Devils 2017-18 team discussion (player news and notes) - Offseason part IX

[My3Sons]

Would love to see this lineup.
Hall Zajac Speers/Quenneville
Johansson Hischier Palmieri
Zacha Mcleod Henrique
Wood Boyle Blandisi
Each line has a speed burner that can gain entry with ease 1.Hall 2.Hischier 3. Mcleod 4.Wood
Each line has a mix of veterans and young players. I think Speers and Quenneville can duke it out as either one can be sent to the AHL at anytime. I think Mcleod is ready and Zacha would compliment him very well at left wing.
This is a formidable deep looking squad.

I think the lines start fairly unexciting with only Zacha vying for a top six role initially. If Nico develops over the course of the year maybe he ends the year getting some regular top six minutes at which point the trade Henrique discussion can become serious. I'd like to think McLeod shows enough to stick in a top 9 role all season but my guess is he has a season something like Zacha last year. Mixed inconsistent results but an enouraging run down the stretch with a promise of better things to come the next season. The lines with the young players getting meaningful roles and playing together are more realistic to me at the end of next season.

 

[JimEIV]

By this same logic Beau Bennett should still be a Devil.

He got his favor and countless opportunity. No way that kid should've been getting the time he was over say a Blandisi or Quenneville, especially after the New Year, no matter what a shot matrix says.

 

[Triumph]

He got his favor and countless opportunity. No way that kid should've been getting the time he was over say a Blandisi or Quenneville, especially after the New Year, no matter what a shot matrix says.

Bennett outproduced both of them in 5v5 P/60 but hey, sure. Just pull the team deeper into the miasm by giving guys like Wood and Coleman more time.

 

[JimEIV]

Bennett outproduced both of them in 5v5 P/60 but hey, sure. Just pull the team deeper into the miasm by giving guys like Wood and Coleman more time.

Bennett had zero upside or room for growth. He's had nearly 200 games to prove himself, he'll be 26 in November and has 64 points. Wood Coleman, Blandisi and Quenneville combined haven't had the opportunity Bennett has had nor have they had that opportunity with a championship caliber team. Those players at least deserve an opportunity to fail like Bennett has.

Bennett is still getting opportunities because of his draft position, which was probably a mistake to begin with.

 

[My3Sons]

Bennett outproduced both of them in 5v5 P/60 but hey, sure. Just pull the team deeper into the miasm by giving guys like Wood and Coleman more time.

Bennett seemed competent to me also. I was puzzled by Shero jettisoning him. To reach this conclusion it likely means the coaches did not advocate for him in team post mortem meetings. He's cheap and could have been signed for one year. Given Shero's comments about competing and being hard to play against it may simply have been that Bennett is just obviously and painfully soft. Given his injury history it wouldn't surprise me if Bennett didn't want to get dirty. I'm still not sure I wouldn't have given him one more year as insurance on right wing. Is Noesen that much better than him?

 

[Triumph]

Bennett had zero upside or room for growth. He's had nearly 200 games to prove himself, he'll be 26 in November and has 64 points. Wood Coleman, Blandisi and Quenneville combined haven't had the opportunity Bennett has had nor have they had that opportunity with a championship caliber team. Those players at least deserve an opportunity to fail like Bennett has.

Everyone you've described was either a 1st year pro or a 2nd year pro last year. Beau Bennett turned pro in 2012 and was therefore a 5th year pro last year. So if your goal here was to compare two things that don't deserve comparison, mission accomplished.

Bennett is still getting opportunities because of his draft position, which was probably a mistake to begin with.

I'm glad you have an in with the Blues front office. Any player who has produced like Bennett has produced should manage to stay in a 31 team NHL.

 

[JimEIV]

Everyone you've described was either a 1st year pro or a 2nd year pro last year. Beau Bennett turned pro in 2012 and was therefore a 5th year pro last year. So if your goal here was to compare two things that don't deserve comparison, mission accomplished.

My mission was to prove Bennett is a scrub in the truest sense. And the fact that he got 65 games on a rebuiling team when Quenneville and Blandisi got a combined 39 games is a travesty.

 

[Bleedred]

Coleman sucks at the NHL level.

He's a career minor league/European league player.

 

[Triumph]

My mission was to prove Bennett is a scrub in the truest sense. And the fact that he got 65 games on a rebuiling team when Quenneville and Blandisi got a combined 39 games is a travesty.

And his results at ES were way better than both players. Also sometimes playing on a garbage team is not good for a young player, especially a guy 2 years away from waiver eligibility like Quenneville for whom there's no rush. There is plenty of time for him to play in the NHL.

 

[JimEIV]

And his results at ES were way better than both players. Also sometimes playing on a garbage team is not good for a young player, especially a guy 2 years away from waiver eligibility like Quenneville for whom there's no rush. There is plenty of time for him to play in the NHL.

Are you really in good faith comparing Quenneville's 12 games or Blandisi"s 27 to Bennett's 65 in terms of results?

 

[Billdo]

I don't know, I would've rather kept Bennett but I also think Blandisi and JQ deserve a legit shot. I don't however think Bennett necessarily prevented that though so I'm hesitant to think either, except for JQ, can possibly play RW which is the spot we would need. I really do think Blandisi deserves a shot and I think Hynes showed a bit of faith in him over the last few weeks despite half the team mailing it in.

 

[Triumph]

Are you really in good faith comparing Quenneville's 12 games or Blandisi"s 27 to Bennett's 65 in terms of results?

Yes. I'm even doing it on your terms too, since you only talk up Corsi when it suits your argument. Seeing 12 games of Quenneville last season, I didn't think to myself, 'Wow, why'd they leave this guy in the minors? This guy's really good!' Quenneville was okay but there's things he's got to work on. Blandisi's gotten a bit unlucky at the NHL level but last season was kind of blah for him too. And we haven't talked about Coleman or Pietila or Wood or the other associated players who played for the Devils last year late in the season.

I don't know, I would've rather kept Bennett but I also think Blandisi and JQ deserve a legit shot. I don't however think Bennett necessarily prevented that though so I'm hesitant to think either, except for JQ, can possibly play RW which is the spot we would need. I really do think Blandisi deserves a shot and I think Hynes showed a bit of faith in him over the last few weeks despite half the team mailing it in.

This isn't the focus of the discussion we're having - Aethon goalpost shifted after I told him that Strait won't be used much on the NHL team next year into talking about how the Devils used Bennett too much last season. Whether or not he should be on this year's team wasn't up for debate here. For the record, I think the Devils should've kept him, but I can see why they talked themselves into not doing so.

 

[Emperoreddy]

I don't know, I would've rather kept Bennett but I also think Blandisi and JQ deserve a legit shot. I don't however think Bennett necessarily prevented that though so I'm hesitant to think either, except for JQ, can possibly play RW which is the spot we would need. I really do think Blandisi deserves a shot and I think Hynes showed a bit of faith in him over the last few weeks despite half the team mailing it in.

They also want Speers to have a legit shot.

 

[NJDevs26]

That's a fair comment...but the links and history Strait has to this administration are overwhelming...

So they are either doing him a favor or actually giving him a shot. That's not to say that I can't be reading the situation wrong but from World junior to Development team to being drafted, to playing in the AHL and the NHL under Shero and Hynes I just find it really hard to believe that he's not getting a legitimate shot.

History? He played twelve games with the Penguins, and 220 for Wilkes-Barre. They clearly thought of him as an AHL guy then, and wound up getting rid of him.

 

[JimEIV]

Yes. I'm even doing it on your terms too, since you only talk up Corsi when it suits your argument. Seeing 12 games of Quenneville last season, I didn't think to myself, 'Wow, why'd they leave this guy in the minors? This guy's really good!' Quenneville was okay but there's things he's got to work on. Blandisi's gotten a bit unlucky at the NHL level but last season was kind of blah for him too. And we haven't talked about Coleman or Pietila or Wood or the other associated players who played for the Devils last year late in the season.
.

Oh come on now. If you want to call me out for being disingenuous at various times fine(I won't even deny it) but how can you seriously argue Bennett deserved the opportunity he got this season... especially when he was playing LW so often with the other options that were available?

 

[Triumph]

Oh come on now. If you want to call me out for being disingenuous at various times fine(I won't even deny it) but how can you seriously argue Bennett deserved the opportunity he got this season... especially when he was playing LW so often with the other options that were available?

Yes, he did. By any measure he was a fine player at ES - he was fine at P/60, fine with Corsi, fine at GF/GA differential/60. During the season, the Devils got rid of Kalinin, Smith-Pelly got hurt for the year, they traded Parenteau - they picked up Noesen on waivers, but they still needed bodies. They signed a guy out of the AHL who had no business in the NHL just to get a 12th forward for a few games.

Are you honestly saying that Bennett got too many opportunities but then they non-tendered him after the year and didn't re-sign him? He was getting 13/14 minutes a game in the 2nd half when the Devils were an awful team playing awful players lots of minutes.

 

[Devils Dominion]

By this same logic Beau Bennett should still be a Devil.

Yes, BB should have been brought back.

 

[Setec Astronomy]

If BB were really all that special, he would have gotten something better than a one-year league minimum deal. Virtually every team, including the Devils, has an analytics department that almost certainly looked at the same stuff at Cordell posts on his blog. And given his draft position, I'm sure that teams that needed a low cost right winger did some amount of due diligence on him prior to free agency.

 

[Triumph]

If BB were really all that special, he would have gotten something better than a one-year league minimum deal. Virtually every team, including the Devils, has an analytics department that almost certainly looked at the same stuff at Cordell posts on his blog. And given his draft position, I'm sure that teams that needed a low cost right winger did some amount of due diligence on him prior to free agency.

This is an argument from authority. It has no basis. NHL teams get players wrong all the time and Bennett will be one of them. Too bad for him.

 

[Emperoreddy]

This is an argument from authority. It has no basis. NHL teams get players wrong all the time and Bennett will be one of them. Too bad for him.

You are using this wrong. An argument from authority isn't a fallacy if the authority is actually relevant, in this case GMs and professional player evaluation. The league as a whole gets it right on players more often then they don't.

It doesn't make the conclusion true, but it has more validity then your claim that you somehow know better.

 

[Devils731]

You are using this wrong. An argument from authority isn't a fallacy if the authority is actually relevant, in this case GMs and professional player evaluation. The league as a whole gets it right on players more often then they don't.

It doesn't make the conclusion true, but it has more validity then your claim that you somehow know better.

The authority really should be relevant in an appeal to authority, that doesn't change the weakness of the argument.

Saying Bennet isn't good because the league doesn't value him is substituting explaining why Bennet isn't good with an authority. So instead of discussing why Bennett is or isn't good the arguer is attempting to make the discussion moot by saying the league is the ultimate arbiter or authority.

If we think it's valid to appeal to the league authority then we really can't argue any lineup decisions the Devils ever make because the higher authority deemed those lineups correct.

 

[MadDevil]

Yes, BB should have been brought back.

Which I would have been fine with. My statement was more trying to put to rest this "he was a former Pen so he's going to play" argument Jim was making for Strait, when we just dumped a player who Shero drafted and then traded for in Bennett.

 

[Emperoreddy]

The authority really should be relevant in an appeal to authority, that doesn't change the weakness of the argument.

Saying Bennet isn't good because the league doesn't value him is substituting explaining why Bennet isn't good with an authority. So instead of discussing why Bennett is or isn't good the arguer is attempting to make the discussion moot by saying the league is the ultimate arbiter or authority.

If we think it's valid to appeal to the league authority then we really can't argue any lineup decisions the Devils ever make because the higher authority deemed those lineups correct.

Their is still validity to the appeal though. It isn't the end all be all. There most likely is a good reason people passed on him.

It can't be used as the only reason to dismiss him since the league isn't infalliable, but the same can be argued in the reverse. One can't simply say the league gets it wrong sometimes, so their opinion on players is completely invalid and the interpretation of advanced stats by an amateur is the end all be all.

 

[devilsblood]

I would have been fine bringing Bennett back, I liked him as a player and it does look like we have a spot for a vet RW.

But I again point to what looks like an intentional effort by the Devils to cut loose the list of oft injured players.

Camm, JJ, BB, Merril. If you get 60 games out of any of these games that's a major win.

Meanwhile they brought in 2 players who consistently play 75+ games.

 

[captainscott]

Bennett seemed competent to me also. I was puzzled by Shero jettisoning him. To reach this conclusion it likely means the coaches did not advocate for him in team post mortem meetings. He's cheap and could have been signed for one year. Given Shero's comments about competing and being hard to play against it may simply have been that Bennett is just obviously and painfully soft. Given his injury history it wouldn't surprise me if Bennett didn't want to get dirty. I'm still not sure I wouldn't have given him one more year as insurance on right wing. Is Noesen that much better than him?

Bennett was competent, he met expectations in my opinion ... he was a player that could play in NHL on a team that had nothing.. I think the organization feels they have better options at forward this year. we added an NHL caliber line to the team this off season thats a lot of movement for any team. adding 3 sure fire NHL forwards and likely 2 guys in top six is a big change. Bennett became expendable.

add in the fact that we have about 4-6 guys( most of which have already proven to be capable NHL forwards) trying out for 3 spots.. devils as previously stated seem to be in solid territory at the forward position.

defensively..... they will be better.. i don' think good unless a major piece is added but better for the simple reason that santinit and severson are a year older... i am hoping they made a good deal for mueller too i am confident that is going to be a trade that works out really well for NJ