Devils 2021-22 offseason team discussion (news, notes and speculation) - part II

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Because it is a ridiculous exercise...You don't see me commenting on any of the "we should get..." post. It is typically a dumb fantasy conversation. And it 99% of the time is sounds like a child in the cereal isle...

There are many Dmen around the league I like...But I am not going to suggest getting them. There a ton of awesome under 25 defenders in the league right now...Ironically we had a crack at just about everyone of them in the draft...I am huge fan of Werenski, does that mean I am supposed to put a trade package for the entertainment of this board? That is moronic.

not for the entertainment of the board, but to lend credibility to what you're saying. you don't like the direction the team is going, so one would assume you have some different ideas on how to go about things that are better ideas than the devils front office has. you don't have to, of course.

i think the reason you don't- and werenski is a great example- is because the cost to obtain a guy like that is prohibitive. so what is the best way to get a good, under-25 defenseman? through the draft. how do you get a nice high draft pick? by rebuilding and racking up L's. you can also be opportunistic with trades. we did both, that's how we ended up with smith, bahl, muk, and clarke or hughes.

that's all i'm saying- if you have a better idea on how to improve, we would all love to hear it. if you'd rather not share, that's your prerogative.
 
Does hfboards periodically delete old threads because we could then look back and realize this conversation has happened year after year after year? :laugh:

Adjust players time in the league and add new players to crap on is about the only difference.
Don't forget the posts which talk about how we keep having the same convo's. There are like a billion of those.
 
Because it is a ridiculous exercise...You don't see me commenting on any of the "we should get..." post. It is typically a dumb fantasy conversation. And it 99% of the time is sounds like a child in the cereal isle...

There are many Dmen around the league I like...But I am not going to suggest getting them. There a ton of awesome under 25 defenders in the league right now...Ironically we had a crack at just about everyone of them in the draft...I am huge fan of Werenski, does that mean I am supposed to put a trade package for the entertainment of this board? That is moronic.
Im not part of this long-winded argument..

however I dont think theres a need to put down the idea of being imaginative. Its something many lose as adults that is a huge part of growth and creativity, so I dont think its fair to hate on those who enjoy letting their mind wander once in a while over a hockey trade package.

I fully encourage everyone to be more imaginative and friendly; too often in this world is a bland, black-and-white personality/mindset attributed to being a 'mature adult'
 
not for the entertainment of the board, but to lend credibility to what you're saying. you don't like the direction the team is going, so one would assume you have some different ideas on how to go about things that are better ideas than the devils front office has. you don't have to, of course.

i think the reason you don't- and werenski is a great example- is because the cost to obtain a guy like that is prohibitive. so what is the best way to get a good, under-25 defenseman? through the draft. how do you get a nice high draft pick? by rebuilding and racking up L's. you can also be opportunistic with trades. we did both, that's how we ended up with smith, bahl, muk, and clarke or hughes.

that's all i'm saying- if you have a better idea on how to improve, we would all love to hear it. if you'd rather not share, that's your prerogative.
Smith...Bahl wasn't our pick. I am not sure I want to taught Mukhamadullin yet, in fact that has the potential to be one we might regret. We'll see. It was certainly a controversial pick.

So Smith...All that draft capital...and Smith. That is where we are today.
 
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Smith...Bahls wasn't our pick. I am not sure I want to taught Mukhamadullin yet, in fact that has the potential to be one we might regret. We'll see. It was certainly a controversial pick.

So Smith...All that draft capital...and Smith. That is where we are today.

as i said, you also need to be opportunistic with trades. that's how we ended up with bahl. that's also how we ended up with flameouts like mueller, but it's a numbers game. some work, some don't. i was very encouraged by what i saw from bahl last year.

that's not all the draft capital, by the way. i can list the defensemen we selected over the past couple of years, but i'm assuming you already know who they are.
 
Gusev, Johanssan, Johnsson, Palmieri, Butcher, Subban, Moore
I'm Instead of looking back at some of these, we should look at who they're drafting as well. The players I left above were brought in for either a veteran leadership status (including Boyle who I left out) and to bring offense to a team that was lacking it (and still is).

I feel you can see what the team is attempting to do with their drafting in the past few years, since they seem to have a type. They're collecting smaller skilled high offensive upside forwards and defensemen who can move the puck.

In the past three drafts the defensemen have been
Bernard - 6'3" 205lbs
Okhotyuk - 6'1" 194lbs
Misyul - 6'3" 184lbs
Vukojevic - 6'3" 212 lbs
Mccarthy - 6'1" 198 lbs
Mukhamadullin - 6'2" 170lbs
Edwards - 5'11" 176lbs

You can definitely say that they're aiming towards a certain type and size of defenseman. Since odds are if half of those guys make the show you did a good job drafting, hitting on one or two of them will be great. Obviously we all saw Bahl who is 6'6" 216lbs, and they also have Walsh (6'0" 185lbs) in the system. They also targeted Siegenthaler (6'3" 210 lbs). So you have a ton of these huge defensive defensemen in the system, some of which have offensive upside but it doesn't matter since you have smaller offensively skilled guys like Smith/Walsh/Butcher to pair with these guys to try and bring back something like the good old days of Stevens/Niedermayer and Danekyo/Rafalski and stuff like that. Granted it's unlikely that even with these players we'll have that HoF backend like we used to, but I feel that thought process and design is pretty clear.

On the front end they appear to be gathering as much skill as they can get, especially with guys like Goose and Johnsson. Some work out, some don't, but gathering skill is a good thing since you can keep what works and discard what doesn't. I assume once the skilled top 6/9 guys are settled in we'll see them dealing other assets to fill in holes in the lineup, or you can allow guys to play lower in the lineup like Parise did when he broke into the league, and Holik and so on down the line. The annoying part (for everyone) is that it's just taking a lot longer than we would have liked, obviously.

I dunno, to me there appears to be a blueprint that I believe they're following so it's easier for me to sit back and think okay, maybe Mercer will click and earn a spot out the gate this year and we can see our top 6 start to solidify, or we add Luke Hughes to the stable of big bodied stay at home stable we have to get another high skilled d-man to pair them with eventually. I feel there's a lot of promise to the foundation being built, but we're still a bit away from seeing the fruits of our labor.

Sure would be nice for management to shore up the gaps with vets this year and make the team competitive though because I'm also sick of playing the Lotto at the end of every year.

For the record, I personally enjoy hearing Jim's takes on things because I think it does bring a bit of balance to my perhaps a little too optimistic point of view. I'm all about the discussion.
 
Smith...Bahls wasn't our pick. I am not sure I want to taught Mukhamadullin yet, in fact that has the potential to be one we might regret. We'll see.

So Smith...All that draft capital...and Smith. That is where we are today.

This kind of gets back to the not drafting many good forwards for a while thing though. I think part of the reason they didn't focus on defense earlier is because they were focused on forwards instead. Plus winning the lottery twice pretty much guaranteed taking a forward with both of those picks unless we traded down.
 
And yet you guys routinely get up in arms over ‘bad faith and hyperbolic’ posts. It’s doth protest too much syndrome. If everything was going swimmingly people wouldn’t care, but because the rebuild already had to be rebooted once and Nico’s production has stagnated the last three years while Jack so far has been a more dependent player than a guy with his playmaking skills should be there’s a lot of sensitivity around here with those hot button topics. So it’s easy to pick the low hanging fruit of ‘disgrace’ type comments and comparing a 20-year old to a 23-year old Parise and acting like that invalidates everything else but it’s harder to admit maybe there’s a kernel of truth to the criticism of those players and that the win now approach isn’t all bad while tanking for high picks isn’t the cure all it gets portrayed as.

Wow. That pretty much sums it up for me. I'll just sit back and watch the mayhem for a week or two.
 
Tarasenko would prob injure himself using his ntc over the phone to his agent. I love the years ago tarasenko, just not this version.
Same here but he is at a reduced cost and hopefully has a good year or two left in him . A prime never injured Tara would never become available. I’d like to take a look at how he would do if the cost is not high
 
Garland is pretty damn good. Watching him he was always dangerous and generating offence on a pretty crappy team .
I did a follow up post.

Can't say I even knew who he was let alone focused on his play. But his stats do look good.
 
So do we draft based off of duplicating the Habs roster or how can you pick players now without knowing what the winning roster formula is 2-4 years down the road ?
It appears now that having large D that can move the puck is a must . Players like Girard got exposed in the playoffs while guys like Edmundson have looked way more important . That’s why I a, somewhat optimistic with who we have coming up. By no means are we dine as we still need a stud 1d but we are getting there slowly but surely lol.

Sight Hamilton (overpay if need be)
Draft Clarke / Hughes
Wait for Holtz Foote Mercer
Get another goalie like Anderson
Trade for a top 6 winger
Wait and sit back and win cups
 
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