Post-Game Talk: Detroit Red Wings at New York Rangers - November 24

[Glen Sathers Cigar]

Hank hasn't played this well in years. Best I remember him playing since the 2014-15 season. Can he continue it? I think this is more promising than most times the last few years when he's had good stats for a few games or weeks. He actually has been excellent, seeing the puck so well, he seems very confident, and its showing up. The team has their star goaltender back that I think they haven't had in years.

The question is whether he can continue it. If he continues to play like this, he can carry this team.

This is the best Hank as looked in the regular season since the beginning of the 2015-16 season. He looks dialed in and aside from the great numbers, just looking at his play Hank is completely in his zone. He's seeing the puck, his technique is on point, he's in great position at all times and he just looks vintage. He really is superb. He's back.

He looks better than at any point last season, even in the Montreal series where he was stopping everything, he is more dialed in and more IN CONTROL right now. He's seriously on point. He's in great form and he's seeing every puck. He looks awesome and that is the most encouraging thing about anything this season. Hank is, in fact, not done. He's still got some miles left on those tires. Give him a little support and he's still Henrik Lundqvist.

As far as Marc Staal, he's been a good 3LD this season, not even bad, he's been good. A 3LD who can eat tough PK minutes. Depending how much the cap goes up this off season, I don't know if buying him out is a foregone conclusion anymore. If we get enough wiggle room, we could keep him for another year if he's going to still be good and go forward with:

McD-XXX
Skjei-Shatt
Staal-Smith
Kampfer

Depending if that partner continues to be Holden at a bargain eating tough D minutes or someone else, I like that D core. Maybe next year it's McD-TDA or McD-Pionk. Or you slide Smith up and Staal rolls with TDA or Pionk. This is a good D core going forward.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

I mostly agree about Hank, I have no clue how the stats compare to the Montreal series, but he looks much better than in that series, more confident in his movements, seeing the puck better, not scrambling, knows what he's doing, and isn't making things difficult for himself. He looks completely in control of his game, and is playing as well as he can play. I am hesitant to say he's for sure back because we are talking about like a month of hockey. He's a HOF goalie, of course he's still capable in his mid 30's of having great stretches. The question is whether he can sustain this. I think there's a much better chance than the last two seasons where I didn't think any of his good stretches were all that great. I didn't even consider it possible those seasons because he didn't look that good, right now he actually is playing great, its not only the stats, so maybe he can sustain this for a full season. I'm not sure, but I think its possible.

Either way, this team is not a contender. The defense is not good enough. To be good enough, they'd need to acquire a first pair defenseman at the deadline to play with McDonagh. Do we want to trade Andersson+1st to do so? And if we are all in another season, Chytil has to come up, and a season of his ELC needs to be burned because this team is also short of top 9 forward depth. I just don't think it makes all that much sense to go all-in once again, there's no guarantee it gets us any better than 1st or 2nd round elimination.

 

[Kakko]

I don't know if this will be a top tier team. But I'm pretty sure they'll still be playing in April. And in my mind, there's 16 contenders come the playoffs. Maybe we're not quite there yet, but soon enough, the "blow it up" crowd should realize that's not happening

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

I don't know if this will be a top tier team. But I'm pretty sure they'll still be playing in April. And in my mind, there's 16 contenders come the playoffs. Maybe we're not quite there yet, but soon enough, the "blow it up" crowd should realize that's not happening

We are in the playoffs by a point, and tomorrow we might not be in the playoffs.

I think blow it up is a mischaracterization. We aren't Colorado bad or Buffalo bad, but this team could still be in position to miss the playoffs, and if that happens, does it make more sense to keep McDonagh and Zuccarello than to trade them when they'll only have a year left after this season on their contracts? You can make practical decisions like that without trying to get rid of your whole roster. If we aren't going to make the playoffs, Nash, Grabner, Holden all gotta go, and I think they will.

 

[Machinehead]

Considering that 1D might be traded, I am not okay with it because it tells us the rest of our defense isn't that good.

Then let's not f***ing trade our best defenseman.

Seems like a simple idea to me.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

Then let's not ****ing trade our best defenseman.

Seems like a simple idea to me.

Its not simple.

I'm not a McDonagh hater, at all, I defend his game a lot, but there's more to the equation than how good McDonagh is.

If the team is not going to contend the next 2-3 years, can we get more value out of trading him and what will his value be in 2-3 years compared to the value of the players we got in return? How will that value be effected by the big contract he will get after next season?

I'm not trading McDonagh to the highest bidder, I don't think that makes sense. Trade Zucc to the highest bidder, I think we need to get certain things back for McDonagh to be willing to trade him. He'd be one of the best players to be traded in years, so its a bigger consideration than trading Zucc who's a good player, but McDonagh is a different kettle of fish. If we don't get what we want, we re-sign him to a contract that will look bad the last few years, but its not a terrible option either. I don't think there are any terrible options here, McDonagh the first 3-4 years of that contract will be really good, but if we can get Sergachyov from Tampa or Chabot from Ottawa or Liljegren from Toronto, I'd consider trading McDonagh. I'd want more in return, but for us to trade McDonagh, I think it requires getting a young defenseman with first pair potential back in return.

 

[KirkAlbuquerque]

Two statements that would give Don Cherry a stroke.

Don't think grapes had any problem with Americans, they're almost as good as GoCB's in his book. It's those darn Russkies he has a problem with.

 

[Vitto79]

SO who’s a call up if Boo is hurt ? DD likely plays but w McD our there’s no spare

Cracknell I guess

 

[egelband]

Kampfer has his moments too. Some good hits; he uses his speed well. He’s just prone to mental lapses. I prefer him to Staal sometimes (ignoring that the two play different sides on defense)

Me too. Kampfer has been excellent. He brings a well-rounded game. A little of everything. Though no aspect is great he is a good player.

 

[Fvital92]

Its not simple.

I'm not a McDonagh hater, at all, I defend his game a lot, but there's more to the equation than how good McDonagh is.

If the team is not going to contend the next 2-3 years, can we get more value out of trading him and what will his value be in 2-3 years compared to the value of the players we got in return? How will that value be effected by the big contract he will get after next season?

I'm not trading McDonagh to the highest bidder, I don't think that makes sense. Trade Zucc to the highest bidder, I think we need to get certain things back for McDonagh to be willing to trade him. He'd be one of the best players to be traded in years, so its a bigger consideration than trading Zucc who's a good player, but McDonagh is a different kettle of fish. If we don't get what we want, we re-sign him to a contract that will look bad the last few years, but its not a terrible option either. I don't think there are any terrible options here, McDonagh the first 3-4 years of that contract will be really good, but if we can get Sergachyov from Tampa or Chabot from Ottawa or Liljegren from Toronto, I'd consider trading McDonagh. I'd want more in return, but for us to trade McDonagh, I think it requires getting a young defenseman with first pair potential back in return.

You know how this team Works. They will not trade Mcdonagh, Zuccarello is a real possibility though, depending on if we make the playoffs.

 

[Larrybiv]

What else would you call signing the most sought after UFA(Shattenkirk)? Especially when you trade a top 6 home-grown center to fit him in. Kinda fits the MO if you have to ask me lol

Imo, it might fit the "M.O" but essentially receiving a "better?" player for same money is not trying to "buy" a championship. It's just a good decision. Just take a peek at our PP even at the expense of center depth. He's a game changer.

 

[Larrybiv]

Seems like a friendly guy. Not sure if he has the well spokenness of a Valiquette or the charisma of a Trautwig.

Somewhere in between would be fine.

Definitely likable. He just needs to get the jitters out; you could tell he was nervous at first (which is understandable).

Was worse off than Duguay on his first day, as Doogie didn't leave us all with a permanent "memento" lodged in our brains.

 

[Larrybiv]

This is true...he does seem to have the jitters. As I said earlier tho, he still looks like he could kick some major ass....lol

Studio needed tuffness. Bunch of pattycakes.
Needed someone to keep Trauts in line. Heard everyone was fearing Al's right jab coming out from his pocket.

 

[Ola]

So let me see if I got this right. Are you indicating that the Kings demise that was apparently a 100% sure thing just 3 weeks ago according to his detractors and haters, whose names will also remain nameless tho we all know who they are, just might have been a tad premature? Wow....this is a shocking relevation.....

Actually I think the truth is somewhere in between and that it’s important to establish it.

Every player have up and downs, but a top goalie still have a very high low. Hank has demised and he is not capable of just putting out his skates on the ice anymore and stop 0.92 of all shots. If the NHLers participated in the OGs in February, I wouldn’t at all be surprised to see Hank look shaky behind a new defense early on.

With that said, and completely in line with what I wrote back when he struggled the most, can we still hope for him to be able to for example be top notch in a PO series? Yup, and I think that will be the case — to some extent under a curve trending downwards for at least 2-3 more years. But there will also be points where he struggles. It’s also hard to know how well he can hold up put through a heavy workload.

 

[haohmaru]

I'm thinking the old warhorse gets star of the week consideration this week.

 

[Larrybiv]

Bettman era has pretty much devolved the game into arguments about cap hits and Corsi numbers--which is great for those who love stats, graphs and numbers and not so hot for everyone else. IMO the game would have been a lot better off if Gary had decided to be an ambulance chaser instead of a corporate tool.

Bold is very funny.
For me, I am somewhere in between where the game stands now and yesteryear. The game I fell in LOVE with, is but a shell of its original self. This is no secret, and if it is......then Google or you tube Rangers/Flyers or Rangers vs Bruins 1970 games for example. Jeez, I miss those days.
The game has changed, like people change and it's not always for the better. The entertainment value I suppose is still there, but because of the high salaries and investments in such, it's even more of a business than it used to be......which is fine. I get it. But.......when you subtract the "altercations" in which players wish to defend their teammates (and settle it on the ice) but cannot always.......well, I believe it takes away a great deal from what the sport was partially about.
I might be a caveman, but for me......the sport was scoring more goals than your opponent WHILE you rub their face in the ice. Win as a team and lose as a team.

 

[Edge]

Hank is definitely in the zone right now.

It goes back to what we said during the preseason. He's not as good as he was at his peak, but he also wasn't as bad as his low points. I think we talked about saying that Lundqvist at 85-90 percent of his peak can still be an effective goalie. Frankly, he's doing that right now.

With that said, I am curious and concerned about whether he can keep it up over a full season and whether the wheels are going to fall off hard if/when they do.

Hank's made adjustments, but the league will make adjustments in response.

I'm cautiously optimistic for him, but a big part of getting through an 82 game season is not get too high or too low and you hit hot steaks and cold streaks throughout the year.

 

[Larrybiv]

3 differences in overall play by Hank.

1. Not letting in any of those "questionable\weak" goals.
2. Teammates allowing Hank to see the puck.
3. Forwards covering their man, better team defense.

Hank is trusting his teammates and vice versa. Works hand in hand. Nothing magical about it.

 

[kovazub94]

Zibanejad is probably the best 1C no one in the NHL talks about.

 

[eco's bones]

So you're anti-cap? I mean, I think the cap in part has saved the Rangers from the dark ages. And probably saved some teams from relocation.

And what does Bettman have to do with Corsi? No matter what style of play the league had there would be analytics. Analytics is part of every sport. Just as with the business world, analytics is now a reality in sports. I understand how obnoxious it can get to have to read people talk about Corsi every game when it was probably more fun before to analyze based on the eye test but this is the evolution of game and is part of a broader evolution, it has nothing to do with Bettman.

Am I anti-cap? I see good and not so good. I do agree that it helped the Rangers get their house in order. It's interesting how socialism can be made to work for extremely wealthy capitalists (as in the owners)--helping them to grab and secure bigger and bigger pieces of the profit pie.

And I also think the over analyzation of the sport stems from this cap era. Players being judged on any number of factors on whether or not they're underperforming the contracts they've signed. If for instance Staal was making $1.5 mil per instead of $5.7 mil per there wouldn't be nearly as much anger towards him---most posters here I suspect would just simply accept that he's an older declining player who still can perform alright at a bottom pairing level--keeping in mind as well that his NMC is a product of the cap--there wouldn't be all the fuss about trading him either. Before the cap--the money he made would just have been an annoyance for the owner--now the fan is pulled into it too. If Staal wasn't in the top 7 at training camp he might not even be on the team (and I'd argue he wasn't). Either moved or sent down. As he is--$5.7 mil per is a considerable handicap for a guy who can play bottom pair adequately but might not be in our top 7 (Graves? Pionk? DeAngelo?) but again has a guaranteed spot on the team.

You tell me--it ain't f***ing perfect--that's for sure.

 

[Ori]

Zibanejad is probably the best 1C no one in the NHL talks about.

wow really, he is not Stamkos not even close. Maybe that`s why so few mention him especially on TV, and outside of Rangers & Ottawa fans.

 

[Tawnos]

I don’t think we’re seeing a return of the old Hank. I think we’re seeing the emergence of a new Hank.

He’s playing the game differently. The way he’s been positioning himself is very different from years past. He used to play deep in his net to give himself an extra moment to react to shots. Now he’s playing further out, creating more situations where his positioning makes the save rather than his reflexes. That was causing other problems when he was not controlling rebounds well. Now, he is controlling rebounds and the effect of that on his game and the D has been huge.

All older players need to find a way to adjust to where their skills are or their careers are over. Hank seems to be adjusting. Does that mean that he’s the best goalie in the league again? I don’t think so. He’s hot right now. But it does mean that the thing we were worried about being a team weakness until Shestyorkin comes over is less likely to be a problem.

 

[kovazub94]

Other than Bobr there is really no goalie who's head and shoulders above Hank.

 

[PuckLuck3043]

We are in the playoffs by a point, and tomorrow we might not be in the playoffs.

I think blow it up is a mischaracterization. We aren't Colorado bad or Buffalo bad, but this team could still be in position to miss the playoffs, and if that happens, does it make more sense to keep McDonagh and Zuccarello than to trade them when they'll only have a year left after this season on their contracts? You can make practical decisions like that without trying to get rid of your whole roster. If we aren't going to make the playoffs, Nash, Grabner, Holden all gotta go, and I think they will.

Zucc is the heart and soul of this team and if he was traded this team would regret it. McDonagh is going nowhere also. The guy is a 28 year old #1 Dman on this club and you make it seem like he just signed up for medicare. This team is as much as a contender as anybody in the east besides maybe Tampa. They are playing well and no decisions need to be made right now. If JG feels that we are not in a good position a few months from now then I think that both Nash and Grabner can be traded for a significant return.

 

[Tawnos]

Other than Bobr there is really no goalie who's head and shoulders above Hank.

Vasilevskiy is. Also, I think this year is (finally) Hellebuycks coming out party.