Detroit Redwings Downfall

[RedHawkDown]

it's so odd to criticize Ottawa for having their young players up in the NHL and contributing, instead of sitting in the minors and putting up solid but unspectacular numbers. Ottawa's roster is the 3rd youngest in the league already, and all of their core players are in their 20s; why would they want to inject more youth in the lineup?

The point Ottawa is at literally where Detroit wants to be in 1/2/3 years. The point where their draft picks are actually helping their team win, instead of being a perpetual mental crutch for their despairing fans. If your team's playoff hopes rest on promoting guys from the AHL/NCAA/Europe, your team is not ready to make the playoffs. Because that's not "help", it's just lack of depth.

That...wasn't the point at all. This thread is truly incredible at this point.
The point was that Ottawa traded away two firsts in '22 and '23 and drafted a bust in 2021. If they didn't do that, they could have 3 great prospects coming to make the team even better than they are, and take them into that contender level. Instead, they will have to hope they can get continued growth from the guys on the roster now to be the only thing that takes them to that next level, or a big free-agent signing. That's definitely possible, it's just not ideal.

I really don't even get the point of this thread anymore. It feels like it's been going in circles for 30+ pages. We clearly don't feel our rebuild is totally doomed and are excited about our prospects, and we need Yzerman to be better in pro scouting (UFA and trades) to supplement these prospects that we are excited about. We think there is still lots of hope with the rebuild if Yzerman can make the kinds of moves he did in Tampa Bay in UFA/trades when he felt the core was coming together. We get it - you all disagree and think all our prospects suck and won't be any good, and the team is screwed and will need to rebuild.

Wtf are we even discussing in here anymore? Clearly you are never going to convince us Red wings fans that all our prospects are failures. We are the ones that watch them and we see some special players. It's been 152 pages of the same talking to a brick wall from both sides.

There is literally zero actual discussion going on in here. It's just random teams fans calling Red Wings fans delusional, us trying to respond, and being told we're delusional again. OK, that's fine, you guys think our opinions on our prospects are delusional.

Where does that go next? This thread should be closed down by mods at this point.

 

[Hockeyfan2390]

You realize that both Kasper and Raymond's stats sucked in the same respective years, in the same respective leagues, right?

So it's an automatic slam dunk that they're going to step into the NHL and immediately be impact players?

Remember when Filip Zadina and Evgeny Svechnikov were supposed to be the new hotness?

Yzerman cannot stake his entire stewardship of this franchise on a bunch of what-ifs.

 

[RedHawkDown]

Let it go. Holland hasn't been the general manager since 2019.

Holland didn't sign Justin Holl. Holland didn't sign the underwhelming JT Compher and Andrew Copp to 5 year deals for 2nd line forward money. Holland didn't acquire Jeff Petry. Holland didn't dump Walman for literally nothing only to watch as another club acquired a 1st round pick in return for him months later. Holland didn't sign Tarasenko (though I don't think anyone expected him to be THIS bad.)

At some point, Yzerman needs to be held accountable for the moves that he's made. He's been the GM now since 2019. We're nearly midway through 2025. The "blame Ken Holland" card stopped being valid in 2023.

This is 100% Yzerman's team. The only two leftovers from Holland are Larkin and Rasmussen, and up until recently, Veleno. Yzerman didn't acquire them, but extended them all.

And he has been held accountable for these things. Holland left the team in a very bad place, and Yzerman has made horrific free agent signings and generally poor trades outside of the one Debrincat move. Both of these things can be true. Yet you all ignore the multiple Detroit posters saying this and keep parroting the same thing over and over, lol.

 

[Hockeyfan2390]

Compher, in terms of salary vs performance, was by far our worst player behind Holl (who is on another planet of uselessness).

It’s no coincidence a Holl mistake and a Compher missed open net lost us the most important game of the season.

It's very disappointing, considering Compher had a very decent (even good) first season with the Red Wings in 2024-25. His performance this year resembles the career trajectory of Frans Nielsen.

 

[RedHawkDown]

So it's an automatic slam dunk that they're going to step into the NHL and immediately be impact players?

Remember when Filip Zadina and Evgeny Svechnikov were supposed to be the new hotness?

Yzerman cannot stake his entire stewardship of this franchise on a bunch of what-ifs.

Who said it's a slam dunk?

We believe in those playrers because his first-round drafting so far has been very, very good and we hope it can continue being good.

Every team's prospects might end up being shit. If Hutson entered the league and turned out to be a Torey Krug instead of a Quinn Hughes like he's looking, suddenly Montreal's situation looks a lot worse. I don't get the obsession with pointing out that our prospects might fail. If your only point is "well it probably won't work", well ok, thats cool. Wtf is the discussion then? lol

 

[Hockeyfan2390]

Dotter getting destroyed in here , Rightfully so , some of the worst takes I've seen on the site

He appears to be one of the (thankfully shrinking) number of Detroit fans who can't bring themselves to criticize their childhood hero.

 

[Golden_Jet]

That...wasn't the point at all. This thread is truly incredible at this point.
The point was that Ottawa traded away two firsts in '22 and '23 and drafted a bust in 2021. If they didn't do that, they could have 3 great prospects coming to make the team even better than they are, and take them into that contender level. Instead, they will have to hope they can get continued growth from the guys on the roster now to be the only thing that takes them to that next level, or a big free-agent signing. That's definitely possible, it's just not ideal.

I really don't even get the point of this thread anymore. It feels like it's been going in circles for 30+ pages. We clearly don't feel that way and are excited about our prospects, and we need Yzerman to be better in pro scouting (UFA and trades) to supplement these prospects that we are excited about. We think there is still lots of hope with the rebuild if Yzerman can make the kinds of moves he did in Tampa Bay in UFA/trades when he felt the core was coming together. We get it - you all disagree and think all our prospects suck and won't be any good, and the team is screwed and will need to rebuild.

Wtf are we even discussing in here anymore? Clearly you are never going to convince us Red wings fans that all our prospects are failures. We are the ones that watch them and we see some special players. It's been 152 pages of the same talking to a brick wall from both sides.

There is literally zero actual discussion going on in here. It's just random teams fans calling Red Wings fans delusional, us trying to respond, and being told we're delusional again. OK, that's fine, you guys think our opinions on our prospects are delusional.

Where does that go next? This thread should be closed down by mods at this point.

Just hit the ignore thread option then, if it gets you all riled up.

 

[RedHawkDown]

Just hit the ignore thread option then, if it gets you all riled up.

I get that, I'm just unsure what the purpose is, genuinely. What is the point of this discussion?

 

[Hockeyfan2390]

Who said it's a slam dunk?

The posters here and on social media who are saying that "Yzerman is building a dynasty" with these picks. Hell, there was even someone who actually wrote with a straight face that Yzerman's free-agent signings weren't supposed to be good and are just warm bodies until the kids get here.

We believe in those playrers because his first-round drafting so far has been very, very good and we hope it can continue being good.

In other words, hopium.

If your only rebuttal is "well it probably won't work", well ok, thats cool. Wtf is the discussion then? lol

I want them to work out. I'm also not holding out hope considering the bevy of players who were supposed to be the next wave of Red Wings greatness that fizzled out into nothing.

 

[FriendlyGhost92]

Let it go. Holland hasn't been the general manager since 2019.

Holland didn't sign Justin Holl. Holland didn't sign the underwhelming JT Compher and Andrew Copp to 5 year deals for 2nd line forward money. Holland didn't acquire Jeff Petry. Holland didn't dump Walman for literally nothing only to watch as another club acquired a 1st round pick in return for him months later. Holland didn't sign Tarasenko (though I don't think anyone expected him to be THIS bad.)

At some point, Yzerman needs to be held accountable for the moves that he's made. He's been the GM now since 2019. We're nearly midway through 2025. The "blame Ken Holland" card stopped being valid in 2023.

This is 100% Yzerman's team. The only two leftovers from Holland are Larkin and Rasmussen, and up until recently, Veleno. Yzerman didn't acquire them, but extended them all.

"Let it go" is hilarious to hear from a guy who himself has 125+ posts in this thread lmao.

You're in here pissing and moaning about signings when the vast majority of Detroit fans will tell you the pro scouting has been abysmal.

 

[Pavels Dog]

The Sens have all their young core locked up for affordable long-term contracts, so the lack of good prospects isnt concerning. Florida, Tampa, and Vegas became top teams through good trades and free agent signings, not prospects. The core of Sanderson, Chabot, Zub, Stutzle, Tkachuk, Cozens, Batherson, Pinto aren't going anywhere for a long time. Ullmark has 4 years left on his deal. Why do they need prospect help? They'll replace Giroux, Perron, and Jensen with good free agent signings or veterans in trade in 1-3 years, depending how much each player has left.

It's never a bad thing to have to picks and prospects, whether you use them for internal growth or as trade capital.

Who's going to save Detroit?

More than likely it'll be a combination of many players.

 

[SympathyForTheDevils]

How in the world did you take that as a criticism that Ottawa has their young players up and contributing?

The criticism literally was that Ottawa either f***ed up or sold picks for three drafts straight and now don't have young players on the verge of contributing outside the NHL.

Yes, they sold picks for players that could actually help them win hockey games, instead of wallowing in the basement with the other losers. They used the picks to acquire Debrincat (which led to Ullmark) and Chychrun (who became Jensen). The picks they traded were used to draft Kevin Korchinski and Daniil But. I don't think Sens fans are losing sleep over that.

 

[Golden_Jet]

You're in here pissing and moaning about signings when the vast majority of Detroit fans will tell you the pro scouting has been abysmal.

lol, that’s no different than wings fans going on about Sens 21-23 first round draft moves.
When all Sens fans agree the previous GM screwed up,

So to sum it up, no difference than you’ve done for 128 pages lol. It’s a lot of pot meet kettle in here.

 

[Hockeyfan2390]

"Let it go" is hilarious to hear from a guy who himself has 125+ posts in this thread lmao.

It's a discussion forum. Must have missed a post limit. (And I have no idea how many posts I have in this thread, but if you actually took the time to look it up, that actually says a lot more about you than me. Oops.)

You're in here pissing and moaning about signings when the vast majority of Detroit fans will tell you the pro scouting has been abysmal.

Cool story. You're the one still blaming a guy who hasn't been employed since 2019 for the organization's current struggles.

 

[FriendlyGhost92]

Yes, they sold picks for players that could actually help them win hockey games, instead of wallowing in the basement with the other losers. They used the picks to acquire Debrincat (which led to Ullmark) and Chychrun (who became Jensen). The picks they traded were used to draft Kevin Korchinski and Daniil But. I don't think Sens fans are losing sleep over that.

Limiting the scope of who they could've had to two players because another team picked that player there is ignorant.

At #7 in 2022 they could've had Kasper, (Who they were rumored to favor) Mintyukov, Mateychuk, Nazar, etc. At #12 in 2023 they could've had Benson, ASP, Perreault, etc.

Effectively, they traded 7th, 12th, and three 2nd round picks for Ullmark, Jensen, a third, a 4th, and scrubs. That's a terrible exchange lol.

 

[Golden_Jet]

Effectively, they traded 7th, 12th, and three 2nd round picks for Ullmark, Jensen, a third, a 4th, and scrubs. That's a terrible exchange lol.

And now in the playoffs.

 

[FriendlyGhost92]

How’s that working out for the Sens now.

They're a Wild Card team that nobody expects to go far in the playoffs.

Wonder how those five draft picks would've worked out for them.

 

[zenator]

It's never a bad thing to have to picks and prospects, whether you use them for internal growth or as trade capital.

I agree, it would be better to have. I'm just saying it's not the end of the world not to have considering the young core is locked up long term.

They did trade mid prospects Ostapchuk, Kastelic, and JBD to acquire players. Draft picks are often traded too.

And I do think Detroit should be a playoff team in a year or 2. They have decent talent and young players. They mainly need to fix goaltending. They should get aggressive like Ottawa and Washington did. Merilainen and Lindgren didn't stop them from acquiring Ullmark and Thompsn. Toronto as well, having Woll didn't stop them from getting Stolarz.

 

[RedHawkDown]

The posters here and on social media who are saying that "Yzerman is building a dynasty" with these picks. Hell, there was even someone who actually wrote with a straight face that Yzerman's free-agent signings weren't supposed to be good and are just warm bodies until the kids get here.



In other words, hopium.


I want them to work out. I'm also not holding out hope considering the bevy of players who were supposed to be the next wave of Red Wings greatness that fizzled out into nothing.

Fans of every single team on social media are insufferable. You know that as well as I do, lol.
Dotter is the main guy in here saying that stuff, and you're choosing to ignore of the more reasonable posters that have said nothing of the sort. If you're going to base your opinion off the 1-2 people who are fervently pro-Yzerman, sure. By that token every single fanbase in here is unhinged because all fanbases have those guys, lol.

Sure, call it hopium. What the f*** else is a rebuild supposed to be based on? Your criticisms make zero sense. SJ is pure hopium based on praying that Musty, Dickinson, Smith, and this year's pick end up good and don't bust. CHI is pure hopium based on praying that Levshunov, this year's pick, others end up good and Bedard actually takes some steps forward. MTL is pure hopium based on praying that Demidov actually steps in and is a star, and not the second coming of Yakupov. CBJ is pure hopium praying that Lindstrom can get past his injury issues and Fantilli has a breakout at some point. ANA is hopium praying that Sennecke can be a good top 6 forward and Carlsson keeps up his good 2nd half of this season. This is true of literally every single rebuilding team, yet you're acting like we are somehow crazy for hoping our prospects end up good?

What are fans of a rebuild supposed to do other than believe in the prospects, especially when the prospects that have come up have in fact succeeded? Detroit suck ass right now, we know that. Yzerman has done terribly in free agency and trades, we know that. His drafting so far has been fantastic, and so we think that the prospects coming will also be good since the ones that have come up so far have been great. We hope he fixes the trading and UFA issues, so that we can have a good team again. Why in the world is that so crazy to believe? lol

 

[FriendlyGhost92]

I agree, it would be better to have. I'm just saying it's not the end of the world not to have considering the young core is locked up long term.

They did trade mid prospects Ostapchuk, Kastelic, and JBD to acquire players. Draft picks are often traded too.

And I do think Detroit should be a playoff team in a year or 2. They have decent talent and young players. They mainly need to fix goaltending. They should get aggressive like Ottawa and Washington did. Merilainen and Lindgren didn't stop them from acquiring Ullmark and Thompsn. Toronto as well, having Woll didn't stop them from getting Stolarz.

Detroit's problem is defense more than goaltending. Every single one gets the bad fortune of having Holl/Petry/Gustafsson/Chiarot in front of them for 40+ minutes a night.

(And yes, this is a major fault of Yzerman)

 

[RedHawkDown]

I agree, it would be better to have. I'm just saying it's not the end of the world not to have considering the young core is locked up long term.

They did trade mid prospects Ostapchuk, Kastelic, and JBD to acquire players. Draft picks are often traded too.

And I do think Detroit should be a playoff team in a year or 2. They have decent talent and young players. They mainly need to fix goaltending. They should get aggressive like Ottawa and Washington did. Merilainen and Lindgren didn't stop them from acquiring Ullmark and Thompsn. Toronto as well, having Woll didn't stop them from getting Stolarz.

See this is the kind of reasonable post I completely agree with. Ottawa could have done better with those picks but Staois came in and has done a great job with what he had and the team looks like they're in a solid spot. Detroit needs to fix a bunch of things and agree they have to be a lot more aggressive to do so.

It's jsut all these people telling us we're totally screwed because all the prospects will fail...like ok ? what even are you supposed to say in response to that?

 

[Golden_Jet]

Fans of every single team on social media are insufferable. You know that as well as I do, lol.
Dotter is the main guy in here saying that stuff, and you're choosing to ignore of the more reasonable posters that have said nothing of the sort. If you're going to base your opinion off the 1-2 people who are fervently pro-Yzerman, sure. By that token every single fanbase in here is unhinged because all fanbases have those guys, lol.

Sure, call it hopium. What the f*** else is a rebuild supposed to be based on? Your criticisms make zero f***ing sense. SJ is pure hopium based on praying that Musty, Dickinson, Smith, and this year's pick end up good and don't bust. CHI is pure hopium based on praying that Levshunov, this year's pick, others end up good and Bedard actually takes some steps forward. MTL is pure hopium based on praying that Demidov actually steps in and is a star, and not the second coming of Yakupov. CBJ is pure hopium praying that Lindstrom can get past his injury issues and Fantilli has a breakout at some point. ANA is hopium praying that Sennecke can be a good top 6 forward and Carlsson keeps up his good 2nd half of this season. This is true of literally every single rebuilding team, yet you're acting like we are somehow crazy for hoping our prospects end up good?

What the hell are fans of a rebuild supposed to do other than believe in the prospects, especially when the prospects that have come up have in fact succeeded? Detroit suck ass right now, we know that. Yzerman has done terribly in free agency and trades, we know that. His drafting so far has been fantastic, and so we think that the prospects coming will also be good since the ones that have come up so far have been great. We hope he fixes the trading and UFA issues, so that we can have a good team again. Why in the world is that so crazy to believe? lol

if wings fans see Dotter as the rest of the forums, they should call him out for it, in here then.

 

[Golden_Jet]

See this is the kind of reasonable post I completely agree with. Ottawa could have done better with those picks but Staois came in and has done a great job with what he had and the team looks like they're in a solid spot. Detroit needs to fix a bunch of things and agree they have to be a lot more aggressive to do so.

It's jsut all these people telling us we're totally screwed because all the prospects will fail...like ok ? what even are you supposed to say in response to that?

This is a solid post.

 

[RedHawkDown]

if wings fans see Dotter as the rest of the forums, they should call him out for it, in here then.

I just did that. I've done it earlier too. I called him and others out for saying Hutson is anything less than elite in the Habs vs Wings thread.

Would be nice if some posters could respond in-kind by being at least somewhat reasonable the other way around...instead of just constantly parroting that Detroit sucks and there are zero elite players and all the prospects suck and therefore everything must restart.

 

[DuncanMacpherson]

I get that, I'm just unsure what the purpose is, genuinely. What is the point of this discussion?

I think the point is to discuss where things went wrong in Detroit’s failed rebuild, determine if people need to be fired and what they should do to fix the team.