Detroit Redwings Downfall

[Dotter]

2019 Entry
Draft	Num.	Round	Player	Pos	Drafted From	GP	G	A	Pts	PIM
2019 Entry	35	2	Antti Tuomisto	D	Assat [Finland Jrs.]
2019 Entry	54	2	Robert Mastrosimone	L	Chicago Steel [USHL]
2019 Entry	60	2	Albert Johansson	D	Farjestads [Sweden Jrs.]	16	0	1	1	2
2019 Entry	66	3	Albin Grewe	L	Djurgardens [Sweden Jrs.]
2019 Entry	97	4	Ethan Phillips	C	Sioux Falls Stampede [USHL]
2019 Entry	128	5	Cooper Moore	D	Brunswick Prep [Conn. H.S.]
2019 Entry	159	6	Elmer Soderblom	L	Frolunda [Sweden Jrs.]	21	5	3	8	8
2019 Entry	177	6	Gustav Berglund	D	Frolunda [Sweden Jrs.]
2019 Entry	190	7	Kirill Tyutyayev	L	Yekaterinburg [Russia Jrs.]
2019 Entry	191	7	Carter Gylander	G	Sherwood Park Crusaders [AJHL]

2020 Entry
Draft	Num.	Round	Player	Pos	Drafted From	GP	G	A	Pts	PIM
2020 Entry	32	2	William Wallinder	D	MODO Hockey Ornskoldsvik [Swe-1]
2020 Entry	51	2	Theodor Niederbach	C	Frolunda Jrs. (Sweden)
2020 Entry	55	2	Cross Hanas	L	Portland Winterhawks [WHL]
2020 Entry	63	3	Donovan Sebrango	D	Kitchener Rangers [OHL]
2020 Entry	70	3	Eemil Viro	D	TPS Turku [SM-liiga]
2020 Entry	97	4	Sam Stange	R	Sioux Falls Stampede [USHL]
2020 Entry	107	4	Jan Bednar	G	Karlovy Vary HC [Czech]
2020 Entry	132	5	Alex Cotton	D	Lethbridge Hurricanes [WHL]
2020 Entry	156	6	Kyle Aucoin	D	Tri-City Storm [USHL]
2020 Entry	187	7	Kienan Draper	R	St. Andrews College (Ontario H.S.)
2020 Entry	203	7	Chase Bradley	L	Omaha Lancers [USHL]	2	0	0	0	0

Just atrocious drafting outside of their high picks in those two drafts. All those excess picks from the 2019 and 2020 draft with diddly squat to show for it.

Look around the league and you'll nobody drafted good in 2019 and 2020 based on your standards. They were weak drafts. Thankfully Yzerman OWNED IT in the 1st round. That's all you can ask for when no significant talent came out of those drafts.

Also, 2019 was the year Yzerman became GM. He was at an unfair advantage as he was unemployed up to the draft. Tho he did do his due diligence on Seider. That was a homerun pick.

 

[GhostfaceWu]

The biggest mistake has been not getting an adequate 2nd line center. Can't have copp as that when he's a decent third line center at best

 

[BB88]

Maybe Wings bottom out and draft top 3 this upcoming draft and get their franchise player. Would that solve your questions?

I'm personally not worried about it, but I would like to see Yzerman add some more franchise top tier talent. Better to have too many than not enough!

Well honestly what’s exciting in that rebuild?

It’s year 6 and they are still stuck in the same place& we are somehow supposed to buy into the magic of their rebuild

 

[WarriorofTime]

Look around the league and you'll nobody drafted good in 2019 and 2020 based on your standards. They were weak drafts. Thankfully Yzerman OWNED IT in the 1st round. That's all you can ask for when no significant talent came out of those drafts.

From 2019 Draft

32 players have played at least 100 games
39 players have played at least 80 games
44 players have played at least 60 games
54 players have played at least 40 games
60 players have played at least 25 games

From 2020 Draft

28 players have played at least 100 games
30 players have played at least 80 games
33 players have played at least 60 games
39 players have played at least 40 games
43 players have played at least 25 games

 

[Dotter]

From 2019 Draft

32 players have played at least 100 games
39 players have played at least 80 games
44 players have played at least 60 games
54 players have played at least 40 games
60 players have played at least 25 games

From 2020 Draft

28 players have played at least 100 games
30 players have played at least 80 games
33 players have played at least 60 games
39 players have played at least 40 games
43 players have played at least 25 games

Weak.

Only 7 have a .5 PPG or better and all but one of those were drafted outside the 1st round.

Try again.

 

[WarriorofTime]

Weak.

Only 7 have a .5 PPG or better and all but one of those were drafted outside the 1st round.

Try again.

I don't need to "try again". I already refuted you.

 

[Dotter]

I don't need to "try again". I already refuted you.

And failed.

 

[WarriorofTime]

And failed.

No, you just repeatedly move the goal posts throughout the thread as a way to deal with your cognitive dissonance about Yzerman's performance as Red Wings GM.

 

[nbwingsfan]

Those 4 teams have dominated the Atlantic the last 10 years& have Detroits number

But keep living in your fantasy land and watch Detroit go nowhere. Better for the rest of the teams, atleast 1 team you don’t have to take seriously

It was a simple question that you couldn’t answer, so clearly your point doesn’t stand.

You simply don’t need a top 10 forward in the NHL to be a good team.

 

[nbwingsfan]

I don't need to "try again". I already refuted you.

You didn’t refute anything.

One single player from those drafts out of the 1st round is any kind of decent or would make any kind of impact on where the Wings are today.

As of now, it’s bad drafts for everyone

In the 1st round, Yzerman got the best player available to him in the draft.

 

[SirloinUB]

From 2019 Draft

32 players have played at least 100 games
39 players have played at least 80 games
44 players have played at least 60 games
54 players have played at least 40 games
60 players have played at least 25 games

From 2020 Draft

28 players have played at least 100 games
30 players have played at least 80 games
33 players have played at least 60 games
39 players have played at least 40 games
43 players have played at least 25 games

It is important to understand different prospects in different organizations get opportunities at different times because those organizations have different philosophies.

With that said, you point out 27% of draft picks have played 25 games from that 2019 draft

Similarly, yzerman, has had 27% of his picks from that very same class have played games.


You point out 19% of pucks from 2020 have played 25 games. Yzerman is at 16% of played games.

So from a quantity perspective yzerman is about league average while hitting his 1st rounders out of the par despite only having poor lottery luck.

Thanks for “refuting” that yzerman is a bad GM.

 

[SympathyForTheDevils]

I tried mentioning this to several posters acting like the entire fanbase is saying these things when it's really 1-3 posters they're arguing with. But I think being able to think our entire fanbase is delusional based off one post someone reads is just too fun of an opportunity to pass up for many in this thread

You're right. Most Wings fans are reasonable, or at least optimistic in a way that's understandable. It's just really two particular posters whose Yzermania is so advanced it should probably be studied in a clinical setting, and they make the fanbase look dumber than it is.

It's probably why this thread has gone on so long. There's plenty of other teams stuck in the basement like the Wings, but nobody's out here arguing Pat Verbeek and Kyle Davidson are faultless geniuses.

 

[SympathyForTheDevils]

You didn’t refute anything.

One single player from those drafts out of the 1st round is any kind of decent or would make any kind of impact on where the Wings are today.

That's just plainly not true. I can count a dozen players from those two drafts outside the 1st round who are already solid, established NHLers, mostly on better teams than the Wings.

 

[BB88]

It was a simple question that you couldn’t answer, so clearly your point doesn’t stand.

You simply don’t need a top 10 forward in the NHL to be a good team.

So you’re trying to build a good team not a contender got it

You see my point has constantly been the goal of a rebuild should be building a contender..

Barkov- Tkachuk/Reinhart
Point- Kucherov/Stamkos
Ovy- Kuz
Crosby- Malkin
Eichel- Stone
Toews- Kane
Etc

You want to try again how you don’t need a franchise forward?

Or how all the best teams in the Atlantic have had multiple franchise forwards on their roster. But again nope you don’t need a franchise forward

& yes for example a major reason for Carolina falling short has been due to lacking that offensive game breaker

Detroit fans and their fantasy lands

 

[RedHawkDown]

So you’re trying to build a good team not a contender got it

You see my point has constantly been the goal of a rebuild should be building a contender..

Barkov- Tkachuk/Reinhart
Point- Kucherov/Stamkos
Ovy- Kuz
Crosby- Malkin
Eichel- Stone
Toews- Kane
Etc

You want to try again how you don’t need a franchise forward?

Or how all the best teams in the Atlantic have had multiple franchise forwards on their roster. But again nope you don’t need a franchise forward

& yes for example a major reason for Carolina falling short has been due to lacking that offensive game breaker

Detroit fans and their fantasy lands

Kuznetsov? Toews? Stone? Raymond has out scored stones career high already and the other two aren’t exactly juggernauts

It’s easier to win with a franchise forward but it’s not mandatory, as Vegas and St. Louis have shown

The wings didn’t have the draft luck to draft one so they’ll have to try to build without it. Tf else is the point of this thread? We just shitting on Detroit because they dropped from 1st to 4th in 2020 and never moved up in the lottery?

 

[nbwingsfan]

So you’re trying to build a good team not a contender got it

You see my point has constantly been the goal of a rebuild should be building a contender..

Barkov- Tkachuk/Reinhart
Point- Kucherov/Stamkos
Ovy- Kuz
Crosby- Malkin
Eichel- Stone
Toews- Kane
Etc

You want to try again how you don’t need a franchise forward?

Or how all the best teams in the Atlantic have had multiple franchise forwards on their roster. But again nope you don’t need a franchise forward

& yes for example a major reason for Carolina falling short has been due to lacking that offensive game breaker

Detroit fans and their fantasy lands

So I’ll ask for the third time now. Should all the teams I had listed tear it down and rebuild since they’re missing two franchise forwards?

On that same note, should Boston tear it down since they only have Pastrnak? It’s clearly hopeless for them, right?

Also hilarious thinking Raymond and Larkin aren’t on the level of Kuznetsov

 

[WarriorofTime]

You didn’t refute anything.

No, just saying "bad drafts" is a copout. There are young players all over the League developing. Players that can establish themselves into NHL roles at this point still have a chance to be impact players, and certainly can and are depth players. The key to these later picks is you have to hit a few homeruns, get the later guys that should have been 1st rounders. Alexei Protas went in the 3rd round, he has 14 goals this season. These are the picks you need in a rebuild. This is what Yzerman did well in Tampa and that hasn't translated to Detroit.

 

[nbwingsfan]

No, just saying "bad drafts" is a copout. There are young players all over the League developing. Players that can establish themselves into NHL roles at this point still have a chance to be impact players, and certainly can and are depth players. The key to these later picks is you have to hit a few homeruns, get the later guys that should have been 1st rounders. Alexei Protas went in the 3rd round, he has 14 goals this season. These are the picks you need in a rebuild. This is what Yzerman did well in Tampa and that hasn't translated to Detroit.

Yes there Protoss. The one player.

Now please name the other players from the 2019 and 2020 draft who would be making an impact to bring the Wings back into the playoffs.

I’ll wait.

That's just plainly not true. I can count a dozen players from those two drafts outside the 1st round who are already solid, established NHLers, mostly on better teams than the Wings.

Please do share the “dozen” impact players from the 2019/2020 drafts that would be making a meaningful impact on the Wings.

I see Protas (arguably) and….. ???

30pt guys and bottom pairing D are what we already have.

 

[WarriorofTime]

Yes there Protoss. The one player.

Now please name the other players from the 2019 and 2020 draft who would be making an impact to bring the Wings back into the playoffs.

I’ll wait.

By that logic, Seider and Raymond are not notable picks because they did not "bring the Wings back into the playoffs" throughout their career to date. That doesn't make much sense.

 

[RedHawkDown]

By that logic, Seider and Raymond are not notable picks because they did not "bring the Wings back into the playoffs" throughout their career to date. That doesn't make much sense.

That’s not the logic and you know it lol. There are few significant impact players beyond the 1st or 2nd round from those drafts and you know that. Protas is one of the only ones. Faber, Peterka are others. I agree later round drafting could have been better, but considering the 1st round drafting has been as good as we could hope for, I wouldn’t say drafting is the issue.

Pro scouting is.

 

[WarriorofTime]

That’s not the logic and you know it lol. There are few significant impact players beyond the 1st round from those drafts and you know that. Protas is one of the only ones.

What is the logic? That every young guy in the NHL not picked by the Wings is terrible and will always be terrible? That the post-1st round picks didn't actually leave anything to be desired? Because that's insane. In the 2019 2nd round, there are eight players that haven't played at all in the NHL. Two of them were picked by the Wings. The third Wings pick, has played 16 NHL games, which is fewer than 18 other 2nd round picks from the same draft. So to recap, three 2nd rounders, the best performer has played the 19th most NHL games of any 2nd rounder, the other two have played zero games. The takeaway is "well I guess the draft just sucked because if good players were there, Yzerman would have picked them", or are you willing to give any inch here?

 

[nbwingsfan]

By that logic, Seider and Raymond are not notable picks because they did not "bring the Wings back into the playoffs" throughout their career to date. That doesn't make much sense.

Either you’re purposely trolling or just that dense.

Who are actual impact players and not 30-40pt guys or bottom pairing D which we already have all throughout the roster ?

Once again, I’ll wait for your list.

 

[WarriorofTime]

Either you’re purposely trolling or just that dense.

Who are actual impact players and not 30-40pt guys or bottom pairing D which we already have all throughout the roster ?

Once again, I’ll wait for your list.

Not playing your game man, so you can say "no that guy is not good" as we try and debate the present and future of every 22/23 year old in the NHL...

you can look through the list yourself and determine where you think the Wings draft picks in later rounds rank amongst other players in the draft at the present moment, if your determination is the picks were good to above average, I disagree with your assessment

 

[saska sault]

Like a crack head checking the ash trays at the local mall for anything for free, I find myself here daily to read the takes of non-Wing's fans.

 

[Jack Spider]

Montreal had their strongest start of the year against Detroit on Friday. 9 shots. 3 one timers at the start in like 2-3 minutes. 1 goal.