Post-Game Talk: Devil IV

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I certainly get the overreaction because that was one of the worst hockey games I've ever seen in my life but they definitely are not done. They came back from worse last playoffs with an inferior team. Devils have the pressure on them now to win Game 5. it definitely sucks that we'll probably have to play 7 games again to win the series when we could've put them away early though.
 
I'm not saying their isn't a mental aspect to it. The momentum of the series flipped with game 3 and we didn't have the most energetic game yesterday. I'm very sure they'll be ready for game 5, mentally.

Beyond that, the conversation is just tiring. I wanna talk about hockey - roster building and X's and O's. That's what a forum like this exists for. I can get rudimentary "the other team doesn't exist, the results hinge on my team trying hard enough" takes on boomer ass Facebook, let alone Twitter.

It's pointless too. Ok, you're right. The team didn't try hard enough. Now what? Trade all of them? Get new players who may or may not do something you can't measure? It's pointless as a roster building approach and pointless as a discussion.

I think there's a fundamental misunderstanding of the level of competition we're at. Brian Scalabrine said it best: "I'm closer to LeBron than you are to me." Guys that aren't interested don't make it here. "Just get there and do the thing!" when the highest level professionals in the world are trying to stop you, and you're doing nothing fundamentally to disrupt them, is not how pro sports works.
great... but you're in a post-game thread, where people discuss in game performance of the currently constructed team. I'm not even arguing that the rangers are that fast, and that it doesn't have an impact... you keep framing this "they don't care' argument as boorish and generic hockey banter... but when a team isn't executing on any level, for any lenght of time, after theyv'e shown that they can, it leads people to make assumptions on... EFFORT.
 
See, I'm very interested in that kind of stuff, but I don't think you could ever measure "Player A wanted to win more than Player B."

I don't even think that could be legitimately coded for measurement.

Ok, let's look at driving the net. What if Player B felt that passing or shooting from the perimeter was a better play? If he's 5'10" and has a great wrist shot, it probably is the better play for the attributes he possesses.

I think it's also far too disingenuous from the crowd it comes from to properly code, at least to their satisfaction.

People: "GET TO THE FRONT OF THE NET YOU WUSS!!!!"

Kreider: *Never leaves the front of the net*

Those same people: "Big deal, all you do is tip pucks."

I think perhaps a legitimate measurement and discussion could be had but 99% of it on here is just lashing out.
He never leaves on the PP, what about the rest of the time dude? That’s why we live and die by the PP because he and others do nothing 5 on 5 C’mon lol it’s the only time they can set up and even that’s not always a given

I’m not expecting him to maul people every shift I’m expecting him to play to his physical abilities like everyone else who isn’t doing so

Expecting a big guy with speed to do something while he’s not standing still most of the time is asking a lot?
 
@Machinehead nailed this, actually. They looked at a comparatively small sample set where Lafreniere abused younger, inferior players in the Q.

IMO this is vastly oversimplified. He was the second leading scorer on a Gold winning Canada WJC team, 2.0 points / game in his draft year. You can say small sample size, but that doesn’t happen often. And he sure didn’t look slow at all there.

Lafreniere may have been a flawed prospect, but something is happening or not happening when these kids get to the NYR. Track record speaks for itself. I truly honestly do not know how anyone can reasonably deny this.
 
everyone is going to have to come to terms with the fact that we ended up with two f***ing lemons at 1st and 2nd OA and just be pleasantly surprised if they actually turn into anything resembling stars.

imagine how good this team would be if they were anywhere near what they were supposed to be. it's depressing as hell.
 
I certainly get the overreaction because that was one of the worst hockey games I've ever seen in my life but they definitely are not done. They came back from worse last playoffs with an inferior team. Devils have the pressure on them now to win Game 5. it definitely sucks that we'll probably have to play 7 games again to win the series when we could've put them away early though.

They also had a different mindset than this team does this year. At least last year when they lost they played with heart. These past two losses make them look like they dont want to be there. We looked like an AHL franchise the past two games. We are inferior to the team last year, idc if you say Tank and Kane are here. Kane sucks ass and Tank isnt used properly. Devils have no pressure on them. They came back tied the series and are going to beat us in 6. Rangers have played pathetic and im embarrassed to call myself a rangers fan today
 
2 of them standing still with an extra man, he does nothing to set up the power play or really any plays honestly and he doesn’t use his size and strength to hit or forecheck, he barely draws penalties too because he’s hardly engaged as fully as he could be most of the time and that goes for most of the team and that’s what people mean about will and determination etc etc

Not fighting with you, I understand the merits of your viewpoints but I think the truth is we’re all right to certain extents
Well, I'm fighting with you and I'm gonna win.

I don't think there's a guy in the NHL that's worked harder to stay here or made more of the attributes he has than Chris Kreider.

If you want him to destroy people, I guess you're entitled to that opinion, but let's not lie and use the word "forecheck." We have a ten year sample of Kreider being a 52% possession player with 58% goal share. Six players have played as many mintues have a better goal share. Three of them played for Boston. Crosby, MacKinnon, and McDavid are not among them. He's one of the best forecheckers in the league. He's one of the most effective 5v5 forwards in the league. Always has been, still is.

And if you look at this list, in terms of pure talent, Chris Kreider sticks out like a f***ing redhead. It's all hard work and application. He doesn't have the talent that similarly effective players do.

He beats guys to pucks without having to go out of position to hit. If he's smart enough to realize that, that's a good thing.

It's true he doesn't draw penalties at a high rate but most of the elite penalty drawers in the league are small. It's hard to notice infractions when nobody can knock you over.

I'm always going to win when it comes to Chris Kreider because I have Chris Kreider on my side. He's one of the best players to wear a Rangers uniform and I legitimately feel bad that you're not enjoying it as much as I do.

Gonna be a sad day when the old goober hangs it up.
 
They also had a different mindset than this team does this year. At least last year when they lost they played with heart. These past two losses make them look like they dont want to be there. We looked like an AHL franchise the past two games. We are inferior to the team last year, idc if you say Tank and Kane are here. Kane sucks ass and Tank isnt used properly. Devils have no pressure on them. They came back tied the series and are going to beat us in 6. Rangers have played pathetic and im embarrassed to call myself a rangers fan today

that mindset didn't really come out until game 5 of the first round though. remember how lifeless they were in 3 and 4? it was worse than this is against a worse team.

also, I was one of the biggest detractors of the Kane trade when it happened but the guy has 6 points in 4 games, he is faaaaaaar from the problem right now.
 
I'm just a rando that logs in 1-2 times a year but this game got me:

Ever since the 2nd period of game 3 the Rangers/Devils have been playing extremely boring 50/50 hockey. Defensively responsible, lots of safe, boring shots for each goalie. The difference I see is that the Rangers are abysmal at taking mid-high danger shots in the face of this 50/50 hockey. I don't exactly fault Shesterkin here but he's had an overall easy series. Outside of the Hughes breakaway, hes getting beaten by clean or screened top corner wristers from mid range. And thats ok but it's 50/50.

Last nights game was so boring I turned it off before the 3rd because even if the Rangers won it would be a boring game. Perhaps my mind just wipes such things but this game up to that point was the most boring playoff game I can ever remember. I don't even know if the Devils goalie has faced a single A+ shot attempt since he started. He has had it easy too. Lots of basic "drop in butterfly shots" that end up killing the play. The shots that beat him was 50/50 hockey. Just like Shesterkin.

The last 2 games have given me the feeling of watching higher level mens league while waiting to play a game myself. It's like watching 2 Carolina Hurricanes against eachother with less volume fluff shots.

I don't really think it's over, at all......But I don't think I am going to watch game 5 because I feel it's going to be another 50/50 game where watching the box score/highlights will be just as exciting as watching it live. This is supposed to be playoff hockey and I am struggling to pay attention to a sport that I once remember being the most exciting on the planet.
 
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that mindset didn't really come out until game 5 of the first round though. remember how lifeless they were in 3 and 4? it was worse than this is against a worse team.

also, I was one of the biggest detractors of the Kane trade when it happened but the guy has 6 points in 4 games, he is faaaaaaar from the problem right now.

That mindset is lost on this team. Trouba needs another helmet toss. This series is already over. They have no life, no heart, no determination, no will, no effort. I want a refund for my money last night. I almost left in the 1st period. Lifeless pathetic hockey.

Kane is trash, hes showed up for 1 game. which we as a team played great. Kane floats, plays no defense, isnt physical, and is adding NOTHING to this franchise but more of the panarin turnovers and laziness.

This team is done.

I really hope Drury really changes this team up. Panarin gone, Gallant gone, Kane go away, Tank resign, bring the right type of players.
 
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Well, I'm fighting with you and I'm gonna win.

I don't think there's a guy in the NHL that's worked harder to stay here or made more of the attributes he has than Chris Kreider.

If you want him to destroy people, I guess you're entitled to that opinion, but let's not lie and use the word "forecheck." We have a ten year sample of Kreider being a 52% possession player with 58% goal share. Six players have played as many mintues have a better goal share. Three of them played for Boston. Crosby, MacKinnon, and McDavid are not among them. He's one of the best forecheckers in the league. He's one of the most effective 5v5 forwards in the league. Always has been, still is.

And if you look at this list, in terms of pure talent, Chris Kreider sticks out like a f***ing redhead. It's all hard work and application. He doesn't have the talent that similarly effective players do.

He beats guys to pucks without having to go out of position to hit. If he's smart enough to realize that, that's a good thing.

It's true he doesn't draw penalties at a high rate but most of the elite penalty drawers in the league are small. It's hard to notice infractions when nobody can knock you over.

I'm always going to win when it comes to Chris Kreider because I have Chris Kreider on my side. He's one of the best players to wear a Rangers uniform and I legitimately feel bad that you're not enjoying it as much as I do.

Gonna be a sad day when the old goober hangs it up.
Haha bring it on bud

I like the guy but he’s a floater most of the time, it’s not even debatable, you can throw whatever %’s you want at me I’m not playing that game when I watch literally every game and see how games play out

He has his moments and last year it all clicked for him and I enjoyed it but he still has the “have you seen Chris” part to his game as well

If he beats a guy to a puck that’s great but when he doesn’t or when there’s a forward coming up ice how about once in while using that big body and actually finishing a check?

The fact he draws so few penalties is kind of a testament to how floaty he can be, can’t draw penalties working hard with that size and strength? Something isn’t right there

It’s like all our top guys have one specific thing they do and rest their laurels on it

PS you’re still ok in my book even if I’ve disappointed you lmao
 
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I still have confidence. Shesterkin has been great. Their savior has 3 goals: a penalty shot, an absolute snipe and a cherry picked breakaway. We need to find goals and quickly. Gotta make life miserable for Schmid.

PS, why was there no call when the guy slid right into Shesty?
 
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For me, it is a combination of playing our game with less attention to detail and the Devils being more defensively responsible and managing the puck better. We're Tampa Baying the Devils the way TB neutralized our speed after Game 2 ECF. The way we played Games 1 and 2 made them have to slow things down and play a defensive minded game. The difference is that Tampa played in the dirty areas to win and we do not do that with the Devils. The Devils, a speed and transition team that's miles faster than us individually and collectively, did not like playing the style of Game 3 and 4 but had to in order to get back into the series. Now, we'll see if they want to play looser in front of their crowd. I don't think it's a good idea to get into a track meet with them. I think our D can activate from time to time to get more offense and establish the ozone. Generally, we're managing the puck pretty well but very carefully, in order to prevent the Devils' transition. To our detriment, we favor going rinkwide on the outlet pass to the weak side and when the lanes are clogged, our forward -- who's usually facing toward our own end -- can't do anything but tip it away and out of danger.
Agreed. I didn't mean to make it out as if the Devils did ZERO, obviously they did enough to win. IMO, though, it would NOT have been enough to win if we played the right way, if we actually showed up and committed.
 
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Again, in these 4 games, have you seen the Devils outright dominate the Rangers?

Game 3 was 50/50, and not a living soul was saying the problem with the Rangers was that they were slower than molasses.

And again, get this team 2-3 speedsters and it doesn't mean shit when your goalie is the only one that can make a long stretch pass, shots that go wider than a chipped field goal, or you have players do spin-o-ramas in front of the goalie while still not getting a SOG.
I've seen NJ completely stifle the Rangers offense because of their skating. And that's the problem, the Rangers are going to have difficulty putting pucks in the net the rest of the series because they have no forecheck and they can't get through the NZ with possession. Unless they score 2 PPGs a game the rest of the series they wont score enough to win.
 
The Atlantic has an article ranking teams futures today. They have the Devils ranked #1 in the league but they also have us ranked #5 in the league. This is based on the future not today.
 
Haha bring it on bud

I like the guy but he’s a floater most of the time, it’s not even debatable, you can throw whatever %’s you want at me I’m not playing that game when I watch literally every game and see how games play out

He has his moments and last year it all clicked for him and I enjoyed it but he still has the “have you seen Chris” part to his game as well

If he beats a guy to a puck that’s great but when he doesn’t or when there’s a forward coming up ice how about once in while using that big body and actually finishing a check?

The fact he draws so few penalties is kind of a testament to how floaty he can be, can’t draw penalties working hard with that size and strength? Something isn’t right there

It’s like all our top guys have one specific thing they do and rest their laurels on it
Every player has games where they're not noticeable. He's held to higher standards because he's a great athlete.

He does finish his checks and he's very effective at checking. People want him to be Robocop and that doesn't even exist in the game anymore outside of arguably Tom Wilson, and Wilson has probably 70 games out of 82 where he doesn't so much as look at somebody funny.

People want Kreider to be something that isn't real.

And I mean, you can assess him as a player any way you want but to say he's a floater with the abuse he takes in front and the injuries he's had (and played through) is just ridiculous.
 
I'm just a rando that logs in 1-2 times a year but this game got me:

Ever since the 2nd period of game 3 the Rangers/Devils have been playing extremely boring 50/50 hockey. Defensively responsible, lots of safe, boring shots for each goalie. The difference I see is that the Rangers are abysmal at taking mid-high danger shots in the face of this 50/50 hockey. I don't exactly fault Shesterkin here but he's had an overall easy series. Outside of the Hughes breakaway, hes getting beaten by clean or screened top corner wristers from mid range. And thats ok but it's 50/50.

Last nights game was so boring I turned it off before the 3rd because even if the Rangers won it would be a boring game. Perhaps my mind just wipes such things but this game up to that point was the most boring playoff game I can ever remember. I don't even know if the Devils goalie has faced a single A+ shot attempt since he started. He has had it easy too. Lots of basic "drop in butterfly shots" that end up killing the play. The shots that beat him was 50/50 hockey. Just like Shesterkin.

The last 2 games have given me the feeling of watching higher level mens league while waiting to play a game myself. It's like watching 2 Carolina Hurricanes against eachother with less volume fluff shots.

I don't really think it's over, at all......But I don't think I am going to watch game 5 because I feel it's going to be another 50/50 game where watching the box score/highlights will be just as exciting as watching it live. This is supposed to be playoff hockey and I am struggling to pay attention to a sport that I once remember being the most exciting on the planet.

It's been defensively responsible on both sides, yes. They've been rubbing out our players on the walls and in the corners in their zone, and we've been breaking up a shit ton of their rushes with sticks in the passing lanes. We've had our third man high for most of the time to slow down their breakouts. They've tried to break free and run like the way they can on the rush but we've been good getting sticks in there.


LOL @Machinehead
I posted it but took it off thinking it wasn't the right time for a joke lol
 
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That doesn't strike you, academic to academic, as a bit condescending?
I try to be nice but people get what they ask for.

To say this team doesn't care after the run they had last year is insulting to everyone's intelligence.

I'm not obligated to take everything seriously.
 
I don't know shit about hockey analytics, but this isn't flattering to us is it.
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Every player has games where they're not noticeable. He's held to higher standards because he's a great athlete.

He does finish his checks and he's very effective at checking. People want him to be Robocop and that doesn't even exist in the game anymore outside of arguably Tom Wilson, and Wilson has probably 70 games out of 82 where he doesn't so much as look at somebody funny.

People want Kreider to be something that isn't real.

And I mean, you can assess him as a player any way you want but to say he's a floater with the abuse he takes in front and the injuries he's had (and played through) is just ridiculous.
Cool then I’m ridiculous, don’t really care, sorry I criticized your dude
 
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