Detroit Redwings Downfall

[Boud]

Petry and Chiarot 2nd pair is not good enough. Holl isn’t very good. The defence overall is just not good enough. They don’t take many shots on goal, partly because their D struggles to get the puck out to the forwards. Not something you can easily fix at this stage in the season. They needed a good Dman in the offseason. Walman move was a head-scratcher. Seider could be playing better.

There’s depth up front but not enough guys who actually make plays and create scoring chances. Tarasenko and Kane are getting old. They’re one of the lowest scoring teams in the league at 5 on 5. Outside of the top line there’s no offensive to speak of. Compher and Copp don’t look like 5M $ players.

The PP is on fire but they just can’t score at 5 on 5 and they don’t create enough chances. The PK is just horrendous.

Goaltending has been really good and likely the only reason they’re still close to .500 … Not sure I had Cam Talbot putting up those numbers on my bingo card but he’s been keeping them in games.

Can’t imagine they make the playoffs this year. There’s just a lot missing on the roster. There’s holes on D and not enough on forward. The goalies are unlikely to sustain this level of play. I feel like they have regressed from last season. This is a one line team.

 

[Hockeyfan2390]

Lol lost to the Sharks.

Gotta think the coach will be fired any hour now

"We ask that you bear with us."

 

[Nogatco Rd]

A downfall with year over year improvement, simple methods and numbers are confusing people.. interesting.

They’re in last place in the East. Are you saying you think they’ll improve on last year’s finish?

 

[BluesyShoes]

They are still building. They have a lot of good pieces, have some good veterans for the young players to learn from. As pointed out, as long as they keep improving they will climb the mountain eventually. Nate Danielson looks like a gem, ASP looks like a weapon. Their homegrown D core is still super young and are still years away from their prime. Cossa is putting up good numbers in the minors this year. They've done a fantastic job of collecting all the pieces, and they aren't all ready yet. Still probably have at least 1 more top 10 pick in the draft to add some scoring. I'm not a Detroit fan but I'm really excited about the team they are building, and Danielson is wildly underhyped on these boards.

 

[Peasy]

Whos firing their coach first, detroit or boston?

 

[Pavels Dog]

So you are saying that with all those high draft picks, this is the result you should expect from an organization? The Canucks had far less draft picks, and have managed to build a decent team in about the same time frame that the Red Wings have had, and that is with a very average GM during those draft years, unless you think Benning was a drafting genius.

Management has failed in Detroit, and very badly.

Canucks are on a bit of a different timeline. Doesn't excuse every bit of roster construction for the Wings, but obviously if the main goal was to be a decent team ASAP they wouldn't have done the Hronek/ASP swap for example.

The Red Wings organization did everything you are suppose to in order to rebuild fairly quickly. They have had a ton of 1st and 2nd round draft picks the last 7 drafts - 10 in the 1st round and 15 in the 2nd round. You should easily be able to build at least a strong play-off team by now with that, if not an elite team.

So why have zero NHL teams been able to do that?

10 years is a hilarious stretch of time to make your point with. Connor McDavid hasn't even been in the league 10 years. In the last 10 years Vegas went from not even existing to winning a championship

Again, that was the point. Writing off Raymond at 22, as well as every other player or prospect in their system, is being delusional about your ability to predict the future.

 

[Dotter]

So you are saying that with all those high draft picks, this is the result you should expect from an organization? The Canucks had far less draft picks, and have managed to build a decent team in about the same time frame that the Red Wings have had, and that is with a very average GM during those draft years, unless you think Benning was a drafting genius.

Management has failed in Detroit, and very badly.

Wut? Canucks have literally 2 players on their roster drafted after 2019; Hoglander and Podkolzin. Which one of those greats is better than Seider and/or raymond?

The context of my post (replying to another member) is redraft 2019-2024 and build a better prospect pool. You interject with some weird off-the-wall comment.

 

[TheDoldrums]

Which funny enough, puts him just one goal behind Connor Bedard, with 4 fewer games played.

You should see someone about your YDS.

Wow, he’s one goal behind the guy famously being criticized for not scoring goals this season. Colour me impressed!

They are still building. They have a lot of good pieces, have some good veterans for the young players to learn from. As pointed out, as long as they keep improving they will climb the mountain eventually. Nate Danielson looks like a gem, ASP looks like a weapon. Their homegrown D core is still super young and are still years away from their prime. Cossa is putting up good numbers in the minors this year. They've done a fantastic job of collecting all the pieces, and they aren't all ready yet. Still probably have at least 1 more top 10 pick in the draft to add some scoring. I'm not a Detroit fan but I'm really excited about the team they are building, and Danielson is wildly underhyped on these boards.

Nate Danielson is a gem who is wildly underhyped. How hyped should a guy with 2 goals and 8 points in 15 AHL games be? This is the calvalry on the way to save this bad offense? Uh

 

[Dotter]

Whos firing their coach first, detroit or boston?

Good question. My money is both will probably be in the same timeframe when "the chips fall".

I am expecting Detroit to transition to a different coach during these 2 days off until next game. If Yzerman doesn't fire the coach, then I think he is going to take this opportunity to naturally tank the 2024/25 season. If he isn't firing the coach this week, then he should start selling.

 

[Dotter]

A rational poster above said the 2nd D pairing is too bad to compete. He is right. Not much else matters until they can get an at least competent second pairing.

I blame coaching. There's better pairing options available, but Laldone is determined to force square peg in round hole.

 

[TKB]

A rational poster above said the 2nd D pairing is too bad to compete. He is right. Not much else matters until they can get an at least competent second pairing.

Or at least change something up. I have said that one of the valid criticisms of Yzerman is that I haven't been sold on Lalonde, (though I do think he is a good guy).

I don't like what they seem to have taken out of MO's game and for the life of me, can't understand how he keeps running back 8 and 47 as a second pairing with such disastrous results. It is one thing if asking them to be sacrificial lambs but the team was competing, but that is obviously not the case.

 

[Indrid Cold]

Or at least change something up. I have said that one of the valid criticisms of Yzerman is that I haven't been sold on Lalonde, (though I do think he is a good guy).

I don't like what they seem to have taken out of MO's game and for the life of me, can't understand how he keeps running back 8 and 47 as a second pairing with such disastrous results. It is one thing if asking them to be sacrificial lambs but the team was competing, but that is obviously not the case.

It's the stupid waiting game.... Not making a move knowing you will eventually have a prospect fill that role. It handcuffs the team. I care more about long term success and would rather them not spend capital/cap space on an upgraded place holder that ASP/Wallinder will take, someday anyway.

 

[TKB]

It's the stupid waiting game.... Not making a move knowing you will eventually have a prospect fill that role. It handcuffs the team. I care more about long term success and would rather them not spend capital/cap space on an upgraded place holder that ASP/Wallinder will take, someday anyway.

For sure. I said in the game thread that as frustrating as the start of this season has been, by far the most important thing in the long run is the continued development of prospects, which for the most part is going well so far this year.

 

[WarriorofTime]

Does the fact that Connor Bedard has only scored 3 goal this year somehow suggest that he is not a good hockey player?

You know things are bad when the gang starts getting wildly off-topic, lol

 

[TKB]

You know things are bad when the gang starts getting wildly off-topic, lol

Right on cue...I knew it.

 

[newfy]

It's hard to say that Eichel is riding his second overall hype when he's regularly been a point per game player on good and bad teams, when he had 26 pts in 22 games in the playoffs as the top centre on the Stanley Cup winner, and when he's regularly among the lead leaders in defensive impact.

Points tell one story, watching them tells more of it. One is an impact top centre and has proven it, the other is Larkin.

No, the whole story is that Eichel had that massive playoff run. And he obviously deserves credit for it, but before that, the talk about Eichel was how he's a me first player, didn't live up to the hype of his draft year, potential locker room cancer etc etc. Winning shuts all that talk down

In the last 3 seasons, Larkin has literally played above a 35 goal, 81 point pace.
Eichel in that same time frame has a 79.5 point pace to go with a 36 goal pace.

They're within a 1 goal, 2 point pace of eachother with Larkin playing 55 games more with a significantly worse supporting cast. Eichel "proved it", by winning a cup and all the hype returned for him. I'm not even saying Larkin is better or anything like that, I'm just saying there isn't some massive gap and if you can win with one as your top guy, you will have a solid chance with the other if everything else is relatively equal

The Red Wings organization did everything you are suppose to in order to rebuild fairly quickly. They have had a ton of 1st and 2nd round draft picks the last 7 drafts - 10 in the 1st round and 15 in the 2nd round. You should easily be able to build at least a strong play-off team by now with that, if not an elite team.

The obvious major failure here is drafting. It has been monumentally bad.

This is absolutely not the issue. Ending up with Seider, Raymond and Edvinsson where they drafted is the problem? They came as close to hitting those picks out of the park as possible. If you want to count Hollands time, sure Zadina ended up a really bad pick and Rasmussen a meh pick. But even including those, I would bet that they got above average value for their drafting in that time. Late round stuff is still too early to tell

 

[SympathyForTheDevils]

It's the stupid waiting game.... Not making a move knowing you will eventually have a prospect fill that role. It handcuffs the team. I care more about long term success and would rather them not spend capital/cap space on an upgraded place holder that ASP/Wallinder will take, someday anyway.

I think that waiting game is a trap. There's so many teams in this league doing this that go absolutely nowhere; unless you have a horseshoe up your ass and snag a generational player plus a superstar or two in the draft (unlikely, unless you do like the Oilers and spend a whole decade as a basement team) good drafting alone won't carry you any higher than the league's mushy middle, and maybe a wild card playoff spot from time to time. The reality is, even if all of Detroit's top prospects (Danielson, MBN, ASL, Cossa) hit, which is unlikely, that team still won't be good enough to contend.

Successful rebuilds generally need to take risks and spend cap space/assets on outside talent that fit the team's needs and window. Save for Debrincat, Yzerman has not done a whole lot of that in Detroit. He's mostly just signed (and often overpaid) aging players and castoffs to serve as warm bodies. And while it's true that those bad contracts won't hinder the team long-term, they will still have to be replaced by better players, players that likely won't be coming from their farm system. Given Yzerman's generally poor pro scouting decisions in Detroit, there's good reason to be skeptical about the team's future.

 

[Zarzh]

I mean he has 5 on the team right now playing...
Mazur is injured, but he is NHL ready, so that's 6 right there. Not including ASP, Cossa, Danielsson, and MBN.

High lottery picks and a 7th defenseman that's already almost 24? I'm not talking about early picks because the assumption is they workout. Detroit is the only fanbase that would treat Mazur as a sure thing instead of a guy they hope becomes something.

 

[qc14]

I for one am shocked. A team that sucked last year and whose big offseason moves were bringing paying a 2nd to swap Walman with Gustafsson and Perron with Tarasenko still sucks?

Don't worry, just one more year of the Yzerplan and I'm sure it'll pay off.

 

[FriendlyGhost92]

I for one am shocked. A team that sucked last year and whose big offseason moves were bringing paying a 2nd to swap Walman with Gustafsson and Perron with Tarasenko still sucks?

Don't worry, just one more year of the Yzerplan and I'm sure it'll pay off.

Yzerman has been saying since 2019 that his plan was to build through the draft, so not sure why it's befuddling to you that he signed a bunch of plugs to 1 and 2 year deals right as those draftees are about to filter into the lineup.

 

[Realgud]

Change of plans?

 

[qc14]

Yzerman has been saying since 2019 that his plan was to build through the draft, so not sure why it's befuddling to you that he signed a bunch of plugs to 1 and 2 year deals right as those draftees are about to filter into the lineup.

He could have added good veterans to the lineup instead of bad ones. Or made good picks in the 2nd round instead of bad ones.

Other teams do it all the time.

 

[gary559]

This season should be mucked and just take the L. Kane isn't that good anymore and the Tarasenko signing looks bad already, but the biggest problem is they can't play in their own zone. I think everyone on D has looked awful which makes me think it's a coaching/system issue but even if somebody could come in and get that sorted out, they will have a mountain to climb to make the playoffs. Tank this year and secure a high draft pick and bring in another coach about midway that can start making evaluations for next season.

 

[FriendlyGhost92]

He could have added good veterans to the lineup instead of bad ones. Or made good picks in the 2nd round instead of bad ones.

Other teams do it all the time.

Good veterans don't typically sign one year deals and Detroit has made several good picks in the 2nd round over the past 3-4 years.

Would you like to try again?

 

[qc14]

Good veterans don't typically sign one year deals and Detroit has made several good picks in the 2nd round over the past 3-4 years.

Would you like to try again?

Of the vets he's brought in how many besides Kane have been 1 year deals? Guys like Chatfield, Ghost, Gudas, Dillon, Jensen, Kovacevic, Marino, Soucy, Chychrun were all available the past couple years on short to medium term deals and are better players than any of the veteran defenseman they've spent as much or more money on.

Those good picks (including 13!!! second rounders) have combined for 30 games and 8 points in the NHL outside the first round.

He undoubtedly took over a tough position and had no lottery luck whatsoever. That being said, he's done absolutely nothing -- whether it's pro scouting, amateur scouting, development, coaching hires, cap management -- to squeeze anything extra out of the hand he was dealt.