Devils 2021 team discussion (news, notes and speculation) - part XXVII

[devilsblood]

The Sedin Twins and the 1999 NHL Entry Draft (thehockeywriters.com)

"Most general managers recognized the potential benefit of having the Sedin twins play together, not the least of which was creating a stronger chance that they would sign in the NHL and leave their native land for a long career in the NHL. The Sedins and their agent, Mike Barnett, made it clear they wanted to play together."

 

[MartyOwns]

Scott Niedermayer joins Anaheim | CBC Sports

Niedermayer reportedly rejected a more lucrative offer from the Devils, but wanted to team up in the NHL with younger brother Rob, who re-signed with Anaheim for four years and $8 million US.
"Since I was 16 and he was 15, we've been apart," Scott explained. "But now we can be together again.
"I was probably the happiest guy around," added Rob.

but we own jack for how many more years? any scenario you're talking about is happening so far down the line, it shouldn't be a drafting consideration. jack could be traded 4 years from now, he could die of dysentery in a few months.

if they think hughes is the better player then by all means take him, but his brother should have nothing to do with it. since you brought up nieds, let me also say that if hughes plays a key role in winning us 3 cups, he can merrily go play in his brother's treehouse and i won't hold it against him.

 

[Darkauron]

I guess Quinn hughes is going to leave Vancouver because he is the first person to FA and will be coming to the devils then since we have a hughes. zomg it works both ways!!!!!!!!

 

[TheDuke93]

Scott Niedermayer joins Anaheim | CBC Sports

Niedermayer reportedly rejected a more lucrative offer from the Devils, but wanted to team up in the NHL with younger brother Rob, who re-signed with Anaheim for four years and $8 million US.
"Since I was 16 and he was 15, we've been apart," Scott explained. "But now we can be together again.
"I was probably the happiest guy around," added Rob.

He said at one point the year before his arbitration that he would have signed a deal for less then that but Lou wouldn't give it to him. Lou burned that bridge.

 

[devilsblood]

but we own jack for how many more years? any scenario you're talking about is happening so far down the line, it shouldn't be a drafting consideration. jack could be traded 4 years from now, he could die of dysentery in a few months.

if they think hughes is the better player then by all means take him, but his brother should have nothing to do with it. since you brought up nieds, let me also say that if hughes plays a key role in winning us 3 cups, he can merrily go play in his brother's treehouse and i won't hold it against him.

1)What do I consider more likely? Trading Jack in 4 years, or trying to resign him to a long term deal in 4(or whenever that comes up). The latter, by a wide spread.

2)And the debate here is whether you draft Hughes if all things are equal, or at least razor thin close. It's not whether you draft a guy destined for the 20th pick at 5. It's whether your drafting a guy who is ranked to go somewhere between 3-7(or whatever) over another guy who is ranked to go between 3-7.

3)I don't hold it against Nieds either, but if he had won a 4th cup and a Norris here in NJ, retired a lifer, I would hold him a little higher esteem.

 

[Triumph]

I can't see half of this conversation but Quinn Hughes is eligible to be a UFA the same year as Jack. Odds are they will not end up UFA the same year, contracts being what they are, but they're both eligible to do so in July 2026.

All else being equal, the Devils should obviously pick Luke Hughes, but all else is so seldom equal. It shouldn't be a huge consideration. That said, if Vancouver plausibly has a chance to draft him....

 

[SteveCangialosi123]

I could only see it damaging the relationship with Jack if we have a chance to pick Luke and we pass on him and the player we pick stinks or is just average and Luke turns into a star. I could see that really pissing him off.

 

[devilsblood]

He said at one point the year before his arbitration that he would have signed a deal for less then that but Lou wouldn't give it to him. Lou burned that bridge.

End of the day he signed for less money to play with his brother.

 

[MartyOwns]

1)What do I consider more likely? Trading Jack in 4 years, or trying to resign him to a long term deal in 4(or whenever that comes up). The latter, by a wide spread.

so this is why i asked about your scenarios early on. if jack doesn't want to be here, we will trade him. we will not let him walk for nothing like lou did with nieds. and if vancouver wants him so badly, that means we hold all the cards and can get a ransom.

2)And the debate here is whether you draft Hughes if all things are equal, or at least razor thin close. It's not whether you draft a guy destined for the 20th pick at 5. It's whether your drafting a guy who is ranked to go somewhere between 3-7(or whatever) over another guy who is ranked to go between 3-7.

but they can't be equal, we need a top pairing RD to pair nicely with all the LD we have coming up. that's enough of an edge to clarke for me. if we draft hughes, i want it to be based on merit- meaning, we should draft him if he is the better defenseman.

3)I don't hold it against Nieds either, but if he had won a 4th cup and a Norris here in NJ, retired a lifer, I would hold him a little higher esteem.

i understand, but surely you know my point is that the 2 situations are not the same. jack hughes hasn't accomplished jack shit yet, and we're letting some possible future scenario dictate who we draft? we just can't do that

 

[devilsblood]

I could only see it damaging the relationship with Jack if we have a chance to pick Luke and we pass on him and the player we pick stinks or is just average and Luke turns into a star. I could see that really pissing him off.

Let's just say it doesn't really piss him off, but it does leave a slight negative thought. As a opposed to a slight positive thought.

If Jack Hughes is the franchise corner stone we hope him to be, why not factor in that potential positive vs that potential negative?

The talent of Jack Hughes, imo, makes an otherwise slight factor, something fairly significant.

 

[devilsblood]

but they can't be equal, we need a top pairing RD to pair nicely with all the LD we have coming up. that's enough of an edge to clarke for me. if we draft hughes, i want it to be based on merit- meaning, we should draft him if he is the better defenseman.

This is a pretty strong counter point. I think Power too, given his (purported) size and style may have an edge as well(that is if we don't think the bigger D prospects are not going to be impact players).

But I have to concede that is a strong consideration as well.

Edit:I don't even want to consider having to trade Jack to Van in 4 years. That is a doomsday scenario, and if drafting Luke helps in anyway to avoid that, then big plus to the draft Luke side of the debate.

 

[SteveCangialosi123]

Let's just say it doesn't really piss him off, but it does leave a slight negative thought. As a opposed to a slight positive thought.

If Jack Hughes is the franchise corner stone we hope him to be, why not factor in that potential positive vs that potential negative?

The talent of Jack Hughes, imo, makes an otherwise slight factor, something fairly significant.

I do consider it a factor. I think I’d pick him no matter where we’re selecting based on his elite skating, though. And some publications have him as the top guy.

 

[devilsblood]

I can't see half of this conversation but Quinn Hughes is eligible to be a UFA the same year as Jack. Odds are they will not end up UFA the same year, contracts being what they are, but they're both eligible to do so in July 2026.

All else being equal, the Devils should obviously pick Luke Hughes, but all else is so seldom equal. It shouldn't be a huge consideration. That said, if Vancouver plausibly has a chance to draft him....

This is one of my arguments against the steadfast BPA crew. It's very often not clear as to who is better. Thus you get these groupings of players, or ranges in which a player could be drafted.

So yeah, "all things being equal" is probably a very rare scenario, but you never really know it one way or another.

 

[devilsblood]

I do consider it a factor. I think I’d pick him no matter where we’re selecting based on his elite skating, though. And some publications have him as the top guy.

Ya, I understood, I was kind of parsing your point, not arguing against it.

 

[MartyOwns]

This is a pretty strong counter point. I think Power too, given his (purported) size and style may have an edge as well(that is if we don't think the bigger D prospects are not going to be impact players).

But I have to concede that is a strong consideration as well.

Edit:I don't even want to consider having to trade Jack to Van in 4 years. That is a doomsday scenario, and if drafting Luke helps in anyway to avoid that, then big plus to the draft Luke side of the debate.

one way or another, if a team ever gets 3 of them they are eventually going to be tying up a loooot of cap space in 3 guys. that's more doomsday to me than potentially trading a guy to vancouver for a very good return so that guy can piss away his career playing for a forgettable, largely irrelevant franchise.

 

[TheDuke93]

This is a pretty strong counter point. I think Power too, given his (purported) size and style may have an edge as well(that is if we don't think the bigger D prospects are not going to be impact players).

But I have to concede that is a strong consideration as well.

Edit:I don't even want to consider having to trade Jack to Van in 4 years. That is a doomsday scenario, and if drafting Luke helps in anyway to avoid that, then big plus to the draft Luke side of the debate.

Luke would probably be #5 or #6 as far as prospects go for me personally.

 

[devilsblood]

one way or another, if a team ever gets 3 of them they are eventually going to be tying up a loooot of cap space in 3 guys. that's more doomsday to me than potentially trading a guy to vancouver for a very good return so that guy can piss away his career playing for a forgettable, largely irrelevant franchise.

If Jack is as good as we think he could be, it's very unlikely we win that trade. I'd argue that if Jack wants out, we really don't hold a strong hand in that scenario.

And I'd be OK with Jack and Luke, while Quinn plays in Vac. Maybe get Quinn when he's 32 or something and he wants to join the Hughes Dynasty that has been built here in NJ.

 

[devilsblood]

Luke would probably be #5 or #6 as far as prospects go for me personally.

Outside of knowing he is somewhere in the top7 mix, along with 2 other d, I really don't know the details.

 

[Poppy Whoa Sonnet]

I am generally against "big braining" draft picks but Vancouver possibly drafting Luke Hughes is terrifying.

 

[Billdo]

Wait is this a no they shouldn't skip over him or no they shouldn't care?

They shouldn't care. If all things are equal between Hughes and another player that's fine. If they think Hughes is a B+ prospect and the other is an A- and they pick Hughes to appease Jack then to me that's a disservice to the club as a whole.

 

[Nico Hischier]

I can't see half of this conversation but Quinn Hughes is eligible to be a UFA the same year as Jack. Odds are they will not end up UFA the same year, contracts being what they are, but they're both eligible to do so in July 2026.

All else being equal, the Devils should obviously pick Luke Hughes, but all else is so seldom equal. It shouldn't be a huge consideration. That said, if Vancouver plausibly has a chance to draft him....

How is that possible? Quinn’s entry level deal expires after this season and Jack’s entry level deal expires after the end of next season. It would seem that Quinn can be a ufa one season before jack is ufa

 

[Hisch13r]

I am generally against "big braining" draft picks but Vancouver possibly drafting Luke Hughes is terrifying.

Going off of pt% as of now they’d be picking 11th. I wouldn’t worry about it except for the outside chance of a lottery win or Luke slipping super far due to his foot

 

[Hisch13r]

I really don’t think there’s enough separation at the top that them prioritizing Luke matters. It’s not like he’d even be a reach if someone took him 1OA

 

[Billdo]

I guess Quinn hughes is going to leave Vancouver because he is the first person to FA and will be coming to the devils then since we have a hughes. zomg it works both ways!!!!!!!!

Hughes is going to be on the Rangers and then Jack will join him. They'll always be our big brother and we will live in the shadows of their glory.

 

[NJ07102]

I guess Quinn hughes is going to leave Vancouver because he is the first person to FA and will be coming to the devils then since we have a hughes. zomg it works both ways!!!!!!!!

We should draft Luke and then trade for or sign Quinn. They could be our very own Hanson brothers!