintain .900%-.905%? No way.

Man, cmon. Retirement and injuries. No one can be aman who see the future. Fitz traded for good 5on5 goalie - where we were bad.
I believe they will use
Vanecek in 40-45 games
Blackwood in 25-30 games
Daws in 2-5 may be 7 games if he will be good
Schmidt in 2-3 games
And Bernier in 1-2 games may be.

If Blackwood will be good enough, they will give him more games. He isn't starter, but I can believe now with healthy Vanecek devils will find a way a better way of using of Blackwood without getting him hurt. After year we will see what kind of options will have on the market. May be Boston will decide to start rebuild or something like that. Or Daws will start to show promises on the nhl level and we could start to use him as a backup for Vanecek.
I want another good goalie too, but they are not grow on trees, there are a lot more teams who need goalie, than good goalies. Fitz made great move to race for good one before find himself in the mud.

If Vanecek will hurt and Blackwood will play badly, will see what kind of moves Fitz will or will not do. I don't like we drafted Hauser over Mayorov, but it doesn't help in the next 4 5 years anyway. Vanecek have more experience than Husso in nhl, Campbell doesn't have much more experience in nhl. Its a good move. Will see how things will going. This market doesn't give us really better options. Kuemper? After Schneider, Blackwood and Bernier I can't understand how Devils fan can stand for this.

 

[Bleedred]

Man, cmon. Retirement and injuries. No one can be aman who see the future. Fitz traded for good 5on5 goalie - where we were bad.
I believe they will use
Vanecek in 40-45 games
Blackwood in 25-30 games
Daws in 2-5 may be 7 games if he will be good
Schmidt in 2-3 games
And Bernier in 1-2 games may be.

If Blackwood will be good enough, they will give him more games. He isn't starter, but I can believe now with healthy Vanecek devils will find a way a better way of using of Blackwood without getting him hurt. After year we will see what kind of options will have on the market. May be Boston will decide to start rebuild or something like that. Or Daws will start to show promises on the nhl level and we could start to use him as a backup for Vanecek.
I want another good goalie too, but they are not grow on trees, there are a lot more teams who need goalie, than good goalies. Fitz made great move to race for good one before find himself in the mud.

If Vanecek will hurt and Blackwood will play badly, will see what kind of moves Fitz will or will not do. I don't like we drafted Hauser over Mayorov, but it doesn't help in the next 4 5 years anyway. Vanecek have more experience than Husso in nhl, Campbell doesn't have much more experience in nhl. Its a good move. Will see how things will going. This market doesn't give us really better options. Kuemper? After Schneider, Blackwood and Bernier I can't understand how Devils fan can stand for this.

I'd like to see 50 games for Vanecek, unless Blackwood deserves to play more games, thus knocking down the games played for Vanecek. I like the move for Vanecek, I don't like Blackwood enough, unless he wants to prove the last two years were a fluke. And then I even get a little squirmy thinking about what kind of deal he can potentially get based off of one good season, only to possibly revert back to being poor the next year.

I'd like to not see Daws play any games this year in the NHL in the regular season, but 2-5 games wouldn't be terrible, but hopefully Bernier still being back that might help to keep that from happening.

 

[Guadana]

I'd like to see 50 games for Vanecek, unless Blackwood deserves to play more games, thus knocking down the games played for Vanecek. I like the move for Vanecek, I don't like Blackwood enough, unless he wants to prove the last two years were a fluke. And then I even get a little squirmy thinking about what kind of deal he can potentially get based off of one good season, only to possibly revert back to being poor the next year.

I'd like to not see Daws play any games this year in the NHL in the regular season, but 2-5 games wouldn't be terrible, but hopefully Bernier still being back that might help to keep that from happening.

I'm not against to use Vanecek in 50 games, but I think even good teams use their bad backups in 25 games and even more. I don't like to overuse Vanecek. I believe he has potential to be good regular goalie at least. I believe we did broke Schneider and Blackwood this way.

I think 2-5 games for ahl goalies is a good way to watch their actual form in nhl context. Less if they are not good, more (4-5) if they are good.

I think they will try Bernier in a couple of games at least, but I would be surprised if he will handle it. If he will bounce back and return in the second half of the season and play on the 90.3+ level, it could make this team play off runner.

Hope we will not put some goalie on the waiver because of trying to save Gersteen on the roster.

 

[JrFischer54]

No, I’m not insane. You have a weird way of talking to people on here…

If Shero really thought this team was in a full rebuilding mode, he wouldn’t have given up 2nd/3rd round picks and prospects like they were candy for players like Subban and Gusev and rentals like Grabner and Maroon. We simply see it differently and that’s absolutely fine.

Man if you think that’s going in and abandoned a rebuild woah I dunno what to tell you. Btw if Shero actually believed the rebuild was over man that guy should never get another job in hockey even working concessions would be too much for him lol.

why didnt you bring up Kyle PAlmieri? Or Jonas Siegenthaler?

oh, right.

It’s exactly like that too. Now your getting it. Jump to conclusions much?

 

[Team Concept]

This will make Bleedred happy:

Career shootout save percentage:

Vanecek 29/35 82.8%
Blackwood 42/64 65.6%

Does anyone have access to their career won-loss record in shootouts?

 

[Devs3cups]

Man if you think that’s going in and abandoned a rebuild woah I dunno what to tell you. Btw if Shero actually believed the rebuild was over man that guy should never get another job in hockey even working concessions would be too much for him lol.

It’s probably not “abandoning” the rebuild, but it’s certainly not reinforcing it, or even keeping track of it really. I just don’t see why he would give up young prospects and assets for aging players if he was 100% committed to a true rebuild, wether it’s a rental or not.

 

[Camille the Eel]

There is a big difference between 41 games like @Team Concept suggested and 65 games.

Forget staying healthy, I don't have faith Blackwood will perform well if healthy any more than I do that he'll stay healthy.

I think he's no count. I think he SUCKS to put it nicely.

And I was referring to the stretch late in the season. I'm pretty sure they alternated starts between Schneider and Blackwood after Kinkaid got sent away post deadline.

I don't think either of them started consecutive games from that point and if they did, it wasn't a whole lot.

That's when we gave Schneider the bullshit pity starts and Rayjean Shero snorted all the Cory dust and (remember the .920% over his last 15-20 games or whatever it was?), should have f***ing bought him out and lost his job before he could.

Between February 27th and the end of the season on April 6th, neither Schneider nor Blackwood played consecutive games for the rest of the year. They alternated every game, no matter how well they played or not played. I forgot to count exactly how many games there were in total in this stretch, but I'm pretty sure I counted 4 back to backs.

This really does cut to the chase - because the whole back and forth on this thread reduces to what one thinks of Blackwood. And I have never seen why he was considered so promising. I get it that he is said to have been playing hurt and that the season before last or the one before that he was better for a hot stretch before he got his teeth knocked out. But I’ve never seen elite number one play from him for more than a hot streak.

He came up and was hot for a while and then the league figured him out. As the league tends to do.

I would like to see him earn the number one job next year with top level play but to me, at training camp the job is wide open. He or Vanecek or anyone else who walks in the door can win it. He’s no presumptive number one because I can’t even remember a time when he played like a number one goalie for a decent NHL club.

 

[Normal Devil]

Nobody should want to see 50 games from Vanecek.

 

[JrFischer54]

It’s probably not “abandoning” the rebuild, but it’s certainly not reinforcing it, or even keeping track of it really. I just don’t see why he would give up young prospects and assets for aging players if he was 100% committed to a true rebuild, wether it’s a rental or not.

The “rentals” are for a playoff run. What did you want him to sell off at the deadline when the team had the hart trophy winner on it? What did we lose out for anyone by trading those picks did they even turn into anything impactful? Honest question but did any of the picks he gave up amount to anything in any of the trades?

Nobody should want to see 50 games from Vanecek.

Well I don’t know if I want to see Blackwood for 50 either. Ugh

 

[Bleedred]

Nobody should want to see 50 games from Vanecek.

Why? He's been a better goalie than Blackwood the last two years.

 

[Bleedred]

This really does cut to the chase - because the whole back and forth on this thread reduces to what one thinks of Blackwood. And I have never seen why he was considered so promising. I get it that he is said to have been playing hurt and that the season before last or the one before that he was better for a hot stretch before he got his teeth knocked out. But I’ve never seen elite number one play from him for more than a hot streak.

He came up and was hot for a while and then the league figured him out. As the league tends to do.

I would like to see him earn the number one job next year with top level play but to me, at training camp the job is wide open. He or Vanecek or anyone else who walks in the door can win it. He’s no presumptive number one because I can’t even remember a time when he played like a number one goalie for a decent NHL club.

I mean, he showed promise, but hockey fans seem to fall in love with goalies and give them more rope than a skater player.

I'm the answer to the opposing point of view on that.

I watched Ty Smith get dragged through it on here all year long, for GOOD reason, mind you.

But even he had a good season in 20-21, but there's a contingent that wants him gone this coming year and not on the team moving forward, as if he's never shown any promise and as if he hasn't been better more recently than Blackwood has.

I'm not even trying to be pro-Ty Smith here. Just trying to point a noticeable bias and tolerance I've noticed among goalies.

And like I said, I'm the answer to the opposing viewpoint on that.

When a mediocre or average goalie plays well (like for a game or a stretch) he gets praised for it much more than when a middling defenseman or forward has a good stretch.

This is why apparently when you listen to the pundits, there aren't many bad goalies in the NHL. When Mike Condon has a good game or a good week, you get to hear about it from Kevin Weekes.

I always hear ''(insert painfully average goalie's name) is a (very) good goalie''.

Blackwood had a promising first two years in the NHL, but what he didn't have was a good AHL career and his last two years (injured or not) are starting to bring back memories of that mediocre to bad AHL career and making you wonder if maybe he's just not very good?

Some people here (obviously not everybody and obviously not me) tend to give goalies more rope. So they'll forgive a bad season from Blackwood or Schneider (or two or three) over a bad season from say .....Ty Smith? Or Andreas Johnsson?

When Cory Schneider starts a declining in his early 30's, he's given far more leash, as well as far more faith and hope that he will come out of the other side of it than an early 30's defenseman like, say, PK Subban.

And then you get the rationalization like recently ''Darcy Kuemper didn't have such great numbers in the playoffs, but he was good when he had to be''. Good when he had to be? That's more like a good way to describe a goalie that actually played well, but didn't have to stand on his head to win the playoff series.

And look no further than how long a goalie gets to stay in the league and keeps getting contracts based on past reputations. We continue to see Martin Jones (will we yet again in 22-23?) Korpisalo, Brian Elliott and countless others get signed EVERY year for the NHL, despite no recent success.

Craig Anderson is ancient, 40-something years old, hasn't had a good season in 5 years now, he keeps getting signed. He's gonna wind up playing at least 3 years later than Lundqvist did and almost a whole year older.

 

[Devs3cups]

The “rentals” are for a playoff run. What did you want him to sell off at the deadline when the team had the hart trophy winner on it? What did we lose out for anyone by trading those picks did they even turn into anything impactful? Honest question but did any of the picks he gave up amount to anything in any of the trades?

If he thought we were in a rebuild, he probably could’ve just stayed put and not given up future assets. If I remember correctly, we weren’t in the worst spot to make the postseason.

What the assets given up became is irrelevant, since maybe with those picks we pick a valuable player ourselves, or the prospects become something. Also, the players we got in those trades really didn’t bring anything to us in the end.

In total, in about 1 year, for the Grabner, Maroon, Subban and Gusev trades, Shero gave up:

Y. Rykov
J.D. Dudek
J. Davies
S. Santini
4 2nd round picks
2 3rd round pick

Rebuilding GM’s don’t usually give up 4 2nd rounders and 4 prospects for rentals and aging players.

 

[Team Concept]

Nobody should want to see 50 games from Vanecek.

Wow after Bleedred blasted me for proposing that the two have an even split next season I looked at goalie starts last season and I believe it was 26 netminders got the majority of the starts last season for their respective teams. Koskinen was 26th on the list with 43 starts and then there was a drop off to the Vanesek-Samsonov tandem who each got 39 starts for the Caps.

So it appears one of the two will most likely get +41 starts next season. We don't know which one at the moment. Unless Bernier comes back midseason. Wouldn't it be nice if all 3 were on top of their games?

 

[Normal Devil]

Why? He's been a better goalie than Blackwood the last two years.

Vanecek was on a much better team though. I think he's just a rotational goalie .. I'd say 40 starts is about max you'd want. I think the hope is that Blackwood has a big bounce back year and can post numbers like he did pre COVID.

 

[JrFischer54]

If he thought we were in a rebuild, he probably could’ve just stayed put and not given up future assets. If I remember correctly, we weren’t in the worst spot to make the postseason.

What the assets given up became is irrelevant, since maybe with those picks we pick a valuable player ourselves, or the prospects become something. Also, the players we got in those trades really didn’t bring anything to us in the end.

In total, in about 1 year, for the Grabner, Maroon, Subban and Gusev trades, Shero gave up:

Y. Rykov
J.D. Dudek
J. Davies
S. Santini
4 2nd round picks
2 3rd round pick

Rebuilding GM’s don’t usually give up 4 2nd rounders and 4 prospects for rentals and aging players.

We made the playoffs by a point on the next to last game of the season. So it was definitely not a sure thing. Your argument would be better if he gave up value which he certainly didn’t. When your giving up firsts then you can tell me he wasn’t serious about a rebuild. 2nd and beyond is a crapshoot and you know that so just stop.

Btw maroon and grabber def had a hand in making the playoffs. How much? Debatable.

Suban however bad he might be on the ice did just won king clancy which I would think is huge for a team of young players

So really not terrible in the grand scheme of things.

 

[Devs3cups]

We made the playoffs by a point on the next to last game of the season. So it was definitely not a sure thing. Your argument would be better if he gave up value which he certainly didn’t. When your giving up firsts then you can tell me he wasn’t serious about a rebuild. 2nd and beyond is a crapshoot and you know that so just stop.

Btw maroon and grabber def had a hand in making the playoffs. How much? Debatable.

Suban however bad he might be on the ice did just won king clancy which I would think is huge for a team of young players

So really not terrible in the grand scheme of things.

2nd round picks are pretty valuable imo and aren’t a crapshoot, especially when you give up 4 of them in just over a year. As I said, whether or not the picks we gave up became anything is irrelevant since maybe we would’ve drafted something of value with them.

Grabner was pretty terrible and Maroon wasn’t all that noticeable with us. I wouldn’t call giving Rykov, a 2nd and a 3rd for them all that great, but it’s whatever, I won’t die on that hill.

Subban hasn’t really brought anything. I don’t mind him at all and if he wants to stay on the 3rd pair next year I’m down, but he hasn’t brought us something really good either way. I don’t put a lot or value in his Clancy award.

Anyways, my main point is that a GM giving up those kinds of assets doesn’t really have a rebuild on his mind as much as you say he does. The type of players picked up also plays in the equation. If Shero traded those assets for younger prospects or players, I could see it as a rebuilding move. Trading them for an aging Subban and Gusev and 2 average rentals in Grabner and Maroon doesn’t really add up with rebuilding. It’s fine if we disagree though, I think our own perception of what a rebuild is and what actions determine a rebuild are different.

 

[PKs Broken Stick]

This will make Bleedred happy:

Career shootout save percentage:

Vanecek 29/35 82.8%
Blackwood 42/64 65.6%

Does anyone have access to their career won-loss record in shootouts?

Blackwood was awful at shootouts. I've never seen a goalie bite so easily at fakes before, it was quite embarrassing honestly.

 

[LoktionovMVP]

Hate Fitz but this is a good deal. Way better than giving 5x5 to Campbell or something which carries too much risk