Development Camp

[RoadWarrior]

How old is he in October?

Just reminding that time isn't static, he is a year older.

Top 5 picks aren't older.

Have courage, accept even Leafs can have normal results.

PTSD is real in Leafs fans.

Normal results?

Robertson wasn't rushed he just hardly ever played. Cowan and Robertson are two completely different players, Robertson only has a shot and that's it, Cowan has a complete game.

Robertson didn’t play because he was constantly beat up and injured…. It wasn’t by choice.

 

[ULF_55]

They need fillers on the marlies. Otherwise there’s no farm team. Plus you need guys to cover for injuries. The leafs aren’t exactly the deepest team up front.

At one point Verheage and Marchment were write offs….

Yes, so real prospects will get more forgiveness.
And heavier investment.

 

[ULF_55]

Robertson wasn't rushed he just hardly ever played. Cowan and Robertson are two completely different players, Robertson only has a shot and that's it, Cowan has a complete game.

Robertson wasn't Ironman ever...

 

[NJG]

Normal results?


Robertson didn’t play because he was constantly beat up and injured…. It wasn’t by choice.

Because he is injury prone... He was always injured even when he was playing full time with the Marlies and it wasn't because he was facing "Grown men" he wasn't rushed he is just made of glass.

 

[RoadWarrior]

Yes, so real prospects will get more forgiveness.
And heavier investment.

Not much more forgiveness. Toronto fans aren’t exactly forgiving of mistakes.

Because he is injury prone... He was always injured even when he was playing full time with the Marlies and it wasn't because he was facing "Grown men" he wasn't rushed he is just made of glass.

He was fine last season… after gaining some strength.

 

[NJG]

Not much more forgiveness. Toronto fans aren’t exactly forgiving of mistakes.


He was fine last season… after gaining some strength.

He was fine last season because he wasn't injured so he actually played. He learned what not to do and changed his game. Not because of strength.

 

[Kiwi]

On the Marlies he might get second unit time.

He should have a shot at earning a job in camp but at the same time I'm fine with getting a start on the Marlies. He'll get bigger minutes and a chance to grow into a prime role. He needs to get time in at the AHL level to help develop his offensive game. I feel like sheltered minutes in the NHL will stunt his growth in that area.

It wouldn't hurt him to be forced to compete with Quillan on the Marlies for minutes and opportunities

Nothing like competition to make guys better, fast

 

[ULF_55]

Not much more forgiveness. Toronto fans aren’t exactly forgiving of mistakes.


He was fine last season… after gaining some strength.

Fans don't determine anything.

Why I still have faith, while accepting their incompetence... guess I as long as I'm breathing I believe we will get what we deserve.

 

[RoadWarrior]

He was fine last season because he wasn't injured so he actually played. He learned what not to do and changed his game. Not because of strength.

He learned how to take a hit and move the puck. Added strength is part of that. It protects players from injury.

Marner is about 160 lbs soaking wet which is partly why he disappears in the playoffs. He doesn’t have the confidence to go into the tough areas because he knows he’s getting creamed.

 

[LaPlante94]

Well, you gave one option where you get scored against and one option where you don't so obviously the one where you don't get scored on.

If you want to give realistic options we can have a better discussion.

Those aren't realistic options?

Is this better discussion where you just try and say this offensive guy is on the ice more for goal chances and shots for? I would hope so when all they think about is offence and pinching 90% of the time leaving their d partner in a 2 on 1 situation. We see those stats posted all the time but leave out all the turnovers that lead to goals against, 2 on 1s that lead to goals against or even turnovers that lead to penalties against. Unless that offensive guy is consistently putting up like 50-60+ points then I can do without all that other crap they bring.

 

[WillNy29]

Trapped in the defensive zone is Nu Hockey nonsense. You put a shot blocking cycle buster with a defensive partner who can skate and handle a puck and it’s basically one guy does the dirty work and the other transitions. You don’t put two Torey Krug’s together.

Check the logic of this garbage. Auston Matthews was a shot blocking leader as well. Is he a fridge who can’t do other things?

why cant a shot blocking cycle buster also have good skating and advanced the puck up themselves?

 

[WillNy29]

Joel Edmundson’s job is to stop shots from getting to the net, break up scoring chances and leave it to others to get the damn puck out and create offense. If he did everything else he would be Victor Hedman.

And here’s another thing. Auston Matthews scored one damned goal vs Boston. So safe to say whatever their jobs were Edmundson did his job more than Matthews did.

kind of hurts your forwards and hampers overall goalscoring when your defense cant contribute anything in the form of playmaking skill or ability because theyre too busy breaking up scoring chances and then leaving it to the others effectively making it s 5 on 4 when theyre on the ice

 

[Stephen]

why cant a shot blocking cycle buster also have good skating and advanced the puck up themselves?

The idea these guys can’t make a play is a gross exaggeration anyway… but if you’re talking about size, elite defensive work, physicality and high end transition and offensive skills and skating you’re taking about a Miro Heiskanen or a very special franchise defenseman. Sure we can try and get those but it doesn’t mean you crap all over the depth guys.

 

[RoadWarrior]

why cant a shot blocking cycle buster also have good skating and advanced the puck up themselves?

Exactly. Danford is an excellent skater. So is Webber. Just because a player blocks a lot of shots doesn’t mean he’s a pylon.

 

[JT AM da real deal]

Future Considerations: Reports on NCAA players coming to the NHL – Sportsnet.ca

I just read this article on Cade, doesn’t seem to be a slow skater. In fact he skates well in straight lines and has “above average agility in open ice”.

A Capfriendly scouting report grades him a B+ and projects him for the third pair. They state his skating has “matured” in college. They rated his skating 79.

Why are you dissing this guy? Not a Dubas pickup? Do you have the information others don’t?

I watched him for about 30 minutes last week at Ford .. he keeps up in speed drills like red line blue line goal line stops and starts .. his straight line up/down ice speed is fine (not great but he keeps up to play no problem) .. where he gets into trouble is quick pivots both directions to keep his speed up forwards to backwards .. his edgework needs work .. i don't think he ever be a fluid graceful agile skater but all D don't need to be on da chase in their own end .. someone has to play da wall and da net front mover and cycle stopper .. that is his fit

 

[Notsince67]

He's not wrong, getting trapped in your own end isn't a great strategy if you like winning

Webber can block shots, be physical and offer some PK ability but he also needs to be able to advance the puck to his forwards and get the puck out of his own zone
That's something that makes players good defensively

I agree. I've been following this thread for any tidbit of information about some of these guys. I spent little time the last 2 years following up and comers so I'm admittedly pretty ignorant. What I do know is that shot blocking is great but the glaring weakness on the leafs defense has been puck movement and zone denial. Great to see big guys with long sticks knowing how to shot block. Unfortunately, if the defense needs forwards in every situation to assist in zone exits, we dont have the forwards doing what we want them to do...skating up ice with energy and the puck on their stick.

 

[HockeyVirus]

Mintens ceiling is a 3C at most a 2C and that's fine. He will be a very good 3C.

Cowan legit has nothing left to do in junior he's done it all.... And to assume Cowan needs physical strength because NHL D men will punish him is not actually true nor a fact... the NHL has much smaller guys in the league who can play and be effective at his size and smaller.... Cole Caufield & Alex DeBrincat say hello, two players he's bigger and heavier then and they seem to do fine.

Minten if probably a Kampf replacement if we are being honest. Lacks the offense to have bigger minutes but plays the game the right way and has the tools and mindset to be a checking center lower down your lineup.

A PK guy, 4th line center, have him out defending 5 on 6 closing out games, probably able to move up to the third line with injuries and play a role there. All in all, still successful for a later 2nd round pick

 

[TMLBlueandWhite]

I agree. I've been following this thread for any tidbit of information about some of these guys. I spent little time the last 2 years following up and comers so I'm admittedly pretty ignorant. What I do know is that shot blocking is great but the glaring weakness on the leafs defense has been puck movement and zone denial. Great to see big guys with long sticks knowing how to shot block. Unfortunately, if the defense needs forwards in every situation to assist in zone exits, we dont have the forwards doing what we want them to do...skating up ice with energy and the puck on their stick.

Under Keefe the Leafs had a structured breakout system depending on where the forecheck is coming from and how many.

The defenseman retrieves it in the corner and then either wheels it behind the net if both attackers are on him or sends it up if there is only one forechecker pressuring. They preferred to use short outlet passes, moving together as a single unit, to exit the zone. So the forwards by necessity were required to assist in zone exits.

Under Babcock the stretch pass was used with more regularity, which wasn't a bad idea because the Leafs are fast on the wings, and I'm wondering if we will see more of the same from Berube.

 

[LeafParade]

Cowan has a legit shot at making the team.
Minten may be better off in the AHL where he can work on his offence. Otherwise, they may be limiting his long term development.

 

[BertCorbeau]

let’s keep this discussion about the development camp please

 

[Stringer Bell]

I am hoping they give Lisowsky an AHL contract. He seems really eager for one and does not want to go back to junior at all.

 

[Notsince67]

Under Keefe the Leafs had a structured breakout system depending on where the forecheck is coming from and how many.

The defenseman retrieves it in the corner and then either wheels it behind the net if both attackers are on him or sends it up if there is only one forechecker pressuring. They preferred to use short outlet passes, moving together as a single unit, to exit the zone. So the forwards by necessity were required to assist in zone exits.

Under Babcock the stretch pass was used with more regularity, which wasn't a bad idea because the Leafs are fast on the wings, and I'm wondering if we will see more of the same from Berube.

I actually dissliked both extremes. That said, Rielly is actually a great puck moving dman so aided by Tanev, I think we have a winner on the first pair because he is no slouch either...though a step beneath. He also has better defensive qualities. Would be nice to see another good puck mover added beyond the stay at home types. The last decent one was Dermott...albeit he had other flaws

 

[Notsince67]

Out of all the invites so far, McCleary has been impressing quite a bit. He's big and a pretty good skater.

I saw the scouting on this guy.
"Transition’s where McCleary’s impact is most felt, and it’s through activation and deception rather than explosiveness. He deceives forecheckers with his eyes, looks to pass through pressure to create space up the ice, and accelerates out of his passes to join the rush"

Holy hell this guy might be Jesus to this team.

 

[SprDaVE]

Minten if probably a Kampf replacement if we are being honest. Lacks the offense to have bigger minutes but plays the game the right way and has the tools and mindset to be a checking center lower down your lineup.

A PK guy, 4th line center, have him out defending 5 on 6 closing out games, probably able to move up to the third line with injuries and play a role there. All in all, still successful for a later 2nd round pick

He needs to get faster. Sometimes his acceleration really hurts his ability to create separation offensiely. But he's very good with the puck, very good wrister and good passer, and deceptively strong on the forecheck.

I saw the scouting on this guy.
"Transition’s where McCleary’s impact is most felt, and it’s through activation and deception rather than explosiveness. He deceives forecheckers with his eyes, looks to pass through pressure to create space up the ice, and accelerates out of his passes to join the rush"

Holy hell this guy might be Jesus to this team.

He looked like a very good prospect yesterday. Stood out quite a bit. I'd be shocked if the Leafs don't bring him on the Marlies. I hope they don't miss out here.

 

[NJG]

Minten if probably a Kampf replacement if we are being honest. Lacks the offense to have bigger minutes but plays the game the right way and has the tools and mindset to be a checking center lower down your lineup.

A PK guy, 4th line center, have him out defending 5 on 6 closing out games, probably able to move up to the third line with injuries and play a role there. All in all, still successful for a later 2nd round pick

Agree although I do think his ceiling is a little higher then a 4C I think he's a 3C once he reaches his potential and could maybe even push to be a good two way 2C. I think his offensive game will come and people will be surprised.

But yeah either way for a second rounder to become a 3C / 2C that's still pretty solid and I like him as a prospect, I like his game and it's only going to get better. He just needs the experience right now, I think letting him take Kampf's spot and play the fourth line is perfect. Give him sheltered minutes, let him learn the ropes without too much pressure and slowly ease him into the third C if he's playing well enough or with injuries.