Detroit Redwings Downfall

[newfy]

Frist of all. Learn to argue without tossing insults. Or put me on ignore. Happy to have a hockey talk with you. I don't agree with any of your views but I have yet to call you any names or call your ideas any names.

Anyways... are these the 2 seasons where he outperformed Stutzl:

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Do you think he outperformed Barkov too?

You do see Stutzl played less games, right? You do see Stutzl has a higher .ppg, right? This is not outperforming a guy. At it's base you are using raw stats to show has 3 more points over 2 season in 7 more games and declaring a victory. When I use raw stats to show that Stutzl has more GP, G, A and TP it is disengenuous. What is sincere about your argument?

Also you keep making up a quote where I said Stutzl is significantly better.. quote where I said it or stop making things up. Same age, same draft, same opportunities. One is clearly ahead today. The one in the playoffs right now.

Lol when you say dumb stuff I'll say its dumb... like this post right here.

In that time frame Stutzle played 212 more minutes than Raymond did including 71 more minutes on the powerplay. In that time, Raymond has 16 more goals and 6 more primary assists. Stutzle has a large lead in secondary assists to make up the difference.

Stutzles primary points per game is 0.56, Raymonds is 0.67. Good for an almost ten point difference in primary points over an 82 game season, without accounting for the noticeable difference in time on ice, including the powerplay. So yes, Stutzles edge in secondary assists puts him clearly ahead like you said in this post, and implied earlier in another post by using basically raw stats. Smrt

I didnt want to get into this comparison because it'll end up sending the thread off kilter, and I'm not even saying Raymond is clearly ahead or anything. But acting like there's someone clearly ahead of the other in this comparison is stupid. I hope that doesn't hurt your feelings

 

[FriendlyGhost92]

Larkin should try getting his team over .300 in a March instead of wondering about overpaying for deadline pickups.

The team badly needs a defensive upgrade, but when you see Brandon Carlo traded for a 1st + Minten and your team just went 2-4-1 and is currently out of a playoff spot, it's not hard to see why a 4th liner for a backup goalie is the only move he made.

 

[Hockeyfan2390]

And you will be hearing about it until the drafted players are old enough / have taken enough steps to get into the team. Patience is key.

The Red Wings haven't made the playoffs since 2016. Literally the longest streak in their history (which is now almost 100 years), and they've missed all six years under Yzerman. The time for patience is over.

I (and the overwhelming majority of the Red Wings fan base) have been patient enough. This isn't the Sabres or the Senators where a single playoff appearance per decade is the norm or standard.

Yzerman should know that, considering he was the most visible member of the group that re-wrote the standard of NHL success during his playing career.

Or unrealistic viewpoint. Nothing that says the Ducks will gain so much ground over the summer to make the playoffs.

Unrealistic or not, Verbeek actually appears to be holding himself accountable to his paying customers and showing an urgency to get back on the winning track.

 

[JediOrderPizza]

The team badly needs a defensive upgrade, but when you see Brandon Carlo traded for a 1st + Minten and your team just went 2-4-1 and is currently out of a playoff spot, it's not hard to see why a 4th liner for a backup goalie is the only move he made.

Even if they did spend, a Cozens isn't getting us in the playoffs if the cost was Kasper. Kasper had more goals.

 

[Czechboy]

and I'm not even saying Raymond is clearly ahead or anything.

You said he was better the last 2 seasons twice.. I'll show how to use the quote function so you don't have to make things up like you do for me

When one player has scored a lot more goals, and out produced the other the last 2 seasons

he has 2 seasons where he outperformed Stutzle

There are you 2 quotes. He has 3 more points over 2 seasons with 7 more games played and you are calling that outperforming.

Anyways, you couldn't reply without insulting. So I'm done. I don't put people on ignore but I wouldn't expect any more replies. So feel free to have the last word.

 

[Dr Quincy]

Saying the players want to compete seems a bit dishonest when you went into 4 Nations in a playoff spot and came out of it with an 11-13-3 record.

There's blame to go in every direction.

A player "competing" doesn't guarantee a win. It means they are.... wait for it.... competing for a win.

Is it Dylan Larkin's sole fault that the team went 11-13-3 in that stretch? Are you suggesting that Larkin didn't try hard after 4 nations? That he wasn't competing?

There's nothing at all dishonest about saying a player wants to compete if he is trying to do just that. But if you want to call the Wings' captain our for purposefully not trying then go ahead.

 

[FriendlyGhost92]

I see your point but he makes 3.4 and you can only bury about 1.2 (roughly). So it'd be over 2 mill against cap. I get the not spending against the cap but when you see a team not making playoffs with cap space and the captain is saying the team was down after no TDL moves. Might be time to spend more and make a swing or two. I'm an Oiler fan so I really don't know what cap space is. And our books during the decade of darkness were always full of bad players on too long contracts and buyouts. It does bite you in the ass later.

We're sitting on about $20M in cap if you assume Mazur plays next year and Soderblom and AlJo get re-signed for about $3M combined.

That's $20M to re-sign Kane (I kinda assume this based on his comments about tearing his kid away from Debrincat's) and add one more forward and a defender.

So I don't think the $1.1M extra saved on Holl in 25-26 is worth eating it again in 26-27. (Same as Tarasenko)

What I would be curious about is the market for a guy like Tarasenko or Compher at 50% retained. You wouldn't get any asset of significance, but I do wonder if a team would value either of those guys at 50% for free or near free.

 

[FriendlyGhost92]

A player "competing" doesn't guarantee a win. It means they are.... wait for it.... competing for a win.

Is it Dylan Larkin's sole fault that the team went 11-13-3 in that stretch? Are you suggesting that Larkin didn't try hard after 4 nations? That he wasn't competing?

There's nothing at all dishonest about saying a player wants to compete if he is trying to do just that. But if you want to call the Wings' captain our for purposefully not trying then go ahead.

It's the team as a whole's fault lol. And yes, Larkin is included in that.

You can put fault on Yzerman for basically doing f*** all during the offseason, but when you post a shit record from 4 Nations to the TDL and are sitting outside the playoffs, you shouldn't expect a big add was going to happen.

 

[Czechboy]

We're sitting on about $20M in cap if you assume Mazur plays next year and Soderblom and AlJo get re-signed for about $3M combined.

That's $20M to re-sign Kane (I kinda assume this based on his comments about tearing his kid away from Debrincat's) and add one more forward and a defender.

So I don't think the $1.1M extra saved on Holl in 25-26 is worth eating it again in 26-27. (Same as Tarasenko)

What I would be curious about is the market for a guy like Tarasenko or Compher at 50% retained. You wouldn't get any asset of significance, but I do wonder if a team would value either of those guys at 50% for free or near free.

What do you think Kane gets? And do his performance bonuses hit the Wing's cap next season? Eg. Brown's did for the Oilers but I'm not sure how that works.

 

[Dr Quincy]

Larkin should try getting his team over .300 in a March instead of wondering about overpaying for deadline pickups.

So you don't think he tried?

Wow what kind of awful GM extends a guy for that many years when the player doesn't even try to win in March? Oh and makes him the captain.

 

[FriendlyGhost92]

What do you think Kane gets? And do his performance bonuses hit the Wing's cap next season? Eg. Brown's did for the Oilers but I'm not sure how that works.

I believe Kane's bonuses will hit this season. (24-25) I could be wrong but I think they mentioned that on a broadcast just after the TDL.

What he gets is hard to say simply because his post-season comments appear to indicate he has no intention of playing anywhere but Detroit.

He's made almost $120M in his career. So I guess the question would be, does he want to be paid what he's worth, or is he willing to take less money if Yzerman came to him and said he wants to go after a Marner or Ekblad or Boeser or Ehlers or Provorov? $2M - $3M doesn't really seem like much to Patrick Kane, but we don't typically see players take obvious discounts.

 

[Czechboy]

I believe Kane's bonuses will hit this season. (24-25) I could be wrong but I think they mentioned that on a broadcast just after the TDL.

What he gets is hard to say simply because his post-season comments appear to indicate he has no intention of playing anywhere but Detroit.

He's made almost $120M in his career. So I guess the question would be, does he want to be paid what he's worth, or is he willing to take less money if Yzerman came to him and said he wants to go after a Marner or Ekblad or Boeser or Ehlers or Provorov? $2M - $3M doesn't really seem like much to Patrick Kane, but we don't typically see players take obvious discounts.

My guess is 1 x 3. He was worth his contract this year IMO.

Every guy you mentioned would help a lot.

 

[FriendlyGhost92]

My guess is 1 x 3. He was worth his contract this year IMO.

Every guy you mentioned would help a lot.

$3M for Kane would be extremely team-friendly for the year Kane just had.

I think my move would be to call up BUF and see how much we have to add to 12OA to pull Byram from them. I have more hope that ASP can adequately fill a Top 4 role long-term than Wallinder or Buium or even AlJo.

Likewise, I have more hope that Mazur/Danielson/MBN/Buchelnikov can be effective contributors as Middle 6 forwards in the next year or two.

 

[SirKillalot]

Unrealistic or not, Verbeek actually appears to be holding himself accountable to his paying customers and showing an urgency to get back on the winning track.

If any paying customers is unhappy about it, go support another team. We don't want you.
No one if forcing them to be there. If they are not capable of understanding that player must develop and this isn't a quick fix just to make the playoffs, go support Vegas. Good team for them.

The Red Wings haven't made the playoffs since 2016. Literally the longest streak in their history (which is now almost 100 years), and they've missed all six years under Yzerman. The time for patience is over.

No, this team will have patience to build a roster that has long term possibilities to fight for a cup or cups.
Not spur of the moment things just to make a playoff appearance early and fade off.

I (and the overwhelming majority of the Red Wings fan base) have been patient enough. This isn't the Sabres or the Senators where a single playoff appearance per decade is the norm or standard.

There is no overwhelming majority that claims playoff or bust and trade their future players for possible fits that also have no guarantees.

 

[Nemesis Prime]

On a Czech media feed today.lol Larkin seems a bit pissed at his Yzerboss.lol I only wish someone told him to be patient

I want this clown gone. We gave up Walman to appease this bum and now he's crying about no adds. Yzerman did good by not wasting assets to improve this team, considering how they've played since the Four Nations.

 

[Czechboy]

I think my move would be to call up BUF and see how much we have to add to 12OA to pull Byram from them.

I have more hope that ASP can adequately fill a Top 4 role long-term than Wallinder or Buium or even AlJo.

Agree on ASP.. it's a safe bet. But I'm not expecting a Hutson like rookie season. Growing pains is my guess and a up and down season (kind of like Kasper) with deployments that wlll piss off the fans (kind of like Kasper.lol). I think year 3 is where ASP is killing it. My guess is 60 NHL games and about 15 to 20 points next season. Hope his AHL time gives him a nice summer 'to do' list. But, Hutson did do it this year and if Asp starts on PP1 then it could take off real fast. AlJo is a bottom pair guy IMO but a very good one. Ed is amazing and my fav thing of this season in Detroit. I'd kill for him in Edmonton. I'm higher on Seider than most (I have him in top tier).

Wild fans love Buium. If Jiricek makes the Wild next year, I'll have a much stronger opinion as I'll be a Wild fan on the side.lol

 

[VetPresence]

Well. Complaining about morale as the team captain is a bit weird.

Not to mention expecting some big add as you lost 5 out of 7 between 4 Nations and the TDL.

Well at least you confirmed it now- you are an Yzerfan first and a Red Wings fan (distant) second. Fan critiques about Steve's rebuild? Nope, they don't know anything. Media critiques? Nope, also don't know anything. Player critiques? No way, why would the guys who literally play for the team know what they're talking about???

I genuinely don't think there is anything that can change your mind on whether Yzerman is a good GM or not. You've decided for whatever reason that is the case, the facts and reality be damned.

 

[EpochLink]

How is this on page 177?

 

[Bear of Bad News]

How is this on page 177?

Because it has 4,419 posts.

 

[Kranix]

all it comes down to is Stevie has had catastrophically bad luck at the draft, whereas in Tampa, he had sparkling, miraculous luck at the draft. Same for any GM

 

[MessierII]

all it comes down to is Stevie has had catastrophically bad luck at the draft, whereas in Tampa, he had sparkling, miraculous luck at the draft. Same for any GM

He also got to start with a franchise D man and 60 goal center.

 

[FriendlyGhost92]

I want this clown gone. We gave up Walman to appease this bum and now he's crying about no adds. Yzerman did good by not wasting assets to improve this team, considering how they've played since the Four Nations.

I don't have a problem with him being frustrated. The expectation considering how the team was performing is just a bit laughable.

The problem is, Detroit needs to badly upgrade defense, and there's not much worthwhile in UFA in that regard.

 

[RedHawkDown]

Larkin shouldn't be captain. What an embarrassing press conference for a captain to give.

 

[chaser17]

Larkin shouldn't be captain. What an embarrassing press conference for a captain to give.

That's Detroits biggest issue imo. Larkin is treated like a superstar when he isn't one.

 

[FriendlyGhost92]

all it comes down to is Stevie has had catastrophically bad luck at the draft, whereas in Tampa, he had sparkling, miraculous luck at the draft. Same for any GM

Trying to figure out how Detroit's drafting could be considered "Catastrophically bad" since Yzerman took over...