I love the ongoing narrative about the favorable location and taxes benefitted Yzerman.
Tampa's entire core was built through players they drafted, and Yzerman has done pretty damn well with the long term contracts of Larkin/Raymond/Seider.
I love the ongoing narrative about the favorable location and taxes benefitted Yzerman.
Tampa's entire core was built through players they drafted, and Yzerman has done pretty damn well with the long term contracts of Larkin/Raymond/Seider.
SirKillalot
Registered User
If that is your benchmark of what is a good team, then sure have that view.
Not going to be many cups based on that.
Fatass
Registered User
- Apr 17, 2017
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The Wings have missed every year under Yzerman. Can’t win the Cup that way.
OldCraig71
Registered User
If the Wings played more games like they did last night against the Habs they would easily be in a playoff spot. We lose that one convincingly if not for Montembeault.
Run the Jewels
Make Detroit Great Again
Keep posting garbage that is supposed to pass as insight. I've been critical of Yzerman's NA amateur scouting and his pro scouting, This is where all of the organization's failures have occurred. If you weren't so hell bent on your narrative of YZERMAN BAD, maybe you could dig a bit deeper. It takes effort though, and I get effort isn't your thing. With that being the case, this will be my last reply to you. This is not worth my time.
Yzerman is building through center and that't why he targeted Copp and Compher in free agency. Neither are game changers, but it's clear what Yzerman was attempting to do. Copp has been the 2C and that is an indictment of the organization's drafting and development. Here are the guys Detroit drafted as potential centers:
2023: Nate Danielson (9OA pick)
2022: Marco Kasper (8OA pick)
2020: Theodor Niederbach (51OA pick)
2018: Joe Veleno (30OA pick)
2017: Michael Rasmussen (9OA pick)
2014: Dylan Larkin (15OA pick)
They used good draft capital on three centers from 2017-2020 and none of them hit. In 2017, they could have drafted Gabe Vilardi, Martin Necas or Nick Suzuki. Only Suzuki ended up playing as a center in the NHL. I'm not a fan of hindsight, so let's just say this is an indictment of Detroit's NA scouting, who pounded the table for Rasmussen. Oh, Yzerman was still in Tampa at this time, so if you want to criticize Yzerman for not having a time machine, that would fit your current narrative I guess.
There were no obvious misses at center in 2018, even if you used the Zadina pick. The obvious miss there was not drafting Quinn Hughes, who grew up right in Detroit's backyard. Again, a massive miss from Detroit's NA scouting who viewed Hughes as a non-starter, and this is from someone on this forum who has some relationship with someone in Detroit's scouting department. He said if Zadina wasn't available they were going to draft Evan Bouchard. Yzerman was still in Tampa at this time, another great win for your time machine narrative I guess.
For 2020, Raymond was their first pick, and while he's not a center, he's looking much better than his draft position. With Niederbach, there were no obvious misses at center given where he was taken in the draft.
So add it all up and you have one miss in 2017, where there was one high quality center available, who was drafted by Vegas and then traded away in the Pacioretty deal.
Marco Kasper is looking like a 2C and compares favorably to Sam Bennett's 20yo season in Calgary. He should be the 2C going forward. That bumps Copp down a line where he can be much better. Nate Danielson may finally be a win for our NA scouting, but I'm skeptical given their track record. Regardless, a top 3 of Larkin, Kasper and Copp with Danielson and Compher as depth make this team competitive as soon as next season.
I get that you will post some nonsense in reply about how bad Yzerman is and that he should have used some magic beans to get a scoring line center.
BLONG7
Registered User
The 1st period was a disaster for the Habs, and Monty saved their butts...............Wings dominated and that may have been their best period of hockey, and Montreal's worst period of hockey all season....
Wings could have been up 2 or 3 nothing after one period.
WarriorofTime
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- Jul 3, 2010
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The hardest part of the Wings to nail down is what exactly is their window.
I don't think anybody has a problem with Seider/Raymond/Edvinsson as 23, 22 and 21 year old future core pieces. Potential questions about "total ceiling" for each as far as true superstars vs. all stars but not a lot you can do there.
Bigger concern is likely that 3 of their 4 best performing forwards with good production are Larkin, DeBrincat and Kane, who are 28, 27 and 36. You can even somewhat throw in Compher (29), Tarasenko (33) and Copp (30). It's not necessarily that there's a whole pile of nothing in the futures of Kasper, Danielsson, and whomever comes out amongst later picks, it's more so a question of if what emerges collectively can be an upgrade on the Larkin/DeBrincat/Kane/Compher/Tarasenko/Copp group of prime-aged forwards to go alongside Raymond (who may fall a little bit short of superstar), or if it's at most more the same.
This is where some of the "hindsight" questions come into play - would it have been better to tank longer and get higher ceiling forwards, would it have been better to trade Larkin early in Yzerman's tenure than ride out his prime on teams not good enough for the postseason, etc.
These are the very real questions about Yzerman's tenure and potential concerns on Wings moving forward.
Pavels Dog
Registered User
Kasper has been so much better than Compher/Tarasenko/Copp this season that to even pose the hypothetical question that there aren't upgrades in the pipeline feels like trolling.
Heck Elmer Söderblom has been a massive upgrade on Tarasenko.
WarriorofTime
Registered User
- Jul 3, 2010
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Stop nitpicking to avoid discussion of larger issue. Did you completely miss “you can even somewhat..”? The issue is they likely need Kasper to be “Larkin” not “Copp”.
Run the Jewels
Make Detroit Great Again
It's strange how well Yzerman has drafted and how poorly he has traded/gone after free agents.
Sidebar: I bet if he had time travel he would undo his Kyle Quincey trade. If you want to read a hilariously cold take, look no further:The Kyle Quincey Trade: Looking back at how the Wings earned 2nd place in a three-team trade
Sidebar: I bet if he had time travel he would undo his Kyle Quincey trade. If you want to read a hilariously cold take, look no further:The Kyle Quincey Trade: Looking back at how the Wings earned 2nd place in a three-team trade
Sega Dreamcast
party like it's 1999
But Yzerman was working for Tampa from 2010 to 2019.
That was a Ken Holland trade.
FissionFire
Registered User
Eichel wanted out of Buffalo to play on a contender. Detroit was never an option.
I know, I meant that if Yzerman knew he would end up in Detroit he would not have made that deal
Czechboy
Easy schedules rule!
- Apr 15, 2018
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While I do think Kasper is going to be quite good... so much better?
In last night's game... the biggest of the season. Tarasenko and Compher got more ice time as well.
I think that Kasper got hot when the team got hot and a lot of fans started posting about 'pace' and that he is a 2C. Which may be true in Detroit as the C Depth is not good at all, but Detroit's 2C averages 15 a night and under .5 ppg. He's only 21 so I do expect an uptick in minutes and points of course but 15 TOI, 44% on the dot and under .5 ppg is not an NHL 2C you will win with a lot in 2025.
My guess for next season is 50 points and 17 TOI. Which would be a great 2C behind Larkin.
I'll add.. Edvinson at .4 ppg and that high TOI is amazing! Get him a Klefbom deal!
OTT shot themselves in the foot when they start trading picks to compete way too early.
They're on a heater that has put them marginally better than Detroit this year, but have very little additional help coming from their prospect pool, whereas Detroit is still loaded.
So yeah, wouldn't be doing a victory dance just yet.
Fatass
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- Apr 17, 2017
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Yup. It’s rare an elite #1 C comes available. But if there is a guy on another club who is struggling and might want out, like Eichel (who also had serious injury concerns and a big contract) then I think Yzerman should try and trade for such a player.
FissionFire
Registered User
The real reason Detroit is struggling to turn the corner and take that next step. Will compare this to the 2 other rebuilding teams in their division.
1OA pick: MTL (2022), OTT (1996, 1995, 1993), DET (n/a)
2OA pick: OTT (2001, 1992), MTL/DET (n/a)
3OA pick: OTT (2020, 2012, 1994), MTL (2018), DET (n/a)
4OA pick: DET (2020), OTT (2018), MTL (n/a)
5OA pick: MTL (2024, 2023, 2005), OTT (2020), DET (n/a)
Tracking back to 1992 when Ottawa came into existence, Detroit has had 1 pick in the top 5 of the draft compared to 5 for Montreal and 10 for Ottawa. Detroit hasn’t had a a pick in the top 3 of any draft since 1986. This is what will doom the rebuild eventually unless they get incredibly lucky and have a stud emerge from outside the top 5. It’s rather ironic that the year the Wings were the worst team in the league all they could manage was a 4th OA pick lol
1OA pick: MTL (2022), OTT (1996, 1995, 1993), DET (n/a)
2OA pick: OTT (2001, 1992), MTL/DET (n/a)
3OA pick: OTT (2020, 2012, 1994), MTL (2018), DET (n/a)
4OA pick: DET (2020), OTT (2018), MTL (n/a)
5OA pick: MTL (2024, 2023, 2005), OTT (2020), DET (n/a)
Tracking back to 1992 when Ottawa came into existence, Detroit has had 1 pick in the top 5 of the draft compared to 5 for Montreal and 10 for Ottawa. Detroit hasn’t had a a pick in the top 3 of any draft since 1986. This is what will doom the rebuild eventually unless they get incredibly lucky and have a stud emerge from outside the top 5. It’s rather ironic that the year the Wings were the worst team in the league all they could manage was a 4th OA pick lol
So in your opinion, the reason Montreal's rebuild bypassed Detroit's this year is because of the play of... Slafkovsky, Kotkaniemi. Demidov, Reinbacher and Carey Price? Oh and let's add Galchenyuk, who you mistakenly attributed to Ottawa. So that's the reason? You think Detroit would be in the playoffs right now if they had those guys instead of Seider, Raymond and Edvinsson?
This is such an odd cop-out. If there's one thing Yzerman has done really well in Detroit, it's picking in the 4-6 range. Lottery luck wouldn't have made this team meaningfully better.
It's even weirder to bring up Ottawa's early 90s picks, from back when they were an expansion franchise. I like Radek Bonk just as much as the next guy, but IMO he's had a pretty minimal impact on the wildcard race this year.
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Both teams were rebuilding at the same time and Ottawa got back into the playoffs and Detroit didn’t. The main reason Ottawa’s rebuild was superior is because Ottawa’s main pieces of the rebuild have outperformed Detroit’s. Players like Stutzle, Tkachuk and Sanderson are better than Seider, Raymond and Edvinsson.OTT shot themselves in the foot when they start trading picks to compete way too early.
They're on a heater that has put them marginally better than Detroit this year, but have very little additional help coming from their prospect pool, whereas Detroit is still loaded.
So yeah, wouldn't be doing a victory dance just yet.
You know you have to make the playoffs to have a chance at the Cup, right?
And you know in order to have success in the playoffs, young foundational players need to experience the realities of playoff hockey and aren't going to go all the way in their first few playoff trips, right?
They're in the playoffs. Detroit isn't. They may not be "Cup contenders", but at least they're going to have a chance at it.
Again, I really don't know where your idea that the Red Wings are automatically going to be guaranteed long-term playoff contention and success based on prospects whom we have no idea will be good at the NHL level is coming from.
Detroit dominated the 1st period, had a "meh" 2nd period, and managed literally a pair of shots in the 3rd period. Not to mention Tarasenko is either literally braindead or outright sabotaged Detroit with the perfect pass to a Habs player, leading directly to their go-ahead goal.
Detroit is deeply loaded .... for continued long-term mediocrity. Average players stacked on other average players and with more average players in the pipeline. Outside players see this, which is why FAs aren't exactly flocking to Detroit. It is going to take the next Wings' GM some years to make them something more than a perpetual bubble team and thus dig them out of this Yzermess.
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