Detroit Redwings Downfall

[FreeToShareWithMeOk]

Lol. Anything that worked out in Yzerman's favor in Tampa was dumb luck and/or scouts bailing him out. Anything that didn't work out was "poor GMing". Got it!

So he didn't inherit Stamkos, Hedman, St. Louis, Killorn, stroll up to the draft table, and proudly announce "With Their First Round Pick, The Tampa Bay Lightning are Taking" Brett Connolly, Vladislav Namestnikov, Slater Koekkoek, Jonathan Drouin and Anthony DeAngelo as Tampa's first picks in their respective drafts? Good to know, guess I was mistaken.

Yep. And I read Walman's "version" of "his" story. Fun statistic: did you know everyone in jail is innocent? I mean, that's what the convict sitting in his jail cell will tell you.

I have some prime swampland in Florida to sell you! You seem like the perfect buyer for this rare opportunity...

What was Walman's "version" of "his" story? I'm sure you can point holes in it, like all the times he has been scratched since, right? You're not just talking out of your Yzerman now are you?

I'm good on the Florida swampland. Stevie Y seems to have sold you the whole Everglades and the Bermuda triangle to boot. Explains where he got the money to pay all the sludge

 

[deca guard]

His "good picks" were guys his scouting staff shoved down his throat after he Yzermanned all over the top picks Tampa made and who by some miracle were still there later in the draft. Again, he's the guy who values Namestnikov over Kucherov, Koekkoek over Vasilevsky and DeAngelo over Point. Now all of a sudden there's no Kucherov or Point for his scouting staff to gift him and you get a parade of prospects that don't look better than what their biggest competitors will be icing in the next 5+ years. For example, unless Ottawa falls apart from the inside like New York did, he doesn't have the players on the horizon to challenge their core.

I'm not even talking full on rebuilds like what San Jose or Montreal are doing. There's a number of organizations that have built better for the future while aiming to contend over the last 6 years.

and the organization yzerman built of coaches , developmental staff , brass and players he drafted didnt have a thing to do with how good hedman and stamkos doing good ? and as if hedman n stamkos were the only reason tbay did good ? and he didnt win the st loyuis trade and others ? and theres all kinds of gms that drafted better ? you could analyze every gm in nhl and make them look bad because there isnt one nhl gm in history that made all the right calls because the job is totally impossible to be perfect at . and the bottom line is yzerman steered that tbay ship right to glory , helped team canada too , and rock solid ground but the cry babys gotta piss n moan

 

[AlwaysSunnyInDetroit]

His "good picks" were guys his scouting staff shoved down his throat after he Yzermanned all over the top picks Tampa made and who by some miracle were still there later in the draft. Again, he's the guy who values Namestnikov over Kucherov, Koekkoek over Vasilevsky and DeAngelo over Point. Now all of a sudden there's no Kucherov or Point for his scouting staff to gift him and you get a parade of prospects that don't look better than what their biggest competitors will be icing in the next 5+ years. For example, unless Ottawa falls apart from the inside like New York did, he doesn't have the players on the horizon to challenge their core.

I'm not even talking full on rebuilds like what San Jose or Montreal are doing. There's a number of organizations that have built better for the future while aiming to contend over the last 6 years.

lol in 3 years seider edvinsson asp will be the best defensive group in the nhl. cossa is currently the best goalie in the world outside of the nhl. augustine is top 5. danielson is going to be a perennial selke candidate. raymond is becoming a superstar before our eyes. buchelnikov has broken out and could play on any first line in the nhl as early as next year. your team is going to hate playing against mazur - kasper - brandsegg-nygard. soderblom is a 6'8" nightmare. cleveland is going to cut more than a few careers short. finnie looks like a steal. lombardi looks like a steal. we are going to have more nhl players coming out of our system than we will have roster spots for, which means that yzerman has the assets to steal your favorite player. wallinder, buium, johansson, johansson, plante, becher, ndn, kiiskinen, tuomisto. add a top 5 pick from this year to that group and free agents are going to be lining up to come here.

 

[Grifter3511]

lol in 3 years seider edvinsson asp will be the best defensive group in the nhl. cossa is currently the best goalie in the world outside of the nhl. augustine is top 5. danielson is going to be a perennial selke candidate. raymond is becoming a superstar before our eyes. buchelnikov has broken out and could play on any first line in the nhl as early as next year. your team is going to hate playing against mazur - kasper - brandsegg-nygard. soderblom is a 6'8" nightmare. cleveland is going to cut more than a few careers short. finnie looks like a steal. lombardi looks like a steal. we are going to have more nhl players coming out of our system than we will have roster spots for, which means that yzerman has the assets to steal your favorite player. wallinder, buium, johansson, johansson, plante, becher, ndn, kiiskinen, tuomisto. add a top 5 pick from this year to that group and free agents are going to be lining up to come here.

Ah yes. Hockey futures. Where everything that we think should happen inevitably does.

 

[12ozPapa]

and the organization yzerman built of coaches , developmental staff , brass and players he drafted didnt have a thing to do with how good hedman and stamkos doing good ? and as if hedman n stamkos were the only reason tbay did good ? and he didnt win the st loyuis trade and others ? and theres all kinds of gms that drafted better ? you could analyze every gm in nhl and make them look bad because there isnt one nhl gm in history that made all the right calls because the job is totally impossible to be perfect at . and the bottom line is yzerman steered that tbay ship right to glory , helped team canada too , and rock solid ground but the cry babys gotta piss n moan

lol in 3 years seider edvinsson asp will be the best defensive group in the nhl. cossa is currently the best goalie in the world outside of the nhl. augustine is top 5. danielson is going to be a perennial selke candidate. raymond is becoming a superstar before our eyes. buchelnikov has broken out and could play on any first line in the nhl as early as next year. your team is going to hate playing against mazur - kasper - brandsegg-nygard. soderblom is a 6'8" nightmare. cleveland is going to cut more than a few careers short. finnie looks like a steal. lombardi looks like a steal. we are going to have more nhl players coming out of our system than we will have roster spots for, which means that yzerman has the assets to steal your favorite player. wallinder, buium, johansson, johansson, plante, becher, ndn, kiiskinen, tuomisto. add a top 5 pick from this year to that group and free agents are going to be lining up to come here.

Be less obvious

 

[Nogatco Rd]

soderblom is a 6'8" nightmare.

Where do you think he’ll slot into the lineup? what do you see as his ceiling, statistically speaking?

 

[MarkusNaslund19]

Interesting point. Why didn't Steve Yzerman sign FA Dylan Strome after their whopping 74 point season vs Capitals who were coming off a 100 point season signed him?

That's a good question. Do we know for sure Yzerman didn't pitch an offer? I get it though, why would Strome want to go play for a crap team like Capitals!?! Clearly he must be an idiot.

"or other examples like that" - Another brilliant observation!

You're clearly busy gagging on Yzerman and won't have a real conversation.

My point is, the Wings fans who throw up their hands and say, 'what else could he do?' There are other things he could do.

My team had a horrible GM for almost a decade (who still drafted Boeser, Demko, Hughes, and Petey and traded for MIller, so more impressive than Yzerman in that way but still).

And when he left, we saw a massive glow-up. Our GM wanted Hronek and so he traded Horvat and used assets included to get a D who helped create one of the best pairings in the league (no shade at ASP, but our GM wanted something and went and made it happen). He got Joshua and Sherwood for peanuts by out scouting other teams.

He signed Lankinen (how's Husso working out btw?).

That's just one example.

So why didn't Yzerman spot a Strome before someone else, could have been Strome himself, or could have been another player primed for a breakout who was undervalued?

The reason, is because he's an average GM and not some super genius.

I don't blame you for probably having a poster of Yzerman over your bed, but you have to learn your heroes are just people too.

 

[Dotter]

You're clearly busy gagging on Yzerman and won't have a real conversation.

Classy.

lol in 3 years seider edvinsson asp will be the best defensive group in the nhl. cossa is currently the best goalie in the world outside of the nhl. augustine is top 5. danielson is going to be a perennial selke candidate. raymond is becoming a superstar before our eyes. buchelnikov has broken out and could play on any first line in the nhl as early as next year. your team is going to hate playing against mazur - kasper - brandsegg-nygard. soderblom is a 6'8" nightmare. cleveland is going to cut more than a few careers short. finnie looks like a steal. lombardi looks like a steal. we are going to have more nhl players coming out of our system than we will have roster spots for, which means that yzerman has the assets to steal your favorite player. wallinder, buium, johansson, johansson, plante, becher, ndn, kiiskinen, tuomisto. add a top 5 pick from this year to that group and free agents are going to be lining up to come here.

C'mon man.

He signed Lankinen (how's Husso working out btw?).

That's just one example.

So why didn't Yzerman spot a Strome before someone else, could have been Strome himself, or could have been another player primed for a breakout who was undervalued?

The reason, is because he's an average GM and not some super genius.

I don't blame you for probably having a poster of Yzerman over your bed, but you have to learn your heroes are just people too.

Comparing Lankinen to Husso contract situations is odd, disingenuous and weird. Your examples have no merit.

Why didn't Yzerman spot Strome? -
1. Why didn't 32 other teams 'spot' him?
2. How do we know Yzerman didn't spot him and offer a contract?

Your opinion is assumption based with no facts.

 

[NVious]

lol in 3 years seider edvinsson asp will be the best defensive group in the nhl. cossa is currently the best goalie in the world outside of the nhl. augustine is top 5. danielson is going to be a perennial selke candidate. raymond is becoming a superstar before our eyes. buchelnikov has broken out and could play on any first line in the nhl as early as next year. your team is going to hate playing against mazur - kasper - brandsegg-nygard. soderblom is a 6'8" nightmare. cleveland is going to cut more than a few careers short. finnie looks like a steal. lombardi looks like a steal. we are going to have more nhl players coming out of our system than we will have roster spots for, which means that yzerman has the assets to steal your favorite player. wallinder, buium, johansson, johansson, plante, becher, ndn, kiiskinen, tuomisto. add a top 5 pick from this year to that group and free agents are going to be lining up to come here.

The real question is how will the NHL stop Detroit from being the first 10peat in pro sports? At this point it's just unfair and boring.

 

[Roland of Gilead]

Every dynasty ends and Red Wings had theirs. No need to be sorry for them, they got their Stanley Cups. When did Toronto won their last Cup?

 

[Dr Quincy]

2. How do we know Yzerman didn't spot him and offer a contract?

Because as everyone, other than jealous haters, knows, he's a supergenius who created one dynasty and is ahead of schedule on creating the next dynasty. Of course reclamation projects like Strome would sign with him if offered a contract. That's how he got Copp, Chiarot and Holl to take discounts... they have faith in the Yzerplan.

 

[Master P]

Not sure if this has been posted but wtf?

Not even an hour?

 

[Dotter]

Because as everyone, other than jealous haters, knows, he's a supergenius who created one dynasty and is ahead of schedule on creating the next dynasty. Of course reclamation projects like Strome would sign with him if offered a contract. That's how he got Copp, Chiarot and Holl to take discounts... they have faith in the Yzerplan.

What's the point of this post? It offers no substance and is hyperbolic at best.

You could have just said Yzerman overpaid for UFA plugs to fill out a roster. It's not like Detroit is a desirable place to play at the time of signing, and there were no internal prospect to fill those roles at the time either.

Is it not true an NHL hockey club must fill out the roster prior to the season? Do you honestly think UFAs are lining up to play for a rebuilding team boasting the worst points percentage in modern NHL history?

Basic common sense is a virtue not everyone is gifted with, apparently.

 

[WarriorofTime]

You could have just said Yzerman overpaid for UFA plugs to fill out a roster. It's not like Detroit is a desirable place to play right now, and there were no internal prospect to fill those roles at the time of signing.

Yeah that's where the criticism comes. He's in his sixth season as GM, he's had six drafts, six free agent periods, five trade deadlines to improve the roster and yet here he is, New Years's Eve 2024 with a team that is bottom 5 in the standings and there's a bunch of cap space being spent on fairly useless plugs. You yourself were commending the steady rise of progress up the standings all up through the early portion of this season, and using that as evidence of the good work being performed. Now we're in year 6 of a GM's tenure and it's being rationalized as a Tank Season. You're only in a tank season in year 6 if there were mistakes and missed opportunities in Year 1-5. Yet you and apparently Yzerman throw your hands up and say "nothing could have been done!" and apparently are still focused on decisions made by Ken Holland eight years ago or so, along with rationalizations that range from nobody good has been drafted outside of the 1st round, nobody good has changed teams, there were no other opportunities to trade up, maximize value or improve the Red Wings from the time Yzerman took over until now.

 

[not a troll]

Not sure if this has been posted but wtf?

Not even an hour?

Wow even in practice they look slow.

 

[Dr Quincy]

Yeah that's where the criticism comes. He's in his sixth season as GM, he's had six drafts, six free agent periods, five trade deadlines to improve the roster and yet here he is, New Years's Eve 2024 with a team that is bottom 5 in the standings and there's a bunch of cap space being spent on fairly useless plugs. You yourself were commending the steady rise of progress up the standings all up through the early portion of this season, and using that as evidence of the good work being performed. Now we're in year 6 of a GM's tenure and it's being rationalized as a Tank Season. You're only in a tank season in year 6 if there were mistakes and missed opportunities in Year 1-5. Yet you and apparently Yzerman throw your hands up and say "nothing could have been done!" and apparently are still focused on decisions made by Ken Holland eight years ago or so, along with rationalizations that range from nobody good has been drafted outside of the 1st round, nobody good has changed teams, there were no other opportunities to trade up, maximize value or improve the Red Wings from the time Yzerman took over until now.

Exactly.

OTOH we are told that Yzerman is a super genius and only jealous haters can't see the powerhouse he's building.

But then we are told that no actually good NHL UFAs believe in the plan and want to sign there.

Those seem at odds with each other.

 

[FreeToShareWithMeOk]

Here's the neat thing about Dylan Strome.

He was an RFA in 2022 before Chicago decided not to qualify him so they could tank for Bedard better.

Any team, including Detroit and Winnipeg, could have had him on their team.

How?

Its this little thing called GMing

You pick up the phone

Trade a pick for a player whose rights the team doesn't want to retain. In Strome's case something like a 7th in 2027 since he's leaving anyway and you're in a different conference so Chicago probably prefers he goes to you instead of potentially a division rival.

And, magically, you have that player, without having to compete for him in the UFA market.

The Habs did it the very same year with a player from the same team as Strome

But maybe Yzerman snuffed out that Strome was main part of the Strome-Walman bad guy bad locker room guy bad conspiracy and was simply ahead of the game

 

[DavidpauseReinbacher]

Stop deleting my post Fatty.

 

[Dotter]

Yeah that's where the criticism comes. He's in his sixth season as GM, he's had six drafts, six free agent periods, five trade deadlines to improve the roster and yet here he is, New Years's Eve 2024 with a team that is bottom 5 in the standings and there's a bunch of cap space being spent on fairly useless plugs. You yourself were commending the steady rise of progress up the standings all up through the early portion of this season, and using that as evidence of the good work being performed. Now we're in year 6 of a GM's tenure and it's being rationalized as a Tank Season. You're only in a tank season in year 6 if there were mistakes and missed opportunities in Year 1-5. Yet you and apparently Yzerman throw your hands up and say "nothing could have been done!" and apparently are still focused on decisions made by Ken Holland eight years ago or so, along with rationalizations that range from nobody good has been drafted outside of the 1st round, nobody good has changed teams, there were no other opportunities to trade up, maximize value or improve the Red Wings from the time Yzerman took over until now.

Nobody expected Laldone to be so bad at coaching. It's nice to see a coaching change can show the jam this team really has. It's like watching a different team!

Finally a fun product to watch now.

That being said, I like the idea of adding a James Hagens. I wouldn't be mad sucking to add him either.

 

[nbwingsfan]

He came to Tampa inheriting Stamkos, Hedman, St. Louis and Killorn, and proceeded to draft Brett Connolly over Tarasenko and a ton of other good players, Vladislav Namestnikov over Kucherov, Slater Koekkoek over Forsberg, Vasilevsky and a ton of other good players, Anthony DeAngelo over Brayden Point. The fact that he was able to pick up Kucherov, Vasilevsky and Point because other teams passed on them as well isn't so much a point in his favor as an indictment of other teams. Now he's doing the same exact thing as in Tampa, except he's just drafting the Koekkoeks and Connollys and not getting bailed out by his scouting staff in the later rounds.



He could have easily signed good vets or traded for them for pennies on the dollar as many capably managed teams had in that time. Since Yzerman became GM you had Stephenson, Nichushkin, Tage Thompson, Verhaeghe, Forsling, Reinhart, Montour, Bjorkstrand, Bennett, Dylan Strome, Barbashev, Toews, Zub, Weegar, Middleton, Dubois, Walman, etc., etc. be cheaply acquired or cheaply available. Yzerman just went for sludge


Dylan Strome was available to anyone 2 years ago lol.


Dylan Strome was available to anyone 2 years ago. Yzerman traded away the Wyatt Johnston pick that he got from his one robbery that was the Mantha deal, adding to it so he could draft Cossa. That about sums up his drafting.

If you followed the Walman trade as intensively as you claim you would actually know the reason he was "healthied" in SJ and would know that it doesn't help your point at all.


Holland left Yzerman with a plethora of picks including a top 10 pick and a ton of cap space as well. Not Hollands fault Yzerman decided what his rebuild really needed was setting up for life 3 versions of Andrew Copp and 4 version of Justin Holl. And he was lucky as hell that he had a one of a kind coach in Jon Cooper to promote in Tampa because his default setting is Guy Boucher/Derek Lalonde/Todd McLellan

So just so I have this right…

Every bad player drafted was because of Yzerman, but every good pick was the scouts, right?

What does this mean for Yzerman taking Seider at 6 when he was ranked in the teens?

Raymond at 4 when there was like four-five players to choose from at that spot?

Edvinsson?

ASP in the teens? Cossa?

What does it mean all knowing one?

 

[Golden_Jet]

So just so I have this right…

Every bad player drafted was because of Yzerman, but every good pick was the scouts, right?

What does this mean for Yzerman taking Seider at 6 when he was ranked in the teens?

Raymond at 4 when there was like four-five players to choose from at that spot?

Edvinsson?

ASP in the teens? Cossa?

What does it mean all knowing one?

GM’s have input in top 10 in first round, after that it’s mostly scouts I’d say.