Detroit Redwings Downfall

[Washed Up 29YearOld]

As a long suffering Sabres fan I hope you turn your fortunes around Red Wings fans and finally make the playoffs again soon. ( not at expense of Buffalo, of course )

 

[cvaicunas]

So now this is getting bumped after a come-from behind win?

What the hell.

May as well buckle up. This thread as legs that might make it to next season.

 

[deca guard]

and if yzerman would have spent more future cap on better ufa the team would have gotten into playoffs past few years to do nothing . lessening his draft spot and future cap space , all at the cost of future success . but many fans are too dense to figure that out and choose to get their kicks by yzer'bashing . too dense to figure out that more expensive ufa signings would have created a problem when signing sides n rayz . also too dense to realize yzerman obviously proved he knew what he was doing in tbay during a dynasty run via drafting n trading , the only thing slowed tbay down was the cap caused them to lose important depth players . how fans can sit here ignoring what yzer did in tbay then the 1st round draft pix he keeps rocking in detroit and bash him is ridiculous . not to mention the absolute all time shambles detroits depth chart was in when he took over , people prove their stupidity by not realizing a depth chart that gone takes minimum 6 or 7 years to rebuild because the hockey talent pool on earth isnt very deep as theres fewer athletes earth wide playing this cold weather sport ! mean while people can play baseball , football , bball world wide near 12 month out of year so theres more good players to draft in other sports so rebuilds happen quicker . mean while guys like asp/cossa/buchnelnikov/finnie/lombardi/augustine are doing great but of course the bashers dont reconize that

 

[WarriorofTime]

Hyperbolic posts like this is why this thread stays at the top of HF main boards.

Hyperbolic posts like yours mostly.

Red Wings have arguably the best prospect pool in the entire NHL. That's because of SFY and his outstanding work building that awesome prospect pool. Wings have at least 14 more young players foaming at the bit to get on the team to help the Wings become a powerhouse again. Yzerman is developing them the right way. Once he unleashes them, watch out! They are coming like a hungry pack of lions that smell blood.

Wings are on their way up. They are going to continue to get better each and every season. They are learning to win big games and that will carry over to the playoffs. Building a winning culture is phase 2 since they already have the most robust prospect pool in the entire NHL.

Keep underestimating Yzerman. Your tears are going to taste soooo good and sweet!

You do realize Yzerman got the GM job with the DRWs literally weeks before the 2019 draft? I doubt you do. Because your comment suggests you don't have a freaking clue.

How does one rebuild an entire scouting staff from bottom up in like 10 days? Lol


Yzerman was stuck using Ken Holland's failed hockey staff. The only guy Yzerman kept was Hakan Andersson, who was the guy responsible for finding Lidstrom, Fedorov, Zetterberg, Datsyuk among others. His NA scouting staff was trash.

Despite all that, SFY selected arguably the top 2, if not the best player of the 2019 draft with his 6th selection. That is the perfect example of how incredible Yzerman is. Yzerman is building a powerhouse. Soon people like you who are clueless with find out.

Bask in the fact Detroit is still rebuilding and didn't make the playoffs. Soon your smugness will smack you right in the face.... and you'll get a big taste of humble pie. Yum.Yum!

Back in 2017, I estimated they should be in by 2027. That was before Yzerman took over or before they drafted Seider/Raymond/Edvinsson/Cossa/Kasper/ASP/Danielson/Mazur/Lombardi/Buchelnikov/Augustine and whoever else they have in the system that looks pretty darn good.

Yzerman is letting his kids marinate and learn their craft. So I expect a slow, yet deliberate rebuild. He's building another powerhouse franchise to go on another 20+ year run. You don't do that in 5-6 years.

I would grade his rebuild to date a B-, not an A+ because of a few subpar FA signings. And because he didn't have the foresight to maximize Walman's trade value.

I would not be surprised if they make the playoffs this season. But I won't be mad if they miss, either -- playoffs are not make or break for Yzerman's future in Detroit, but is for Ladonde. I think a better coach will push them over the hump.

THAT said, I do think the team looks to be on the verge to sync-up and break-out. You see flashes of an small burst before hopefully the full on explosion.

When a GM lands both of Seider at #6 and Raymond at #4 who are some of the best in their respective draft, then he just bought himself an additional 4 years.

Those two picks alone proves Yzerman is one of the best GMs in the league. It's clear to anyone paying attention that yzerman isn't shooting for short term mid success. He's trying to build another dynasty. That takes time.

His prospect pool looks pretty dam deep. Only needs to hit on a few key players. I think Cossa is going to be one of those key players.

I can judge yzerman based on his last 3 first round picks. He's well on his way to building a dynasty.

Just need some later round prospects to pan out, which is surely too early to judge.

 

[Hockeyfan2390]

You got a source from 2019 of Yzerman saying the Wings won’t be competitive until 2027?

Way too many fans here seem to think that when Yzerman did in fact say patience was required and it would take time, that he meant non-competitive hockey until almost a decade had passed of his tenure.

Most rational fans took that to mean that yes, it would take 2-3 years to clear out the stench of Ken Holland's mismanagement, but that they would be back in business by year 4-5 of getting back to the postseason.

Like I said before, if the goal of the Red WIngs as an organization was to not return to the playoffs until 2027-28, then they could have hired anyone off the street to be their GM. Yzerman wasn't hired for that - he was hired to be special, not just another run of the mill executive.

and if yzerman would have spent more future cap on better ufa the team would have gotten into playoffs past few years to do nothing . lessening his draft spot and future cap space , all at the cost of future success . but many fans are too dense to figure that out and choose to get their kicks by yzer'bashing . too dense to figure out that more expensive ufa signings would have created a problem when signing sides n rayz . also too dense to realize yzerman obviously proved he knew what he was doing in tbay during a dynasty run via drafting n trading , the only thing slowed tbay down was the cap caused them to lose important depth players . how fans can sit here ignoring what yzer did in tbay then the 1st round draft pix he keeps rocking in detroit and bash him is ridiculous . not to mention the absolute all time shambles detroits depth chart was in when he took over , people prove their stupidity by not realizing a depth chart that gone takes minimum 6 or 7 years to rebuild because the hockey talent pool on earth isnt very deep as theres fewer athletes earth wide playing this cold weather sport ! mean while people can play baseball , football , bball world wide near 12 month out of year so theres more good players to draft in other sports so rebuilds happen quicker . mean while guys like asp/cossa/buchnelnikov/finnie/lombardi/augustine are doing great but of course the bashers dont reconize that are in most cases even know hhow good their doing

Does your phone/laptop not have an enter/return button? Goodness.

Keep drinking that Yzerman bathwater.

May as well buckle up. This thread as legs that might make it to next season.

Yeah, but, you know, you're dense if you don't see the big picture! Stop complaining and daring to expect more as a paying customer/invested fan by year 6! Yzerplan!!!!!

 

[Chainshot]

May as well buckle up. This thread as legs that might make it to next season.

Call it the sine wave of the DRW?

 

[TheDoldrums]

Yzerman has been clear on day one. Armchair GMs in this thread refuse to accept his comment. Instead these professional internet armchair GMs have put in some kind of weird and nonsensical arbitrary timeline. We laugh at that! And we laugh at them!

Yeah if I got a GM job I would also plead to not judge me for 8 years, sounds like a sweet deal.

 

[ShanahanMan]

I’ve been one of Yzerman’s biggest defenders, attributing this shit roster to Holland/Wright tandem for years. 6 seasons in, I’m pretty done. It’s hard to look at his combination of free agent signings/trades/draft picks as anything other than a complete and utter failure.

Sorry Steve.

 

[nbwingsfan]

Way too many fans here seem to think that when Yzerman did in fact say patience was required and it would take time, that he meant non-competitive hockey until almost a decade had passed of his tenure.

Most rational fans took that to mean that yes, it would take 2-3 years to clear out the stench of Ken Holland's mismanagement, but that they would be back in business by year 4-5 of getting back to the postseason.

Like I said before, if the goal of the Red WIngs as an organization was to not return to the playoffs until 2027-28, then they could have hired anyone off the street to be their GM. Yzerman wasn't hired for that - he was hired to be special, not just another run of the mill executive.



Does your phone/laptop not have an enter/return button? Goodness.

Keep drinking that Yzerman bathwater.



Yeah, but, you know, you're dense if you don't see the big picture! Stop complaining and daring to expect more as a paying customer/invested fan by year 6! Yzerplan!!!!!

If we hired just “any GM” then we could have just as easily ended up with Broberg, Perfetti instead of Seider and Raymond.

How does the team look now?

 

[Golden_Jet]

The Red Wings hired the supposed best GM in the game so that he would only start producing results 8 years into his tenure? Absolutely and completely unacceptable. The Red Wings could have hired anyone off the street if that was the plan.

What in the world are we supposed to do until then?

That’s just a bad take,

 

[deca guard]

im thinking warrior troll and kansas city troll are one in the same

 

[RedHawkDown]

If they’re tanking in year 6 of the famed “Yzerplan”, then Yzerman is a failure.

I don’t really get tf you people want.

If he doesn’t tank, he is wasting draft position because they’re not good enough to contend.

If he tanks, he’s a failure because they’re bad.

Would you like a Connor mcdavid to be picked 60th overall? Because that’s the only alternative.

 

[Dotter]

And his paying customers are being clearer. They need to speed this thing TF up, immediately. Why the hell should we support this garbage product if the goal is to not win until 2027?

In what other profession do you get to openly say you're not going to begin producing results until years later? Why should these sports executives be treated as if they're curing cancer and are above reproach?

Management needs to have a serious conversation with Yzerman and tell him that a quarter has been placed into the parking meter and the clock is ticking.



It's not a "weird and nonsensical arbitrary timeline" to expect the Red Wings, one of the NHL's premier franchises, to be back in the postseason after literally half a decade has passed under the tutelage of the supposed top GM in hockey.

Again, nobody said that the Red Wings had to be the Red Wings of old and be legit Cup contenders by this point. Making the playoffs in the NHL, where half the League gets in, isn't hard.

Imagine telling New York Yankees fans if Derek Jeter returned to take over as GM during a rough period and that they still hadn't made the playoffs by year 6 of his tenure, and he openly implied that fans needed to wait another 2-3 years before they could maybe think of the postseason. Fans would burn Yankee Stadium down.

Why does Yzerman get this get out of jail free card?



You can't build exclusively through the draft. The Red WIngs are a perfect example of this.

Now don't get me wrong - I absolutely hope that all of these sacred "kids" still in Grand Rapids are the next Brayden Point, Nikita Kucherov, Cale Makar, and Andrei Vasilevskiy and we're sitting here in 3-4 years and the Red Wings are a wagon with a decade-long Cup window.

But until then, we don't know if these kids are going to pan out. Remember when we thought players like Filip Zadina and Dennis Cholowski were part of the next big wave?


Yzerman's placeholders have been grossly overpaid and have vastly underperformed. There's nothing wrong with saying that he made several mistakes by signing players like Copp, Compher, Chiarot, Petry, etc.

You're right, Yzerman could build a contender for the next 2 years if he mortgaged the entire foreseeable future. I am sure he could trade all his 1st rounder until 2027 and trade ASP, MBN, Cossa, Edvinsson, Kasper, Danielsson, etc and get some nice pieces who are on wrong side of their prime.

But that would get me on the "fire Yzerman" bandwagon. As a paying client, I enjoy watching the progress of the prospects as the team improves each season. I enjoy watching Seider and Raymond win and nearly win the calder. I enjoy seeing Edvinsson become something special. I enjoyed watching Cossa come in a losing game and walk away with the win.

You can spend your money and time the way you want. But the way Yzerman is building this team is exactly the way I would do it. I can relate to his rebuild. I see the light at the end of the tunnel, you probably see fire and brimstone. My guess is that's just who you are on a daily basis. I bet you're real fun at parties!

Stop crying about "paying clients". Either pay and watch... or go kick rocks. Maybe Lions are more up your alley if you can't deal with DRWs growing pains.

 

[Nogatco Rd]

mean while people can play baseball , football , bball world wide near 12 month out of year so theres more good players to draft in other sports so rebuilds happen quicker .

Hard to argue with this logic

 

[Dotter]

You got a source from 2019 of Yzerman saying the Wings won’t be competitive until 2027?

No. I do not have a source - I simply used deductive reasoning. Do you have a source that says a rebuild starting from virtually nothing in a 32 team league takes 6 years?

Devils made the playoffs 2 times in 14 years, and had multiple top 5 picks (Three top 2 picks!). I would disappointed with that output. I would want to be a perennial playoff team before 14 years. But not everything can go as 'plan'.

I guess we ALL have our own 'arbitrary' number. If Yzerman hasn't build a perennial playoff team by 2028, I'll be disappointed.

 

[goonybird]

Let’s be honest, I know it’s pretty obvious, but not drafting Quinn Hughes when he was in your backyard was franchise altering.

Also, the lack of quality defencemen, seider is getting overworked and overplayed

it is, but Zadina looked a much better prospect than he turned out to be. Additionally, the Mooseheads had MacKinnon (Drouin), Meier, Ehlers, and Hischier put up similar D+0 numbers on far better teams. Hischier had an excellent rookie season, Meier was on the ascent, Ehlers was looking great, Drouin was still a hot commodity despite having a down-year, MacKinnon finally broke through. blah blah blah

I think Quinn should've gone much sooner and might've been their guy anyways, but when Zadina started falling they saw an opportunity. It is definitely franchise-altering shit, but I wouldn't say Quinn was an easy pick at the time. Bouchard going as low as he did was criminal and you could make an argument for either at the time.

Thank you for listening to my story. Please rate and subscribe.

 

[Fatass]

Wings were the club out of the bottom feeders (in their division) t get close to the playoffs. It looks like they aren’t going to get close this year. Maybe the Sens will take their place?

 

[Hisch13r]

Wings were the club out of the bottom feeders (in their division) t get close to the playoffs. It looks like they aren’t going to get close this year. Maybe the Sens will take their place?

Sabres missed by a pt in 22-23. Wings lost on a tiebreaker in 23-24. Sens turn for last minute heartbreak.

 

[Fatass]

Sabres missed by a pt in 22-23. Wings lost on a tiebreaker in 23-24. Sens turn for last minute heartbreak.

Kind of sad how those clubs fight over the scraps left by the Leags, Tampa, Panthers, and Boston.
At some point one of the four bottom feeders in that division need to challenge the top four.

 

[Bank Shot]

And I Say that liking Raymond, Seider, and Edvinsson a lot. But there are lots of teams with a core that isn't a ton worse with a far better supporting cast.

Also teams with better cores like San Jose that are still working on the supporting cast.

The problem with only building through the draft which is the plan Yzerman is following is that it takes forever, and before you can develop the critical mass of talent needed to win, the first generation of draft picks either leaves for free agency or end up with high salaries which prevents bringing in secondary talent.

Successful teams also need to score some wins in trade or aquire undervalued pro players.

Yzerman had a very good opportunity to supplement his core with talent when the cap was flat and the Wings had tonnes of room. He basically did nothing with it. The only acquisition of any consequence was Debrincat, and Yzerman gave up too much in assets give the cap hit he gave him. Debrincat would be a dump today rather than get a first.

 

[Fatass]

Imo the Wings rebuild has fallen quite a lot behind what the Sabres are doing. Yes, both clubs have had high draft picks but the Sens drafted stars. The Sabres just don’t have that.

 

[Golden_Jet]

Didn’t see that coming

You got a source from 2019 of Yzerman saying the Wings won’t be competitive until 2027?

No. I do not have a source - I simply used deductive reasoning.

 

[Fatass]

The thread suggest, from its title, there is a Wings fall. Wings barely missed the playoffs last season. Given time the souls be able t dole the problem,,

 

[Hockeyfan2390]

That’s just a bad take,

I like the part where you explained why waiting until year 8 to produce meaningful results is a good strategy.