Devils 2020-21 team discussion (news, notes and speculation) - part VIII

[Triumph]

I think you and others are judging him unfairly. This has to be judging him purely against his draft year. The results haven't been bad..Not great, not as expected but not terrible either. If you come to grips with he's going to be a 3rd line center it all makes sense. There has been steady improvement and the results are probably exactly what should be expected for his usage as 3/4 C.

2020 - 86th in the league in PPG among centers - 22 years old
2019 - 109th PPG among centers - 21 years old
2018 - 127th PPG among centers - 20 years old

He is a bad 3rd line center. Last season he got lucky and put some assists on the board. In a season where he doesn't get lucky, he won't do that. He has to improve by a lot to be a decent player 5 on 5.

 

[JimEIV]

He is a bad 3rd line center. Last season he got lucky and put some assists on the board. In a season where he doesn't get lucky, he won't do that. He has to improve by a lot to be a decent player 5 on 5.

20 ES Points is not great but it is not terrible either

Just looking at some centers above and below him

David Krejci had 29 ESP (61 games) and Peter Stastny had 27 (71 games ) and Ryan Johansen had 26 in 68 games, Nico had 24 in 58, Zajac had 21 in 69

Derek Stepan had 20 in 70 games, Joe Pavelski had 19 in 67, Alex Galchenyuk had 17 in 59 games, Tyson Jost had 18 in 67, Valtteri Filppula had 15 in 70


You're gonna tell me Zacha sucks 5v5 with 20 ESP in 65?

12 of his 32 points came on special teams 8 PP and 4 SH - That is not a bad thing.

Edit: I called Paul Stastny Peter

 

[FooteBahl]

20 ES Points is not great but it is not terrible either

Just looking at some centers above and below him

David Krejci had 29 ESP (61 games) and Peter Stastny had 27 (71 games ) and Ryan Johansen had 26 in 68 games, Nico had 24 in 58, Zajac had 21 in 69

Derek Stepan had 20 in 70 games, Joe Pavelski had 19 in 67, Alex Galchenyuk had 17 in 59 games, Tyson Jost had 18 in 67, Valtteri Filppula had 15 in 70


You're gonna tell me Zacha sucks 5v5 with 20 ESP in 65?

12 of his 32 points came on special teams 8 PP and 4 SH - That is not a bad thing.

Edit: I called Paul Stastny Peter

Better than robbing Peter to pay Paul IMO

 

[Triumph]

20 ES Points is not great but it is not terrible either

Just looking at some centers above and below him

David Krejci had 29 ESP (61 games) and Peter Stastny had 27 (71 games ) and Ryan Johansen had 26 in 68 games, Nico had 24 in 58, Zajac had 21 in 69

Derek Stepan had 20 in 70 games, Joe Pavelski had 19 in 67, Alex Galchenyuk had 17 in 59 games, Tyson Jost had 18 in 67, Valtteri Filppula had 15 in 70


You're gonna tell me Zacha sucks 5v5 with 20 ESP in 65?

12 of his 32 points came on special teams 8 PP and 4 SH - That is not a bad thing.

Edit: I called Paul Stastny Peter

I acknowledged that Zacha put up a lot of assists last season. What I am saying is that that is not likely to continue at that rate. He's likely to be knocked off PP1 next season.

If they keep him with Bratt and Gusev he can produce at that rate, maybe. And that's all he does at ES is put up a decent number of points - he's poor defensively and doesn't contribute a lot to offense either.

 

[JK3]

Pretty much what @Triumph said.

"While again, Zacha’s point totals were good this past season, they seem inflated by his linesmates, as the rest of his rankings all rank near the bottom for the team’s forwards. Additionally, the most common names under him were either players lambasted by the fan base (John Hayden, Miles Wood) or players who weren’t really put in roles to succeed (Jesper Boqvist) due to their position on the depth chart.

More worrisome is that Travis Zajac, who just completed his age 34 season, consistently ranked above Zacha, if only by a bit, in most of the categories. That puts Zacha at the level of an older forward whose offensive skills have clearly begun to decline, but without the defensive responsibilities that Zajac shoulders. Consistently being deployed against the top opposing players has an impact on Travis’ numbers; Pavel doesn’t have that excuse. His mostly low rankings should be worrisome sign for his ability to positively affect the run of play going forward."

Should the Devils Keep Pavel Zacha?

 

[Cheddabombs]

how dare all of you

 

[Billdo]

Zacha is going to shove a lot of these posts right up your hoops next season. 20 goal lock.

 

[Ripshot 43]

how dare all of you

 

[tailfins]

Drafting a third line center with a No. 7th overall pick in one of the most historically strong drafts at a time when there is no viable top center prospect in the pool...yup, that's forgivable.

Do you want Zacha to be your butler or something? There's no one left to hold accountable.

 

[SteveCangialosi123]

Zacha is going to shove a lot of these posts right up your hoops next season. 20 goal lock.

Maybe if he shoots 25%

 

[Hischier and Hughes]

I think some underestimate just how much influence Ruff will have on the offensive side of things

It will be night and day

 

[tailfins]

Maybe if he shoots 25%

 

[Oneiro]

Do you want Zacha to be your butler or something? There's no one left to hold accountable.

Nah, I genuinely want him to succeed, but it's also amusing seeing the desperation in trying to paint him in a good light. It's in jest when I bring that past stuff up (mostly when our two No. 1 centers are being roasted as potential "misses" while still on their ELCs). Obviously we're here now, Zacha's our guy and we should make the best of him, whether that's flip him or get him in the right context to be better. I also see the tools that we all do and understand the allure of drafting this kind of player.

 

[JimEIV]

I acknowledged that Zacha put up a lot of assists last season. What I am saying is that that is not likely to continue at that rate. He's likely to be knocked off PP1 next season.

If they keep him with Bratt and Gusev he can produce at that rate, maybe. And that's all he does at ES is put up a decent number of points - he's poor defensively and doesn't contribute a lot to offense either.

2 years ago he had almost identical assist totals playing with lessor players....I don't think this years assist totals were an anomaly at all. The PP assist were barely different 3 two years ago and 5 this year...I don't think you can count any short-handed points so that was definitely a boost But I am hardly seeing a difference.

2017-18 he had 14 ES assist - 17 total - wasn't this largely with Bennett, Wood and DSP?
2019-20 he had 17 ES assist - 24 total - The difference was special teams

2018 he has 3 PP assist
2020 he had 5 PP assist

2018 0 SH assist
2020 2 SH assist

He was #2 ES assist on the team this year with 17
He was #6 on the team in 2018 with 14 even strength assist

 

[MartyOwns]

zacha will be easily replaced by any number of upcoming prospects. in hindsight, that was a worse draft pick than mcleod

 

[Cheddabombs]

View attachment 374525

 

[OmNomNom]

if larsson could change completely after a coaching change, so can zacha

 

[Bleedred]

I’m kind of annoyed with Zacha at this point too. That was supposed to be a pretty big pick for us after the dreadful final Lou year with all the old bums. Outside of Larsson (who was flipped for a much better player exactly 5 years after he was drafted) that was our highest pick in almost 25 years at that point and it was a pretty meh pick.

He’s not a bad player, but was just hoping to get something better since he was our first pick in the rebuild era. Getting a really quality player in that draft in the first round at 6th overall could have really had us in a better position right now.

 

[Guttersniped]

A major problem with Zacha as a point producer is he doesn’t shoot the puck nearly enough 5v5. Last season 5v5, Zacha had 3 goals in 65 games while shooting 5.26%. That’s brutal and I think we can agree it shows he did not shoot the puck enough. He had a more respectable 7 goals the season before 5v5 only because he shot 11.11% which is, so far, abnormally high for him.

Zacha, like Zajac in season’s other than last year, has been more productive than people seem to realize on the PP. And after Hughes was put on Nico’s wing he was on what was our 2nd scoring line with our best wingers not named Kyle Palmieri so he was understandably more productive. That’s how scoring lines work.

Zacha’s other flaw is his 5v5 defense, which statistically speaking, last season was very bad. He did play with forwards who, statistically speaking, had the same problem, starting with Wood, who was cosmically bad defensively, as well as Hughes, Simmonds and Gusev.

The thing is Zacha and Wood’s defense, statistically speaking, was much better in 2018-19 (particularly Wood’s). Not good mind you, but not nearly as bad and before you blame the step back just on the dumpster fire season, Bratt’s defensive game made huge strides last season. While I don’t see Zacha turning into Zajac or Couturier rather than debate his 5v5 defense I will hope against hope that it might become more of a focus and improve this season.

Is Zacha a future 3C on a good team? No? He needs to start shooting the puck a lot more 5v5 and show signs of being at least even an average checking center defensively before I change my mind.

The argument for Zacha next season is his competition. Short term, McLeod may not be able to score enough goals to stay in the NHL as a 4th line center. Zajac’s had a very off year production wise, he’s had them before and bounced back but his age makes that somewhat doubtful. Travis might just function better as a pure shutdown guy at this point since he doesn’t have Coleman.

The argument against is Hughes’ line will be defensively suspect so it will get pretty sticky to have Zacha’s line be shaky defensively too. I don’t particularly have my heart set on lines other then Nico and Jack at center. Ruff can give Zacha a whirl at center, why not. Zacha’s got two more years on his deal and then he’s a RFA with arbitration rights one year from UFA freedom, so he’s not actually chained to this team forever.

 

[glenwo2]

you are in trouble. pack your bags for rainy seattle.

At least I won't be Sleepless there.

 

[Triumph]

2 years ago he had almost identical assist totals playing with lessor players....I don't think this years assist totals were an anomaly at all. The PP assist were barely different 3 two years ago and 5 this year...I don't think you can count any short-handed points so that was definitely a boost But I am hardly seeing a difference.

2017-18 he had 14 ES assist - 17 total - wasn't this largely with Bennett, Wood and DSP?
2019-20 he had 17 ES assist - 24 total - The difference was special teams

Of course it wasn't with Bennett, Wood, and DSP - neither Bennett nor DSP played for the Devils in 2017-18. Zacha played 100 or more minutes with these players in 2017-18: Wood, Palmieri, Noesen, Bratt, Stafford, Hall. He got 50+ minutes with most of the other wings on the team, including Grabner and Maroon.

Zacha and Wood were an excellent combination together, as they were basically break-even which is the best Zacha's been in his career. Since then the two of them have been abysmal together. I don't know what happened - I don't think it's just the team.

2018 he has 3 PP assist
2020 he had 5 PP assist

2018 0 SH assist
2020 2 SH assist

He was #2 ES assist on the team this year with 17
He was #6 on the team in 2018 with 14 even strength assist

It's fun to count numbers and sometimes the numbers are more than other numbers. The problem is that I'm not really seeing Zacha as this adept puck carrier or playmaker. He can do these things, but he's not above-average at them. He's average. Some seasons the numbers will be down, like 2018-19. Some seasons the numbers will be up, like 2019-20.

He's just a blah player. He can kill penalties well. That's it. The rest of his game is average to below-average. There needs to be a lot of improvement in other areas.

 

[MadDevil]

Zacha has played 266 games in the NHL. At some point he just is what he is, which at this point is an okay bottom 6 forward that can kill penalties. I'm not expecting anything more from him anymore.

 

[TheUnseenHand]

Hooray, more Zacha debates!.....

Here's the thing. A team needs a first line center, a second line center, but it also needs a third line center. Zacha is a big kid with some raw skills that, even if he doesn't tap into, makes him a very good option in that third line role. He's also young, on a cheap contract, and will continue to get cheap contracts. He's really a good fit for the bottom 6. I feel like most of the argument about wanting to get rid of him is that he never developed into a top 6 player. That's fine. You need bottom 6 players that can hack it in the league as well.

 

[Emperoreddy]

Yeah but ideally you want a 3rd line center that is better defensively then he is and can score a bit more too.

 

[Zippy316]

Zacha sucks for where he was drafted compared to what he’s done to date.

But luckily we have Hischier - Hughes ahead of him. We have time to let him develop into whatever we want him to. There’s still tons of skill there that we see flashes of and there’s stints where he shows he can be a solid defensive forward.

Plus on his current deal, even what he’s bringing to the table right now is worth it. I personally still think there’s some time (and hope) for him to turn into a top nine utility forward like Zubrus was.