Detroit Redwings Downfall

[Maliks PlusMinus]

The Wings have improved in the standings every year Yzerman has been GM, so you're doing this wrong.

I agree with you. I think he’s doing meh, ok. Just pointing out to the previous poster that lots of people keep their job without necessarily getting great results

 

[viper0220]

They need to rebuild, they are stuck in no man’s land.

 

[Dotter]

I stopped reading... you are somehow arguing me saying 'the Canucks rebuild is better than Detroits'.. which I never said. But you keep arguing it and make it clear for me.

Do you even know what you said?

If you don't consider a 30 point increase from one season to the next a substantial increase.

There shouldn't have been that big of a jump in the first place. Canucks should have been better than their previous standings suggest. That's Canucks failures, not reflective of Detroits rebuild in absolutely no way whatsoever.

Or going from not making playoffs to winning a round and going to game 7 in round 2.

Again, Canucks were underperforming and they finally caught up to what they were supposed to be...

Then I don't know how else to explain substantial increase from season to season.

Because Canucks were underperforming. Their core is already aging out after they are finally looking like a formidable playoff team.

 

[Dotter]

He did come into a bad situation, and it was going to take some time.

We're in Year 6. There's no reason why the supposed best GM in hockey shouldn't have been able to make them a playoff team by now.

If his last name wasn't Yzerman, he wouldn't have been allowed to remain on the job for this long with no playoff appearances.

Like another poster said in another thread, Yzerman has the longest leash in the NHL by far, and it's showing.

Wrong. If Yzerman didn't score Seider and Raymond through his brilliant drafting... meh, he might be on cold ice right now. But because he has proven to pull a rabbit out of the hat time-and-time again, along with rebuilding his team at a professional level and was honest from the very beginning (and I am sure ownership was 100% fully committed to the Yzerplan). It's not like [_insert you favorite GM here_] could do better. Your favorite GM probably would have most certainly bombed on the Seider and Raymond pick.

Yzerman was criticized on HFboards relentlessly for choosing Seider with his 6th pick. Your group was telling Wings fans that Yzerman was terrible for picking Seider. That didn't age well in your people's echochamber, did it? Forgive me for taking your opinion as nothing more than a smelly turd. I'll give you this... it's poop spewing at it's finest!

 

[Deep Blue Metallic]

The Yzerplan thread wasn't good enough?

 

[Dotter]

I’m a restaurant manager and have skated by for five and a half while sales have fallen without doing much of anything to change it.
Should I be worried?
I have taken my franchise backwards but have a leash as long as Stevie Y . My boss reckons I’m doing a good job.

You're a restaurant manager and had to take the first year to clean house, so lost profits during restructuring during covid.

Year ONE restructuring/covid loss
Year TWO restructuring/covid loss
Year THREE zero profit - break even
Year FOUR $6 *million in profits gain
Year FIVE $11 *million in profits gain
Year SIX TBD (and have a wealth of prospects and talent)

That's pretty damn good!

*million per +point gained.

 

[MNRube]

I would argue that MN right now is in a much better position than DET. Their prospect pool is superior and the young pieces on their team are better. Kaprizov, Boldy, Rossi, Faber, Erickson Ek are all really solid core pieces. They will have a large amount of cap space to weaponize next year too. I am not a Wild fan but I think they look like more of a contender than the DRW in the near future.

100%. But we’ve been mediocre for the entirety of our 25 year history

 

[ShakenNotStirred]

I’m a restaurant manager and have skated by for five and a half while sales have fallen without doing much of anything to change it.
Should I be worried?
I have taken my franchise backwards but have a leash as long as Stevie Y . My boss reckons I’m doing a good job.

Sales have fallen over the last 5.5 years? Are you saying they are worse than the 2019-2020 red wings? How many points did they have that year and how many did they have last year?

Hyperbole and lack of patience rule our times.

 

[Maliks PlusMinus]

Sales have fallen over the last 5.5 years? Are you saying they are worse than the 2019-2020 red wings? How many points did they have that year and how many did they have last year?

Hyperbole and lack of patience rule our times.

No, on the contrary I agree yzerman is ok. I was illustrating to another poster that many of us keep our jobs with limited results

 

[Snuggs]

Most Red Wings commenting are the same fans who are the apologist in the forum.

That being said, Yzerman's not ran a train-wreck like this thread and OP suggested, they don't have "stars" lol. They do need a lot more help on defense. They're really, really bad on the back end. They could also use more talent at center BEHIND Larkin, or even someone better.

This thread doesn't acknowledge that Yzerman has a lot of money to work with still in the future, full stash of draft picks, prospects, and ability to make a move if one is available. None of it means success, but it's far from a train-wreck or plan gone wrong.

I'm hyper critical as a Wings fan, but I'm not about to sit here and say he's done something worth firing.

They're in a similar situation as Buffalo (Idk how good or bad that is) where they have some nice/core guys signed, money coming off the books, some prospects ready to rise and decision to make with players/coaches. They aren't hamstringed by any means, but direction is needed.

 

[Oddbob]

Can mods tell me what is the difference between this thread and the Yzerman doubt thread?

 

[Hockeyfan2390]

So, any other GM gets the team right where they are now. But your expectations are the root of your current distress. Fix that maybe.

You’re hilariously kidding yourself if you think that your continued acceptance of the spinning hamster wheel with no clear direction or tangible improvements (as previously stated, getting incrementally better isn’t good enough anymore by year six) somehow represent the majority of Detroit fans.

The Wings have improved in the standings every year Yzerman has been GM, so you're doing this wrong.

Cool. By year six, they should be solidly in the playoffs - or at the very least, have an identity.

The fact that neither is occurring this year ( the former shows all the signs of continuing this year) means Steve is doing this wrong.

 

[sr edler]

They've got an overall mediocre roster, and not a lot of high-end potential either (like say Buffalo's got in Dahlin and Thompson or Ottawa with Stützle). Dylan Larkin is the most exciting player on that team. Good player, very nice skater, nice-ish player, but not very dynamic in the greater picture.

 

[Pavels Dog]

https://x.com/i/web/status/1855749650671624220

 

[Miri]

sorry my spelling is off today, did i get any other names wrong?

Yes, its Deadwings, not Red Wings

Seriously though, as an Avs fan, i kinda would want them to be good and meet them in SCF and f*** them up - to get that rivalry from late 90s back. Too bad they are gonna be good again probably only at the moment Avs gonna suck again.

 

[JediOrderPizza]

Yes, its Deadwings, not Red Wings

Seriously though, as an Avs fan, i kinda would want them to be good and meet them in SCF and f*** them up - to get that rivalry from late 90s back. Too bad they are gonna be good again probably only at the moment Avs gonna suck again.

The good ol' days.

 

[tanti9]

Do you even know what you said?



There shouldn't have been that big of a jump in the first place. Canucks should have been better than their previous standings suggest. That's Canucks failures, not reflective of Detroits rebuild in absolutely no way whatsoever.




Again, Canucks were underperforming and they finally caught up to what they were supposed to be...



Because Canucks were underperforming. Their core is already aging out after they are finally looking like a formidable playoff team.

As a Canuck fan I do agree with this sentiment on the Canucks. Yes, the Canucks had a big jump last year but it was because their star players started to play to their potential (all at the same time). The Wings do not have any top superstars currently on their roster but do have a lot of star players (if that makes any sense lol). I mean who is their best player? Larkin? Seider? Edvinsson? Raymond?

 

[Dotter]

As a Canuck fan I do agree with this sentiment on the Canucks. Yes, the Canucks had a big jump last year but it was because their star players started to play to their potential (all at the same time). The Wings do not have any top superstars currently on their roster but do have a lot of star players (if that makes any sense lol). I mean who is their best player? Larkin? Seider? Edvinsson? Raymond?

All of them. Three of the four is getting better each season as they are only 21 to 23 years old. They have more potential stars on the way between the ages of 18-20. Unless you draft McDavid, stars aren't stars until they are.

 

[NVious]

I think they have to move on from Larkin/Debrincat (and obviously Kane for whatever you can get) and just tank for more picks.

Larkin and Debrincat are not good enough to be A1 type guys, A2 as in an amazing 2nd liner or good 1st liner sure, but they're not going to take you anywhere.

The Leafs got stuck in a similar position with guys like JVR/Kadri/Kessel/Phaneuf, great complimentary pieces but if you are expecting those guys to lead you anywhere, you are going to be let down.

The problem in keeping them is that they make the team good enough to have a bit of playoff hope and you can't tank with them.

It's way harder to go from mediocre to great than it is to go from horrendous to great.

 

[RedHawkDown]

I think they have to move on from Larkin/Debrincat (and obviously Kane for whatever you can get) and just tank for more picks.

Larkin and Debrincat are not good enough to be A1 type guys, A2 as in an amazing 2nd liner or good 1st liner sure, but they're not going to take you anywhere.

The Leafs got stuck in a similar position with guys like JVR/Kadri/Kessel/Phaneuf, great complimentary pieces but if you are expecting those guys to lead you anywhere, you are going to be let down.

The problem in keeping them is that they make the team good enough to have a bit of playoff hope and you can't tank with them.

It's way harder to go from mediocre to great than it is to go from horrendous to great.

The leafs haven’t gone any further with their current team than with that complimentary piece core that you described, so not sure that’s the best example.

Im not the biggest fan of Yzerman but I just don’t get the point of 10 of these threads. We get it, yall think we have no hope. wtf else is there to discuss? All there is left to do is wait and see if yzerman draft picks prove him right or not. The team is clearly not going to tank. If Kasper/asp/danielson/mbn/cossa picks flop, then Yzerman has failed and the rebuild will have to restart. Until we see that happening, exactly what is being gained with these circular discussions ?

 

[NVious]

The leafs haven’t gone any further with their current team than with that complimentary piece core that you described, so not sure that’s the best example.

Im not the biggest fan of Yzerman but I just don’t get the point of 10 of these threads. We get it, yall think we have no hope. wtf else is there to discuss? All there is left to do is wait and see if yzerman draft picks prove him right or not. The team is clearly not going to tank. If Kasper/asp/danielson/mbn/cossa picks flop, then Yzerman has failed and the rebuild will have to restart. Until we see that happening, exactly what is being gained with these circular discussions ?

It depends on how you define it, but they objectively have considering they won a round with them and have made the playoffs every year.

I think you guys are too used to winning, this happens with all bad teams.

 

[SirKillalot]

Cool. By year six, they should be solidly in the playoffs

In your deluded opinion that has no merit in real life.

All those saying they should be in the playoffs and be a solid team by now come with absolute no reasons of how they should have been there by now, just that they magically should.

So no, they shouldn't necessarily be in the playoffs to be 1st round breeze playoff fodder for the contenders. They have their plan, they are working by their plan, improving every year, this year I don't think they will improve much in points, but they will be improving in development of those young guys on the team, those young guys in Grand Rapids of those who will be on the team next year and of those in Sweden who will be in Grand Rapids next year.

Then we will see some trades, maybe a swing trade, but probably not yet. Some smaller trades maybe, and sending someone off for a pick or two. That's called rebuilding and the franchise is doing it now.

You might not like it, but its not a video game. It takes time.

 

[ozzie]

It's difficult to sleep at night, then I remember the 4 cups. But seriously this is a team that refuses to toss the towel for a season and finishes in mid draft position. They really need to clean house and become the 'dead things' again for a few seasons. I'm not sure they can return to form with the current path. More and more difficult to luck into players like Lidstrom, Fedorov and low draft picks these days.

 

[PullHard]

Why bother making this thread on the main board, OP? There’s already a “lol yzerplan” thread older than half the accounts on this board. You could have just joined in with the non stop bitching on the wings board if you really had to make a thread like this somewhere

 

[Factorial]

Does the Chief post here?