Development Camp

[ULF_55]

I agree. I've been following this thread for any tidbit of information about some of these guys. I spent little time the last 2 years following up and comers so I'm admittedly pretty ignorant. What I do know is that shot blocking is great but the glaring weakness on the leafs defense has been puck movement and zone denial. Great to see big guys with long sticks knowing how to shot block. Unfortunately, if the defense needs forwards in every situation to assist in zone exits, we dont have the forwards doing what we want them to do...skating up ice with energy and the puck on their stick.

I've watched Liljegren enough to know that puck movement is where he is going to be best. With more repetition and better structure that will improve.

The few games Klingberg got into, he showed me why Treliving signed him. Unfortunately, he is broken.

One report said Webber makes a good first pass, now if he can clear the slot, block shots, man the wall, and make a good first pass to Liljegren that might make a decent pairing. Not expecting a 4th. round pick to become a 1st. pairing defender. But if he take the man out, it isn't unreasonable or a stretch to expect your teammates to pick up the puck.

I really don't expect anything from Webber, and I expect little from all but about 4 players in the scrimmage yesterday.

 

[Notsince67]

I've watched Liljegren enough to know that puck movement is where he is going to be best at. With more repetition and better structure that will improve.

The few games Klingberg got into, he showed me why Treliving signed him. Unfortunately, he is broken.

One report said Webber makes a good first pass, now if he can clear the slot, block shots, man the wall, and make a good first pass to Liljegren that might make a decent pairing. Not expecting a 4th. round pick to become a 1st. pairing defender. But if he take the man out, it isn't unreasonable or a stretch to expect your teammates to pick up the puck.

I really don't expect anything from Webber, and I expect little from all but about 4 players in the scrimmage yesterday.

Yeah...Lil is a curious case. I don't want to completely blame coaching but he has always been naturally talented at moving the puck but it really feels that they tried to change the kind of defenseman he was to back fill what was hole. Hopefully they unleash him

 

[stickty111]

I've watched Liljegren enough to know that puck movement is where he is going to be best. With more repetition and better structure that will improve.

The few games Klingberg got into, he showed me why Treliving signed him. Unfortunately, he is broken.

One report said Webber makes a good first pass, now if he can clear the slot, block shots, man the wall, and make a good first pass to Liljegren that might make a decent pairing. Not expecting a 4th. round pick to become a 1st. pairing defender. But if he take the man out, it isn't unreasonable or a stretch to expect your teammates to pick up the puck.

I really don't expect anything from Webber, and I expect little from all but about 4 players in the scrimmage yesterday.

Personally the Webber talk might be getting a bit carried away. I really don't think he's as close to the NHL as it appears. They did sign him to an ELC so they clearly like him, but that doesn't mean he's close.
I will say Marlies defence should be strong

 

[therealkoho]

I've watched Liljegren enough to know that puck movement is where he is going to be best. With more repetition and better structure that will improve.

The few games Klingberg got into, he showed me why Treliving signed him. Unfortunately, he is broken.

One report said Webber makes a good first pass, now if he can clear the slot, block shots, man the wall, and make a good first pass to Liljegren that might make a decent pairing. Not expecting a 4th. round pick to become a 1st. pairing defender. But if he take the man out, it isn't unreasonable or a stretch to expect your teammates to pick up the puck.

I really don't expect anything from Webber, and I expect little from all but about 4 players in the scrimmage yesterday.

maybe I missed it, but which 4 if you don't mind

 

[ULF_55]

Personally the Webber talk might be getting a bit carried away. I really don't think he's as close to the NHL as it appears. They did sign him to an ELC so they clearly like him, but that doesn't mean he's close.
I will say Marlies defence should be strong

Is anyone expecting him to be on the NHL opening day line-up?

 

[ULF_55]

maybe I missed it, but which 4 if you don't mind

Minten, Cowan and 2 random players ...

Sounds like Holinka impressed management.

Miroslav Holinka - Stats, Contract, Salary & More

Eliteprospects.com hockey player profile of Miroslav Holinka, 2005-11-10 Kromeriz, CZE Czechia. Most recently in the WHL with Edmonton Oil Kings. Complete player biography and stats.

www.eliteprospects.com

You'd hope Danforth.

 

[Maple Leaf]

Is anyone expecting him to be on the NHL opening day line-up?

Leafs have too many D ahead of him

 

[Lightsol]

Under Keefe the Leafs had a structured breakout system depending on where the forecheck is coming from and how many.

The defenseman retrieves it in the corner and then either wheels it behind the net if both attackers are on him or sends it up if there is only one forechecker pressuring. They preferred to use short outlet passes, moving together as a single unit, to exit the zone. So the forwards by necessity were required to assist in zone exits.

Under Babcock the stretch pass was used with more regularity, which wasn't a bad idea because the Leafs are fast on the wings, and I'm wondering if we will see more of the same from Berube.

Keefe's breakout strategy was so predictable youi could time the opposing forward heading to the boards to cut off the "up the boards" breakout pass EVERYONE knew was coming...

 

[Lightsol]

Yeah...Lil is a curious case. I don't want to completely blame coaching but he has always been naturally talented at moving the puck but it really feels that they tried to change the kind of defenseman he was to back fill what was hole. Hopefully they unleash him

The problems with Lilj are really twofold:

• His most common partners in the last few years have either been stay-at-home guys with no puck moving abilities (Edmundson) or aging veterans (Giordano). The pairing basically required him to be the puck mover AND retriever. And in pairings like this, he resembles a less dangerous Gardiner; he's not prone to the INSANE mistakes Gardiner used to give us, but if he's pressured and his D partner sucks at puck moving, he'll overcompensate.
• Keefe yoyoed him SO MUCH over the last three years that he's almost definitely in his own head at this point ("Oh, God, I don't want to screw this up... I don't want another 5 games in the pressbox..."). I'm hoping Berube and the new staff can help reverse this.

 

[Fogelhund]

Is anyone expecting him to be on the NHL opening day line-up?

Not a chance.

 

[JT AM da real deal]

Keefe's breakout strategy was so predictable youi could time the opposing forward heading to the boards to cut off the "up the boards" breakout pass EVERYONE knew was coming...

Berube runs da most basic and simple breakout in nhl .. it is tried and true for a hundred years .. D has choice to skate puck behind net, reverse puck behind net to partner or move puck up to wing on da wall .. there are always only 3 options .. forecheck does not know what D will do so it can't be advanced read .. it relies on D to make right call .. it also relies on winger to be able to fight hard on wall with opposing D .. some of our SOFT wingers are going to learn to fight for pucks on wall which is probably a good thing for their playoff development .. everyone on team has played this system already for years growing up so it won't be hard .. Cs are used in a puck support role and to clean up any mistakes .. great thing about Berube is there are no special exemptions .. every line 1 to 4 and all 3 D pairs play same way .. it will be good for Leafs to learn to play low scoring tight checking hockey during season .. it can't be a switch .. it comes with reps

 

[ULF_55]

Not a chance.

I suspect he'll fight for a spot on the Marlies.

 

[Fogelhund]

I suspect he'll fight for a spot on the Marlies.

It's going to take him time, to adjust to the faster pro game, where a lot of the players are bigger and stronger. He's a long shot anyway, but I'd see him on the Marlies for at least this year. Then maybe next year, if everything goes incredibly well for him, maybe he'll see some injury call ups in 2025-26. He could have a longer path, or perhaps he doesn't make it at all.

 

[Gallagbi]

The problems with Lilj are really twofold:

• His most common partners in the last few years have either been stay-at-home guys with no puck moving abilities (Edmundson) or aging veterans (Giordano). The pairing basically required him to be the puck mover AND retriever. And in pairings like this, he resembles a less dangerous Gardiner; he's not prone to the INSANE mistakes Gardiner used to give us, but if he's pressured and his D partner sucks at puck moving, he'll overcompensate.
• Keefe yoyoed him SO MUCH over the last three years that he's almost definitely in his own head at this point ("Oh, God, I don't want to screw this up... I don't want another 5 games in the pressbox..."). I'm hoping Berube and the new staff can help reverse this.

I'd argue he's pretty mistake prone. Flubbing pucks with no pressure, fanning pucks as last man back. Picking ROR for the season clinching GA vs. Florida

He's always had a great skillset but struggled to pull it together. His draft stock plummeted for a reason. He's not awful, but there's been some pretty clear Lilj based gaps in his game. Hopefully he works through it in his mid 20s like some others have

 

[JT AM da real deal]

I'd argue he's pretty mistake prone. Flubbing pucks with no pressure, fanning pucks as last man back. Picking ROR for the season clinching GA vs. Florida

He's always had a great skillset but struggled to pull it together. His draft stock plummeted for a reason. He's not awful, but there's been some pretty clear Lilj based gaps in his game. Hopefully he works through it in his mid 20s like some others have

I would have preferred a 1 year make or break contract for Lily .. but he may be type of guy who can't handle pressure so 2 years just gives him more breathing space .. either way he has all da skills required but it remains to be seen if he can take step to a top 4 guy .. it is all on him .. we have given up on too many D .. i was in favor of giving him one more chance based on some of his earlier progressions .. he has made huge strides from day 1 with Marlies .. and i mean HUGE strides

 

[stickty111]

Is anyone expecting him to be on the NHL opening day line-up?

No. Mine was just a general statement

 

[Gallagbi]

I would have preferred a 1 year make or break contract for Lily .. but he may be type of guy who can't handle pressure so 2 years just gives him more breathing space .. either way he has all da skills required but it remains to be seen if he can take step to a top 4 guy .. it is all on him .. we have given up on too many D .. i was in favor of giving him one more chance based on some of his earlier progressions .. he has made huge strides from day 1 with Marlies .. and i mean HUGE strides

I'm fine with the term, thought the deal was a little rich given his role recently and what Benoit signed for

He's not worth throwing away, needs time to see if he can breakout but I agree with your comment that he's come a long way. I just don't like pretending his development is some anomaly that's been side tracked

 

[Stephen]

Is anyone expecting him to be on the NHL opening day line-up?

Shouldn't be in the opening day lineup... though the best case scenario for the Leafs would be for a guy like Niemela and Webber to seriously contend for a job which opens up something on their Top 6 defensive group to be moved out to rebalance some forward depth.

 

[ULF_55]

They need fillers on the marlies. Otherwise there’s no farm team. Plus you need guys to cover for injuries. The leafs aren’t exactly the deepest team up front.

At one point Verheage and Marchment were write offs….

Definitely, but fillers don't take precedence over NHL futures.

I've read here in the past couple weeks the GM forced the NHL coach to play 'X' more minutes than they should. I don't buy it, but I could see a GM make a player unavailable to a coach in the NHL. If that can/does happen in the NHL, doing it in their development system is a given.

Example, if a NHL player needed to get minutes to get back up to speed and they were sent to the AHL the coach is going to play him.

 

[ULF_55]

I watched him for about 30 minutes last week at Ford .. he keeps up in speed drills like red line blue line goal line stops and starts .. his straight line up/down ice speed is fine (not great but he keeps up to play no problem) .. where he gets into trouble is quick pivots both directions to keep his speed up forwards to backwards .. his edgework needs work .. i don't think he ever be a fluid graceful agile skater but all D don't need to be on da chase in their own end .. someone has to play da wall and da net front mover and cycle stopper .. that is his fit

He's a smart kid.
I'm sure he knows about angles, and anticipation.
His skating didn't look out of place in the scrimmage. Yes just a scrimmage, but it wasn't just a scrimmage for him, it was a scrimmage for the rest of the players, so an equal platform for comparison.
He can be the wall and marner can stand behind him ...

 

[JT AM da real deal]

He's a smart kid.
I'm sure he knows about angles, and anticipation.
His skating didn't look out of place in the scrimmage. Yes just a scrimmage, but it wasn't just a scrimmage for him, it was a scrimmage for the rest of the players, so an equal platform for comparison.
He can be the wall and marner can stand behind him ...

I like him too .. ps marner will have to stand up for himself this year on da wall .. there will be no more special plays to help out Mitch .. he has already been told .. hate to say it but i expect Mitch to get hurt this year .. he has never been able to play a fast tough game as when he is on ice .. he plays da rover position from minor hockey to junior to pro but this season he has been told it will no longer be tolerated .. he will play Berube's system which is same for every line and every D pair .. i hope i am wrong but that is my prediction this season

 

[Gaberd2608]

I like him too .. ps marner will have to stand up for himself this year on da wall .. there will be no more special plays to help out Mitch .. he has already been told .. hate to say it but i expect Mitch to get hurt this year .. he has never been able to play a fast tough game as when he is on ice .. he plays da rover position from minor hockey to junior to pro but this season he has been told it will no longer be tolerated .. he will play Berube's system which is same for every line and every D pair .. i hope i am wrong but that is my prediction this season

Who told him this?

 

[PROUD PAPA]

Keefe's breakout strategy was so predictable youi could time the opposing forward heading to the boards to cut off the "up the boards" breakout pass EVERYONE knew was coming...

Of all the strategies he committed to, the piss poor breakout system gave was by far the most infuriating. I genuinely couldn't believe we stuck with it.

 

[RoadWarrior]

Definitely, but fillers don't take precedence over NHL futures.

I've read here in the past couple weeks the GM forced the NHL coach to play 'X' more minutes than they should. I don't buy it, but I could see a GM make a player unavailable to a coach in the NHL. If that can/does happen in the NHL, doing it in their development system is a given.

Example, if a NHL player needed to get minutes to get back up to speed and they were sent to the AHL the coach is going to play

Of all the strategies he committed to, the piss poor breakout system gave was by far the most infuriating. I genuinely couldn't believe we stuck with it.

There was no D to make those breakout passes except Rielly and Liljegren. OEL and Tanev will help the transition game.

 

[PROUD PAPA]

There was no D to make those breakout passes except Rielly and Liljegren. OEL and Tanev will help the transition game.

Yet we stuck to it like glue.