Devils 2020-21 team discussion (news, notes and speculation) - part VIII

[OmNomNom]

i'd be okay with a 6x6, or if we had to negotiate, 5x6.5 or 4x7 if need be. hughes, bratt, and blackwood will be issues, contract wise, going forward, but remember that we have subban and crawford coming off in 2 years to add to our current cap space

 

[ChicksDigTheTrap]

here is the Palms blurb:

What’s happening with Kyle Palmieri?

You haven’t heard Kyle Palmieri’s name out there in the offseason — and there’s a reason for that — it’s because the Devils haven’t shopped him.
At least not yet.
And while there’s been some communication between the Devils and Palmieri’s camp led by agent Brian Bartlett, there also have not been any meaningful contract talks yet either.
“Our talks have been very preliminary in nature. We’re happy to be patient to see what a fair deal is, it’s not contentious at all, we’ve got time,’’ Bartlett said Monday.
At some point, Devils GM Tom Fitzgerald will approach Bartlett and gauge what both sides feel might be a fair number as far as what an extension potentially looks like. But what you don’t know until that moment happens is whether both sides view that the same way in this pandemic market.
Palmieri, I think it’s fair to say, wants to sign an extension. He’s playing for his hometown team so this doesn’t feel like a player wanting to drive himself to market in a year.
But again, what’s a fair deal? He’s entering the final season of a five-year contract carrying a $4.65-million cap hit, a total bargain for a player who has scored 132 goals in 363 games the last five years, which on an 82-game average is 30 goals per season.
No doubt the recent Brendan Gallagher extension would have been of interest to both the Devils and to Palmieri.
If for whatever reason the Devils and Palmieri can’t find common ground on an extension, it obviously opens the door to a potential trade. But perhaps not as quickly as you think. It may be that Fitzgerald in that scenario sees more value in waiting until next season’s trade deadline to move him instead of trying to create a market this off-season.
Having said that, I do think the priority right now is to try and sign him if possible.

That is exactly how I would play it. No reason to sign an extension now. Lets see how the season starts (whenever that is!). UFA went how the Devils would have liked it with Hall, Dadonov and likely Hoffman getting short term deals. Time is on the Devils side IMO.

 

[ChicksDigTheTrap]

I'd look to split the difference on the Anderson and Gallagher deals and lock up Palms at $6M AAV. Anything less than that would be gravy.

I doubt the AAV will be the issue - it will be the term

 

[MartyOwns]

6 years, $40M for palms and call it a day. a 30 goal scorer is worth that easily, never mind the intangibles he brings

 

[Forge]

I'll go three years on Palms. Otherwise I'm happy to trade him. I could go 4 in the right situation...if only because I Think 3 years is maybe unrealistic. But if he gets that 4th year, he gets no trade protection in that last season

 

[SpeakingOfTheDevils]

I'll go three years on Palms. Otherwise I'm happy to trade him. I could go 4 in the right situation...if only because I Think 3 years is maybe unrealistic. But if he gets that 4th year, he gets no trade protection in that last season

Palmieri would be insulted by a 3-year offer, and rightfully so. I think we're looking at five years at minimum.

 

[beekay414]

Palmieri would be insulted by a 3-year offer, and rightfully so. I think we're looking at five years at minimum.

Then don't let the door hit him on the way out

 

[SteveCangialosi123]

5 years would be the highest I’d go. Palmieri is over a year older than Gallagher and for me, not as good. Give him $6 x 5 and call it a day.

 

[beekay414]

You offer him 4x7 and if he turns it down, you trade him. There is no reason to go 5 years.

 

[SteveCangialosi123]

You offer him 4x7 and if he turns it down, you trade him. There is no reason to go 5 years.

The reason to go 5 years is to keep a good player on your hockey team. Pretty simple, really.

 

[Guttersniped]

The reason to go 5 years is to keep a good player on your hockey team. Pretty simple, really.

Yeah, and hopefully it’s a team friendly deal and reflects the downturned market but they aren’t going to play hardball with him and really squeeze him. He’ll get some form of modified NTC all the way through and I just don’t see it being less than 5 years.

 

[beekay414]

The reason to go 5 years is to keep a good player on your hockey team. Pretty simple, really.

Negative. His game is going to fall off a cliff, flat out. He's already a marginal skater. 4x7 is more than fair. If 5 years is a sticking point, he can get it from someone else and be their problem.

 

[SteveCangialosi123]

Negative. His game is going to fall off a cliff, flat out. He's already a marginal skater. 4x7 is more than fair. If 5 years is a sticking point, he can get it from someone else and be their problem.

There isn’t much reason to expect his game to fall off a cliff, that is just speculation. He’s a decent skater and doesn’t really rely on his athleticism that much anyway. I expect him to age well. But time comes for everyone which is why I’d be unhappy with a 6 year deal. 5 I could live with. I’d expect probably 1 bad year which I don’t really care about in 2020.

 

[beekay414]

There isn’t much reason to expect his game to fall off a cliff, that is just speculation. He’s a decent skater and doesn’t really rely on his athleticism that much anyway. I expect him to age well. But time comes for everyone which is why I’d be unhappy with a 6 year deal. 5 I could live with. I’d expect probably 1 bad year which I don’t really care about in 2020.

Meh, I've just learned enough from giving guys in that age bracket that aren't great athletes long term contracts. I mean, have we not learned from the James Neal, Loui Eriksson and Milan Lucic's of the world? I get it being sentimental with Palms but at some point you've got to realize that it's time to move on. I'm fine with 4 years. I am not fine with 5 at that AAV or even at 6. Yes, I'm a realist and know that it's unreasonable to expect him to take 5 years at a lower AAV, thus it's out of the question. And that is why I'm on the "if he wants 5+ years, he can get it from someone else" bandwagon. If he's here, he's here, there's nothing I can do about it but I just find it completely unwise to give someone high AAV into their mid-30s, especially when they aren't elite players or elite athletes. If he's already a marginal skater who doesn't rely on his athleticism at 29, what the hell is he going to be at 33/34 other than a boat anchor who chips in on the power play ala Neal?

 

[McDuffz88]

Personally I would rather just throw all that money on Gusev. Palms is a good player but when he's not scoring goals he dissappears. Gusev has been the catalyst for every line he has been on so far. Every line he has been on exploded. We haven't even tried him at his natural spot at lw nor have we given him a chance next to Nico. If Palms is willing to sign a short term team friendly deal then sure but otherwise cut him lose. Especially now that we drafted holtz which will take Palms spot in a year.

 

[beekay414]

Alas we've already hashed this out a hundred times so I'm not going to ask anyone to do it again. I get both arguments. I just stand on one side of it.

 

[New Jersey Devils]

It is absolutely reasonable to expect Palms to continue scoring 20-30 goals for the next 5-6 years. Nico/Jack will be entering their prime years during that time. How quickly we forget Palms put up 30 with center depth of Henrique, Zajac, Josefson, and Kalinin.

 

[beekay414]

It is absolutely reasonable to expect Palms to continue scoring 20-30 goals for the next 5-6 years. Nico/Jack will be entering their prime years during that time. How quickly we forget Palms put up 30 with center depth of Henrique, Zajac, Josefson, and Kalinin.

Our next best shooter is Holtz who isn't even on the team yet. You know what's

lol what he did at 25 has no bearing on what he'll do in his mid-30s. C'mon.

 

[MartyOwns]

people seem to forget that just a couple of years ago, palms was briefly scoring at a 200 goals/season rate. we can’t afford to lose that kind of productivity

 

[beekay414]

EDIT - NVM delete

 

[SteveCangialosi123]

Nico and Jack probably combine for 75 points in a full season without Palmieri and no other significant acquisitions. We just don’t have shooters and can’t afford to lose one haggling over 1 year on a contract.

 

[Forge]

Palmieri would be insulted by a 3-year offer, and rightfully so. I think we're looking at five years at minimum.

Then he can look elsewhere. I'm okay with that. He can be insulted all he wants.

 

[beekay414]

Nico and Jack probably combine for 75 points in a full season without Palmieri and no other significant acquisitions. We just don’t have shooters and can’t afford to lose one haggling over 1 year on a contract.

You can't look at it solely based on what we have NOW though. That's how you get trapped. Ask yourself, is that one year of Palmieri worth potentially losing someone that fits the timeline better? We CAN afford to move on because we've put ourselves in that position by drafting Holtz and Mercer. Two top 6 RWs that'll both contribute at a high level in the NHL.

There are multiple ways to look at it but the "what we have now" part isn't really one of them. What we have now has no bearing on what we will have in the future.

 

[New Jersey Devils]

I mean really where do people expect to replace Palms' production if we trade him or let him walk? Trusting our next best (unproven) shooters in Holtz or Foote to contribute in the next few years just doesn't make sense. Proven 20-30 goal production doesn't just grow on trees.

We're acting like a team with ~$11M (pending our RFAs) in cap space with another $14.7 more coming off the books in the next 2 years in Zajac and Subban is going to cripple us.

 

[beekay414]

I mean really where do people expect to replace Palms' production if we trade him or let him walk? Trusting our next best (unproven) shooters in Holtz or Foote to contribute in the next few years just doesn't make sense. Proven 20-30 goal production doesn't just grow on trees.

We're acting like a team with ~$11M (pending our RFAs) in cap space with another $14.7 more coming off the books in the next 2 years in Zajac and Subban is going to cripple us.

Nobody is acting like that considering we've all said we'd go 4 years so those contracts have no bearing on what we're discussing. It's the next contracts of the youth that mean more. Is keeping Palmieri worth losing Bratt? Cuz that's a position we could find ourselves in down the line. Acting like it's unreasonable to move on from Palmieri is asinine. But, hey, if you can't expect your top picks to produce, then we might as well just sign anyone that scores goals and contributes in the PPGZ department.