Devils 2021 team discussion (news, notes and speculation) - part XXII

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

I’d keep both guys over Johnsson and it’s not even close. What’s up with the fact that having guys that hustle and bang is a bad thing? Hockey is a physical sport, we need guys like that in our bottom 6.

Again, it all comes down to having a balanced lineup.

you can find guys that "hustle" and "bang" quite easily.

Hischier, Bratt, Zacha, Wood, Kuokkanen are the slam dunk locks at forward. Sharangovich probably getting there as well. That leaves 1-2 spots. What I was saying was I don't care if those other 2 guys are protected or not.

 

[Camille the Eel]

Yeah agreed.

I think McLeod can really be a quality bottom six guy. I still don’t understand why he’s been sitting. I like Bastian too, but I’m holding onto McLeod over him.

I think he’s likely sitting to mull over a really weak and half hearted play or couple of shifts last Saturday against the Isles that cost us the game tying and then game losing goal in the 3d period. See him just waving at the puck before we lose possession on the tying goal. It could be - consistent with how Ruff operates - that he’s getting some time to think and refocus. Meanwhile Maltsev is playing better than Mike was and we are giving Goose a chance. So who else sits?

 

[TrufleShufle]

If we just pretend certain posts don't exist, then yes no one said that (despite people actually saying that)

People are way too quick to defend utter nonsense some folks spew on the regular.

Not everything needs a devil's advocate. Some takes are simply wrong and bad.

Posters constantly saying things people never said followed by a counter argument to that imaginary post is IMO simply much worse and bad.

So are you one of the people here that think Nico has never actually been injured?

 

[Ol Dirty Bstrd]

When Blake Coleman was Nathan Bastian and Mike McLeod's age he hadn't played a game in the NHL. Both players have already had some very strong performances this year, and it would be incredibly stupid to resign them to marginal NHLer status already. There is every reason to believe that they can build on their peaks and develop into impactful bottom six forwards.

Coleman is the exception not the rule, and neither of those players has demonstrated the goal scoring talent at any level that Blake did as a prospect

 

[Nocashstyle]

I think he’s likely sitting to mull over a really weak and half hearted play or couple of shifts last Saturday against the Isles that cost us the game tying and then game losing goal in the 3d period. See him just waving at the puck before we lose possession on the tying goal. It could be - consistent with how Ruff operates - that he’s getting some time to think and refocus. Meanwhile Maltsev is playing better than Mike was and we are giving Goose a chance. So who else sits?

Ideally Gusev. But we all know he’s probably in the line up for other reasons as well

 

[Zippy316]

When Blake Coleman was Nathan Bastian and Mike McLeod's age he hadn't played a game in the NHL. Both players have already had some very strong performances this year, and it would be incredibly stupid to resign them to marginal NHLer status already. There is every reason to believe that they can build on their peaks and develop into impactful bottom six forwards.

People always like to bring up Coleman but he is the exception, not the norm. Most players who have Coleman’s career path — don’t forget he also had one season removed from injury — generally don’t end up making the impact Coleman does.

There’s still a chance McLeod or Bastian does that, but it’s far more likely they turn into energy guys on your fourth line than an impactful checking line player.

 

[Blackjack]

can we please stop using Blake Coleman as an example of anything?

He is an outlier, not someone that should be used as a rule.

He was a late bloomer, but we're not talking about Jesper Bratt type outlier. Every team as a couple of Blake Coleman late bloomer types, and McLeod and Bastian fit the profile of a potential late bloomer very well.

 

[The Devil In I]

Posters constantly saying things people never said followed by a counter argument to that imaginary post is IMO simply much worse and bad.

So are you one of the people here that think Nico has never actually been injured?

The iron law of HF arguing - straw man everyone to death.

 

[Nocashstyle]

He was a late bloomer, but we're not talking about Jesper Bratt type outlier. Every team as a couple of Blake Coleman late bloomer types, and McLeod and Bastian fit the profile of a potential late bloomer very well.

Yeah, I think we’re still just used to terrible drafting. McLeod and Bastian will likely never become as good as Coleman, but certainly not out of the realm of possibilities that one or both become better than average bottom six guys - that’s not incredibly uncommon or rare.

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

He was a late bloomer, but we're not talking about Jesper Bratt type outlier. Every team as a couple of Blake Coleman late bloomer types, and McLeod and Bastian fit the profile of a potential late bloomer very well.

I just don't know what either of those players have shown to garner that

they are what they are at this point....4th liners/borderline NHLers

 

[Blackjack]

I just don't know what either of those players have shown to garner that

they are what they are at this point....4th liners/borderline NHLers

I mean, they've both played several strong games this season along with many games (mostly post-covid) where they were invisible. Plenty of guys show a few strong games and then flame out, a few develop into impactful bottom six forwards.

Considering that with the imminent departure of Zajac, Palmieri, and Gusev, there will continue to be room on bottom six, it seems silly to be so dismissive of their potential. If they can be protected, they should be, and they should get a shot next year.

 

[glenwo2]

I think I'm most impressed that the board is blowing up over Nico's durability, or alleged lack there of...and I'm pretty sure Jim had nothing to do with it this time.

I bet he's fishing right now.

 

[My3Sons]

Nico has definitely been unlucky that’s for sure. But injuries also happen when you play hard and don’t shy away from the action. And that’s one of the reasons we love Nico, he’s the furthest away from a floater, even if he’s not having a good game it never looks like he isn’t trying.

But luck seems like a very common explanation here. Whether it’s low shooting%, hitting the posts, pucks rolling, hot goalies, freak injuries.

I’d love if we are just unlucky and soon start winning games and scoring bunch of games.

Edit: btw Merriam-Webster:
Definition of injury-prone
: frequently injured

But I’m finnish so maybe I don’t the subtleties of the english language..

Prone can also imply tending towards, a forward looking concept as opposed to your posted definition which can only be seen in retrospect. It's tricky and both sides of this argument make good points. I do think Nico plays a tough competitive game and maybe needs to add a few muscular pounds to play it without incident. He was about 175 as a rookie and has added about 5 or 6 pounds annually if his statements are correct. That puts him about 185-190 in theory but my guess is he loses weight over the course of a long season and probably plays close to 180 most of the time. At 6'1" that is not an overly big guy even if he is in good shape. He may need to do some extra bulking up to add enough mass to lessen the bumps and bruises he suffers from time to time. I'm sure its tricky because he wants to maintain maximum flexibility and quickness.

 

[SteveCangialosi123]

5 goals 4 assists with 98 hits in 33 career games is a solid start to Bastian’s career. He needs to shoot more but I’d take that any day of the week from a 4th liner.

 

[Auto Pilot]

 

[Billdo]

View attachment 409489

What does this mean?

 

[AfroThunder396]

Coleman was a late birthday his draft year, was a 20 year old freshman and played 4 years of NCAA, turned pro at 24 and only played in 14 games his first pro season due to injury. On his 25th birthday he had played only 30 or so pro hockey games.

Bastian has +220 pro games and McLeod has +160 pro games. We have a lot more clear of a picture as to who those guys are. Yes, of course some guys break out late, but you shouldn't hold on to guys expecting that they will.

 

[glenwo2]

What does this mean?

 

[Hisch13r]

5th percentile for the PP is a killer

 

[guitarguyvic]

I offered to shift the discussion from the subjective “injury prone” semantics to something more concrete like durability. For some reason, certain folks just wanted to keep on harping about what the former does or doesn’t mean. Shocking I tell you.

 

[Derps]

good thing nobody said that. cmon man you're a mod, be better

I wouldn’t expect better lol

 

[Nocashstyle]

5 goals 4 assists with 98 hits in 33 career games is a solid start to Bastian’s career. He needs to shoot more but I’d take that any day of the week from a 4th liner.

And he’s shown a willingness to drop the gloves if he needs to. Regardless of what other’s view of fighting’s place in today’s NHL...it’s still a part of the game. It certainly doesn’t hurt to have someone that can play regular shifts and contribute, but also be there to drop the gloves if needed. Especially being in the same division as guys like Tom Wilson or now Trent Frederic, etc...

 

[SteveCangialosi123]

I offered to shift the discussion from the subjective “injury prone” semantics to something more concrete like durability. For some reason, certain folks just wanted to keep on harping about what the former does or doesn’t mean. Shocking I tell you.

Is Nico less durable than other players? Idk. He played 82 games as a teenager so I don’t think he has glass bones. Have his bones degenerated to the point that they are more likely to break? Does he have osteoporosis as a 22 year old? I don’t think so. Sounds like he just had some rotten luck this year.

‘Prone’ literally means ‘likely to suffer from’. Is he more likely to suffer injuries than anyone else? Idk. Don’t think so. Not going to worry about it.

 

[Poppy Whoa Sonnet]

5th percentile for the PP is a killer

How come no one on the team can play effectively with this guy if he's so good already? You'd think at least one Hughes line would click.

 

[Blender]

How come no one on the team can play effectively with this guy if he's so good already? You'd think at least one Hughes line would click.

"No one"? He's barely had his line rotated while we've bingo balled everyone else. He was attached to the corpse of Palmieri, now Johnsson. Play him with someone who can shoot the puck maybe? Or how about someone who can dig pucks out of the corners?