Detroit Redwings Downfall

[VivaLasVegas]

Why would a team without McDavid, Matthews, Eichel, or MacKinnon go out of their way to expedite a return to playoff contention?

Vegas had to TRADE for Eichel. Literally the next season they hoisted the Cup.

 

[SirKillalot]

Vegas had to TRADE for Eichel. Literally the next season they hoisted the Cup.

Because they had no other pieces in place...

 

[bert]

They have definitely been playing better but with that goaltending without an extremely elite player in any other position its hard to win. I think they need to just stick with it and continue to develop. The teams strength is going to be its D core its just a ways away from getting there. Eventually they will control games from the back end out. Need another star forward to go with Larkin and Raymond. Not sure how they get one but they gotta find a way. The Walman trade is just so mind boggling. Stevie Y really making some weird decisions. I also really dont like tieing up 8 million in Debrincat. Just dont win with guys like him making that much money. They have some great foundational pieces, they shouldnt panick.

 

[SirKillalot]

If they are building for 3 years from now then they better trade Larkin…

Imagine doing a rebuild that takes the entire prime of Larkin, your teams 1C.

Just to come out of a rebuild to need a new franchise 1C the next second.
You realize it’s year 7 with Y next season?

Chicago Blackhawks drafted Duncan Keith in 2002, Brent Seabrook in 2003, Dave Bolland and Bryan Bickell in 2004, Niklas Hjalmarsson in 2005, Jonathan Toews in 2006, Patrick Kane in 2007, won cup in 2010. Took 8 years from drafting Keith, not sure exactly when rebuild started as they were bad for quite some time before that.

Tampa drafted Steven Stamkos in 2008, Victor Hedman in 2009, Nikita Kucherov, Vladislav Namestnikov and Ondrej Palat in 2011, Jonathan Drouin in 2013, Brayden Point in 2014, Anthony Cirelli in 2015, won Cup in 2020. Took minimum 12 years.

Los Angeles Kings drafted Dustin Brown in 2003, Anze Kopitar & Jonathan Quick in 2005, Trewor Lewis in 2006, Alec Martinez in 2007, Drew Doughty in 2008, Kyle Clifford in 2009, also drafted Brayden Schenn and Wayne Simmonds during this time, Tyler Toffoli and Derek Forbort in 2010, Tanner Pearson in 2012, Won cup in 2012 & 2014. Took minimum 9 years, most likely 12-13 years.

 

[DarrylshutzSydor]

without an extremely elite player in any other position its hard to win...............Need another star forward to go with Larkin and Raymond.

I don't know what an "extremely elite player is, but Larkin is not a Star that for sho

 

[Beninnola]

Vegas had to TRADE for Eichel. Literally the next season they hoisted the Cup.

Which was a life changing neck surgery dispute. This is so uncommon it’s the only time it has happened, to our knowledge. Vegas benefits from the taxation imbalance and was fortunate to be able to make the deal. Good for them. They punched their ticket for a nice window of competitive hockey, but it wasn’t just some wise gm moves; the city is overly desirable because it has warm weather and nice parties; the taxation is desirable, the owner is committed to winning this very moment at the expense of tomorrow, and they took the risk. I don’t feel Detroit has these same options available.

I feel it’s very safe to say most of the time these types of players aren’t traded. There certainly are the weird cases but there’s always a giant story attached to them - or they’re a hockey trade and you’re just shifting around your deck chairs as opposed to upgrading the boat.

 

[wingerdinger]

The hockey they played down the stretch in March was humiliatingly awful. Those back to back losses against the Coyotes in which they were outplayed and outshot along with other ridiculous losses to the Sabres and Penguins were downright embarrassing.

Detroit had a 9 point lead from the cutoff point at the end of February last season and their 7 game slide erased that - just like their 6 game slide and losing 8 of 10 this season has had the same effect.

That was Lalonde, during that 7 game losing stretch he ran lyons into the ground and refused to give alex a break. Lalonde should have been fired there and then.I liked the grit they showed in april, the team never seemed to quit.

 

[WarriorofTime]

Chicago Blackhawks drafted Duncan Keith in 2002, Brent Seabrook in 2003, Dave Bolland and Bryan Bickell in 2004, Niklas Hjalmarsson in 2005, Jonathan Toews in 2006, Patrick Kane in 2007, won cup in 2010. Took 8 years from drafting Keith, not sure exactly when rebuild started as they were bad for quite some time before that.

Tampa drafted Steven Stamkos in 2008, Victor Hedman in 2009, Nikita Kucherov, Vladislav Namestnikov and Ondrej Palat in 2011, Jonathan Drouin in 2013, Brayden Point in 2014, Anthony Cirelli in 2015, won Cup in 2020. Took minimum 12 years.

Los Angeles Kings drafted Dustin Brown in 2003, Anze Kopitar & Jonathan Quick in 2005, Trewor Lewis in 2006, Alec Martinez in 2007, Drew Doughty in 2008, Kyle Clifford in 2009, also drafted Brayden Schenn and Wayne Simmonds during this time, Tyler Toffoli and Derek Forbort in 2010, Tanner Pearson in 2012, Won cup in 2012 & 2014. Took minimum 9 years, most likely 12-13 years.

Wings drafted Larkin 11 years ago

 

[Czechboy]

Did lalaonde ever do worse than 2 and 8? Because that is what the koala has going right now. 2 wins in last 10.games. did lalaonde ever go 1 and 9 or 0 and 10?

 

[Coach Reggie Dunlop]

They have definitely been playing better but with that goaltending without an extremely elite player in any other position it’s hard to win. I think they need to just stick with it and continue to develop. The teams strength is going to be its D core its just a ways away from getting there. Eventually they will control games from the back end out. Need another star forward to go with Larkin and Raymond. Not sure how they get one but they gotta find a way. The Walman trade is just so mind boggling. Stevie Y really making some weird decisions. I also really dont like tieing up 8 million in Debrincat. Just dont win with guys like him making that much money. They have some great foundational pieces, they shouldnt panick.

I agree with what you said, but Debrincat has arguably been our second best player this year. He’s on pace for 35 goals.

 

[nbwingsfan]

That would at least be a sign of progress.

Detroit has made no progress under Yzerman

You mean to tell me a team who has 92pts has shown progress but a team who has 91pts has made no progress at all….?

Yzerman hasn’t been good the last 12 months, but this is hilariously bad logic, especially considering Detroit has gone up every single season in the standings until this year under Yzerman

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

You mean to tell me a team who has 92pts has shown progress but a team who has 91pts has made no progress at all….?

Yzerman hasn’t been good the last 12 months, but this is hilariously bad logic, especially considering Detroit has gone up every single season in the standings until this year under Yzerman

I'm telling you there comes a point where progress means playoffs and if you don't make the playoffs it doesn't matter how many points you put up because you failed to make the playoffs.

Detroit reached that point last season.

If the Red wings put up 94 points next season and miss the playoffs by a point you would say that's tremendous progress because this year they probably won't finish with 80 points.

So a +15 point jump is something you would call tremendous progress.

But I would look at that and say there was no progress because they still missed the playoffs and for them progress means playoffs.

 

[saska sault]

Did lalaonde ever do worse than 2 and 8? Because that is what the koala has going right now. 2 wins in last 10.games. did lalaonde ever go 1 and 9 or 0 and 10?

Don't know, don't care. Team looks 10x's better and more invested under McLellan. Last stretch is a major disappointment but they wouldn't have even reached meaningful games this year under Lalonde.

 

[Czechboy]

Don't know, don't care. Team looks 10x's better and more invested under McLellan. Last stretch is a major disappointment but they wouldn't have even reached meaningful games this year under Lalonde.

10x better when they are playing .200 hockey? Only team with a worse last ten games is Philly at 1-8-1. Weird you don't care. Pretty sure this is the worst they have been all season. Including under Lalonde. Which is why I asked how many 2-8 runs Lalonde had.

 

[deca guard]

Chicago Blackhawks drafted Duncan Keith in 2002, Brent Seabrook in 2003, Dave Bolland and Bryan Bickell in 2004, Niklas Hjalmarsson in 2005, Jonathan Toews in 2006, Patrick Kane in 2007, won cup in 2010. Took 8 years from drafting Keith, not sure exactly when rebuild started as they were bad for quite some time before that.

Tampa drafted Steven Stamkos in 2008, Victor Hedman in 2009, Nikita Kucherov, Vladislav Namestnikov and Ondrej Palat in 2011, Jonathan Drouin in 2013, Brayden Point in 2014, Anthony Cirelli in 2015, won Cup in 2020. Took minimum 12 years.

Los Angeles Kings drafted Dustin Brown in 2003, Anze Kopitar & Jonathan Quick in 2005, Trewor Lewis in 2006, Alec Martinez in 2007, Drew Doughty in 2008, Kyle Clifford in 2009, also drafted Brayden Schenn and Wayne Simmonds during this time, Tyler Toffoli and Derek Forbort in 2010, Tanner Pearson in 2012, Won cup in 2012 & 2014. Took minimum 9 years, most likely 12-13 years.

so many people criticize yzerman without having the slightest clue what theyre talking about

 

[nbwingsfan]

I'm telling you there comes a point where progress means playoffs and if you don't make the playoffs it doesn't matter how many points you put up because you failed to make the playoffs.

Detroit reached that point last season.

If the Red wings put up 94 points next season and miss the playoffs by a point you would say that's tremendous progress because this year they probably won't finish with 80 points.

So a +15 point jump is something you would call tremendous progress.

But I would look at that and say there was no progress because they still missed the playoffs and for them progress means playoffs.

It’s a simple question dude. Lol

Last season you differentiate “showing zero improvement” and “making progress” by a SJ hle point difference… yes or no?

 

[The Last Red]

so many people criticize yzerman without having the slightest clue what theyre talking about

I don’t think that’s correct. His UFA signings and some of his trades were premature but made the Wings “better” enough to ruin their chances for top 3-5 picks in the last few drafts, which they needed . . . and still need.

 

[saska sault]

10x better when they are playing .200 hockey? Only team with a worse last ten games is Philly at 1-8-1. Weird you don't care. Pretty sure this is the worst they have been all season. Including under Lalonde. Which is why I asked how many 2-8 runs Lalonde had.

They deserved a better fate in a lot of those games, not all of them. It's a failure regardless but the team looks much better on the ice. Playing .200 is a disappointment anyway you try to cut it.

 

[BB88]

Chicago Blackhawks drafted Duncan Keith in 2002, Brent Seabrook in 2003, Dave Bolland and Bryan Bickell in 2004, Niklas Hjalmarsson in 2005, Jonathan Toews in 2006, Patrick Kane in 2007, won cup in 2010. Took 8 years from drafting Keith, not sure exactly when rebuild started as they were bad for quite some time before that.

Tampa drafted Steven Stamkos in 2008, Victor Hedman in 2009, Nikita Kucherov, Vladislav Namestnikov and Ondrej Palat in 2011, Jonathan Drouin in 2013, Brayden Point in 2014, Anthony Cirelli in 2015, won Cup in 2020. Took minimum 12 years.

Los Angeles Kings drafted Dustin Brown in 2003, Anze Kopitar & Jonathan Quick in 2005, Trewor Lewis in 2006, Alec Martinez in 2007, Drew Doughty in 2008, Kyle Clifford in 2009, also drafted Brayden Schenn and Wayne Simmonds during this time, Tyler Toffoli and Derek Forbort in 2010, Tanner Pearson in 2012, Won cup in 2012 & 2014. Took minimum 9 years, most likely 12-13 years.

Montreal& Columbus started their rebuild after Detroit, yet they are already at the same spot as Detroit and their future looks brighter

But but but…..

Tampa was also already a top tier team way before 2020.. They were in the finals in 2015 against Chicago
Chicago was at the bottom in -06 and -07 and won the Cup 2010

We aren’t even talking about Cup here, Detroit can’t even get into the playoffs with half of the East being garbage. Year 6 is coming to an end with mastermind Steve Y and absolutely nothing to show for it

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

It’s a simple question dude. Lol

Last season you differentiate “showing zero improvement” and “making progress” by a SJ hle point difference… yes or no?

An SJ Hje point difference?

I'm legitimately not sure what that's supposed to say.

To answer what I believe you are asking.

Progress is playoffs for the Red Wings.

If they don't make the playoffs there is no progress

 

[OccidentalOctopus]

Who are the "sour patch babies"? You mean the paying customers? The fans who have invested their finances and emotions into this failing product?

I mean all the non Wings fans constantly bumping this ridiculous thread every time the Wing lose.

There are no other threads like this on the main board.

It's a joke that it's been allowed to go for this long, and frankly embarrassing that moderators are participating, let alone being the ones fanning the flames.

 

[BB88]

so many people criticize yzerman without having the slightest clue what theyre talking about

By that post we should be seeing Detroit as a legit Stanley Cup champion

Chicago drafted Toews and Kane in 2006& 2007, won the Cup few years later

Tampa drafted Stamkos and Hedman in 2008& 2009 and went to the finals 2015


Montreal and Columbus are current rebuilds that have taken clearly less to get where Detroit has gotten

Maybe Detroit fans just do everything but accept reality, the rebuild so far has been an absolute failure

 

[deca guard]

I don’t think that’s correct. His UFA signings and some of his trades were premature but made the Wings “better” enough to ruin their chances for top 3-5 picks in the last few drafts, which they needed . . . and still need.

he crushed every pick of seider/raymond/edvinsson whom might all go one or two in a redraft . and d'cat was a now or never move and he crushed that , you cant turn down a top 6 peice like that ever for a late 1st . and all his ufa signings were needed in effort to start the teams culture development and get it away from an ugly aura of being real bad . mean while he didnt over buy on top ufa which would have got them really far away from better draft spots , and he signed company men , chariot/compher/copper/perron whom are there to help build team culture and raise the baby wings . you yzer'bashers gonna catch 'a case of the rasberries ' come 2026/27 when the BIG RED MACHINE II starts marching

 

[Neil Patrick Harris]

Chicago Blackhawks drafted Duncan Keith in 2002, Brent Seabrook in 2003, Dave Bolland and Bryan Bickell in 2004, Niklas Hjalmarsson in 2005, Jonathan Toews in 2006, Patrick Kane in 2007, won cup in 2010. Took 8 years from drafting Keith, not sure exactly when rebuild started as they were bad for quite some time before that.

Tampa drafted Steven Stamkos in 2008, Victor Hedman in 2009, Nikita Kucherov, Vladislav Namestnikov and Ondrej Palat in 2011, Jonathan Drouin in 2013, Brayden Point in 2014, Anthony Cirelli in 2015, won Cup in 2020. Took minimum 12 years.

Los Angeles Kings drafted Dustin Brown in 2003, Anze Kopitar & Jonathan Quick in 2005, Trewor Lewis in 2006, Alec Martinez in 2007, Drew Doughty in 2008, Kyle Clifford in 2009, also drafted Brayden Schenn and Wayne Simmonds during this time, Tyler Toffoli and Derek Forbort in 2010, Tanner Pearson in 2012, Won cup in 2012 & 2014. Took minimum 9 years, most likely 12-13 years.

Can we break this down though?

Duncan Keith? He's a Mike Smith pick.
Seabrook, Bolland, Bickell, and Hjalmarsson? Bob Pullford.
Towes and Kane? Dale Tallon.

Stamkos? Jay Feaster.
Hedman? Brian Lawton.
Kucherov, Nameestnikov, Palat, Drouin, Point, and Cirelli? Steve Yzerman.

Brown, Kopitar, and Quick? Dave Taylor.

You're not wrong to say that a rebuild can take a hell of a time to see the results pay off, but how often is it that the *next* GM is the one who gets to enjoy the glory of it? Of the examples you've given, only Dean Lombardi managed to both add critical pieces *and* keep his head above water long enough to reach that success.

Yzerman's plan may work out in the end, but unless the team starts making major steps, he might not last long enough to see it.

 

[BigDaddyLurch]

I mean all the non Wings fans constantly bumping this ridiculous thread every time the Wing lose.

There are no other threads like this on the main board.

It's a joke that it's been allowed to go for this long, and frankly embarrassing that moderators are participating, let alone being the ones fanning the flames.

...the Oilers Culture Problem thread is still on Page One here as well...people bitch and poke here...it's just Detroit's turn in the barrel atm...it'll turn to some other team soon...