Detroit Red Wings 23/24 season thread

[Winger98]

This season hurts so much worse than the absolute drivel we've been subjected to since 2016-17. The fact we went on multiple hot streaks, traded for DBC and signed Patrick Kane really felt like this was the turning point. It felt like everybody was gonna fire on all cylinders and we were going to at least make the first round.

But with the dumpster fire shit show that was December, and it's twin brother March, AND blowing the past few crucial games, this off season feels like it will be longer and more excruciating than the past few.

And it's a f***ing bummer, because this season gave up some of the best highlights we've had since the Datsyuk era. Such as Kanes OT goals against the Avs and Chicago, Raymond turning into an elite winger and Edvinsson finally securing a spot with the big club. But with this collapse, it seems like they're going to just be memories from another blown season.

Sorry for the doom and gloom. It's just been eating at me for a long while now. I wasn't alive during the Dead Wings era, so I know a lot of you know how I feel right now. It sucks.

no need to apologize, dude. I think this season has worn on all of us.

 

[Snuggs]

It takes two to tango.

I think Yzerman refusing to overpay to bring someone in has been a good trait throughout his GM career. It seems the only time you can get a reasonable deal on a true quality guy is when there are issues and they are forcing themselves out as Eichel did in Buffalo. Other than that you're paying multiple 1sts and prospects for guys like Lindholm and Horvat. Which isn't always bad, but I'm not sure track records with those type of deals are that great. And, honestly, I have a lot of faith in Yzerman turning 1sts into quality players.

Though I also have to say that I think dealing Walman is a darkhorse move for this summer. Ed will be stepping into the left side this fall, and AlJo and Wallinder are looking promising. We've also got Maata and Chiarot on the left side, too. Walman could be one of the pieces to fetch a top6 forward.

Well, outside looking in, I'd say we'd need to try before we all the sudden decide to use the "old no one wants to be in DET" motto.

I'm not saying Yzerman won't draft good players either... but a collection of stars or super stars drafted outside of the top 5 or 10 picks... yeah idk, that to me is a stretch. Brayden Point seems to be his anomaly than regular norm. He's had 4 drafts to find someone like him (or even a roster player) and hasn't, Brayden Point wasn't some multi- year system developmental prospect Yzerman found. He was a dude that was drafted late and took 1 year in the WHL and then stepped into the NHL and produced on Stanely cup caliber squad.

 

[theYman]

I kinda feel the same way

 

[ricky0034]

As I recall, prior to the season the majority opinion seemed to be split between "cautiously optimistic we'll snatch a playoff spot" and "we'd better at least be in contention".

Well, we've been in contention.

The late-season collapse was frustrating, and there is clearly plenty left to improve upon, but we've achieved about what was expected, and the trajectory remains on the up.

prior to the season we didn't have Patrick Kane

 

[RRhoads]

prior to the season we didn't have Patrick Kane

Everyone knew we'd be in big trouble if Larkin was out.

 

[Axel Sandy Pelikan]

I kinda feel the same way

I think it's nonsense. You can't firebomb him without giving him kudos for the months that got them in position to blow it and still have a chance to win.

I've always been of the opinion that there are a couple dogshit awful coaches and a couple true difference makers. And if you don't have either of those... the coach isn't your problem but instead an easy spacegoat for the things that are actually wrong.

The problem is that everyone who wants to fire Lalonde is taking a year by year look at things and is attributing the six years pre-Yzerman that the Wings were mediocre, kicking the can down the road and loading the roster up with unmovable garbage. So it's 8 years with no playoffs and how dare Lalonde not fix that!

I'm not saying that Yzerman has taken the right path or "trust the Yzerplan" like it's some magical tome of greatness. I'm just saying look at how he's built the roster. He added a couple "stabilizing" presences in Copp, Compher, Chiarot to go along with extending Larkin as long as possible and taking a swing at Alex Debrincat for a discount. The rest? Kane, Perron, Ghost, Petry, etc? They're on 1-2 year deals precisely because that means they won't be here in 24-25 or 25-26 when they're expecting guys like Danielson and Kasper and Mazur, and others.

Again, I probably wouldn't have built the team this way... but you have to look at the signings he's made. As much as it pains to say... these were "if we make the playoffs? That's awesome, but we don't expect it" years. They won't say that... but if you have true playoffs or bust aspirations, you're not selling at last year's deadline nor are you standing pat at this year's.

 

[ricky0034]

Everyone knew we'd be in big trouble if Larkin was out.

I mean assuming he plays the last 3 games he still played 68 out of 82 games this year, that's 83% of the season

and Raymond,DeBrincat, and Seider are all on track to play all 82 games

literally perfect health isn't a reasonable expectation for any team

 

[SantosHalper]

no need to apologize, dude. I think this season has worn on all of us.

"oh, it hasn't been that bad...........

"

 

[RRhoads]

I mean assuming he plays the last 3 games he still played 68 out of 82 games this year, that's 83% of the season

and Raymond,DeBrincat, and Seider are all on track to play all 82 games

literally perfect health isn't a reasonable expectation for any team

I think the expectation was with a fully healthy Larkin. At least that's where mine was.

 

[AussieWings]

This is hindsight 101 and Mr blue skys.

Expectations change, constantly based on the situation and circumstances around you.

While I can look back as a fan and say this was pretty fun, more fun than in years past... It still doesn't take away what's happened late, or make up for it even. It's not... "ok", to fall like the Red Wings did when they had the position they did.

Collapsing into this position vs grinding this race out like NYI/PIT/WAS are doing actually are two different things and right now Red Wings should not be celebrated unless they do something like pull off three straight wins.

We could have celebrated them, and forgiven all, they just had to win vs WSH/PIT and they didn't. Now, imo, they have to win 3 straight.

I understand where you're coming from. I'm not saying the team should be sitting around congratulating themselves on a job well done for meeting pre-season expectations. The things that have gone wrong show us that there is still plenty to improve on. So, lets go keep improving.

For myself, I look to next season and think if the team improves roughly as much next season as we did this, then we're looking pretty good. I think even the highest of expectations this season didn't see us making it past the first round of the playoffs. The bar should be higher next year, and I will certainly be looking for more than just scraping in and quickly exiting.

In the end though, I'm very strong believer in not letting the failure of a sports team affect me negatively. I would much rather enjoy the highs and brush off the lows; it's just not worth feeling real stress or anger over this stuff for more than a brief period.

 

[Axel Sandy Pelikan]

I don't understand it.

Every team except NYI (who are now almost out of reach to catch) and Pitt (7-0-3 before tonight in their last ten) have been scuffling the same way.

Philly tanked out of a solid spot. Washington is not making up much ground.

Every team is scuffling and shitting bricks on the way down the line.

 

[GarlicbreadTB]

Thank f*** we weren't the team who got suckered to go for Erik karlsson.

 

[Oddbob]

Agreed. Ultimately Yzerman has his own timeline, and no amount of me yelling at clouds will change anything.

But we're 6 days from it officially being 5 years since he was hired. So for me as a fan, one of two things needs to happen NOW:

Option 1) Going forward, results on the ice actually matter. The roster continues to improve, it's a stated expectation to make the playoffs, and all players and coaches are held to a higher standard and held accountable when they don't meet that standard.

Option 2) Next year is still a placeholder. No matter what the roster looks like, the glacier keeps moving slower than molasses in January, and it's more of the Gee Whiz routine for whether they actually play winning hockey.

Like I said, I have zero control over whether they pursue 1 or 2. But if it's 2, then I go back to not watching until they're ready to choose Option 1. Because regardless of how bright the future may or may not look, the entertaining parts of this season have made the home stretch all the more UN-entertaining, so either the existing product gets noticeably better, or I'll find a better ROI for my time until it does.

We're five years in, Steve. Your move.

5 years in doesn't even make mean much, as he spent the first 2-3 years getting out from all the crap Holland left him. To me, the real Yzerman touches started his 3rd season in. No other GM has us in a better spot with what Holland left here. Giving a GM 5 years to turn a crap ship around is not enough, no matter who it is.

 

[Oddbob]

You know dang well, Yzerman, ownership, fans, etc, they're not willing to pay up for top talent. I agree with you, the team can buy low only for so long and get lucky with forced trades like Debrincat's but... they need to go out and pay up for talent.

Or

They need to just reboot the whole thing, new coach, cap dumps/trades, major trades(Larkin/Debrincat/Walman). Rebuild 2.0 (around Seider/Edvinsson/Raymond/Cossa)I can buy more than muddling along into another 11-16 pick next year with the same problem, again.

What players of major talent were available that a) wanted to come here and b) are major upgrades to the Wings? Not saying Chris Illitch will spend when it is time, but since Yzerman took over there hasn't been any major players we missed out on. This season for example, people were all over Hanifin and he wanted VGK, TB and a few others, not Detroit, same with a lot of UFAs right now.

Well, outside looking in, I'd say we'd need to try before we all the sudden decide to use the "old no one wants to be in DET" motto.

I'm not saying Yzerman won't draft good players either... but a collection of stars or super stars drafted outside of the top 5 or 10 picks... yeah idk, that to me is a stretch. Brayden Point seems to be his anomaly than regular norm. He's had 4 drafts to find someone like him (or even a roster player) and hasn't, Brayden Point wasn't some multi- year system developmental prospect Yzerman found. He was a dude that was drafted late and took 1 year in the WHL and then stepped into the NHL and produced on Stanely cup caliber squad.

So Yzerman has a crystal ball on which prospects turn out great and how quickly?

 

[jkutswings]

5 years in doesn't even make mean much, as he spent the first 2-3 years getting out from all the crap Holland left him. To me, the real Yzerman touches started his 3rd season in. No other GM has us in a better spot with what Holland left here. Giving a GM 5 years to turn a crap ship around is not enough, no matter who it is.

I did a study awhile ago, looking at the last 20 Cups or so and seeing how long it took from when core players were drafted until said players won their first championship. It was 6-8 years. So no, it's actually not unreasonable to expect a team to start MAKING the playoffs after 5 years, because GMs that get it right tend to do that.

As for the topic of knowing what players are available and willing to come to Detroit to improve the roster, I don't have to have that answer because I'm not the one who was hired to fix this team. Yzerman was my favorite player and he's one of the better general managers in the game, so I'm simply holding him to the high standard he's created for himself.

Do better. Be better. He's had five years to undo the mess that Holland left him and get the roster to where they're right there to make the playoffs. Good. So going forward, the expectations keep increasing.

 

[Oddbob]

I did a study awhile ago, looking at the last 20 Cups or so and seeing how long it took from when core players were drafted until said players won their first championship. It was 6-8 years. So no, it's actually not unreasonable to expect a team to start MAKING the playoffs after 5 years, because GMs that get it right tend to do that.

As for the topic of knowing what players are available and willing to come to Detroit to improve the roster, I don't have to have that answer because I'm not the one who was hired to fix this team. Yzerman was my favorite player and he's one of the better general managers in the game, so I'm simply holding him to the high standard he's created for himself.

Do better. Be better. He's had five years to undo the mess that Holland left him and get the roster to where they're right there to make the playoffs. Good. So going forward, the expectations keep increasing.

Most of those GMs either inherited much better teams, or got much better draft luck than Yzerman has had. Pitt and Chi are 5 of those Cups and they had far better draft luck than we have had, plus Pitt got lucky in the Crosby draft where every team had close to the same odds to get him. Most of the prospects Yzerman inherited from Holland also did nothing to help our situation, and that isn't on Yzerman. 2 of the better ones were Mantha and AA for example and look how they have done since leaving. Hronek is the only one really that left that is doing well, so Yzerman had little to work with. The rest are fringe or nothing players.

Also, we are better than we were. Last year we were well out by now, and the year before even further out. Fans are the only ones who turned this season into playoffs or bust, not Wings management. We all wish we were better, but it is the way it is, and I 100% believe no other GM has us in any better spot right now.

 

[jkutswings]

Fans are the only ones who turned this season into playoffs or bust, not Wings management.

Of course management isn't going to throw themselves on the sword. That doesn't stop fans from expecting a product that's worth their time.

We all wish we were better, but it is the way it is, and I 100% believe no other GM has us in any better spot right now.

No. THIS general manager would have us in a better spot if he would have held his own coaching staff more accountable. 1) After the awful stretch in December he should've taken Lalonde to task and said use your damn timeouts to steady the ship when needed. 2) After the awful March stretch he should've said either make the playoffs or you're fired.

It's not an either/or. I can both appreciate the job Yzerman has done with the awful roster he inherited, and say that after five years it's no longer the right move to continue slow playing the rebuild (at least THIS slowly). Demanding excellence doesn't mean that this roster wins the Cup this year. It's that if you have the talent to at least make the playoffs, and a 10 point cushion for doing so when you're 75 percent into the season, you damn well finish the job and not choke it away.

 

[Oddbob]

Of course management isn't going to throw themselves on the sword. That doesn't stop fans from expecting a product that's worth their time.


No. THIS general manager would have us in a better spot if he would have held his own coaching staff more accountable. 1) After the awful stretch in December he should've taken Lalonde to task and said use your damn timeouts to steady the ship when needed. 2) After the awful March stretch he should've said either make the playoffs or you're fired.

It's not an either/or. I can both appreciate the job Yzerman has done with the awful roster he inherited, and say that after five years it's no longer the right move to continue slow playing the rebuild (at least THIS slowly). Demanding excellence doesn't mean that this roster wins the Cup this year. It's that if you have the talent to at least make the playoffs, and a 10 point cushion for doing so when you're 75 percent into the season, you damn well finish the job and not choke it away.

I am no fan of Lalonde and am fine if he gets fired, but if his job was to have them competitive with this roster until the end of the season, then he did his job. We only know what Steve said the teams ambitions were this season, and it seems the team is about where he thought they would be. Perhaps adding Kane made him rethink that, I don't know. The timeout thing is an I don't know kind of thing, as lots of times timeouts do nothing. The reality is this team starts every game largely very slowly, so that can be on the coach, and to me is the much bigger issue.

I wanted playoffs too, but I am more annoyed that we don't have more kids in the lineup. I would rather be 10-15 pts worse in the standings, but it was kids learning along the way and being the main contributors. Being where we are with Copp/Compher types being a good chunk of our performance has left me not that excited about our season. That said, I still think Yzerman and any gm for that matter get a really long leash when they inherit the crap that Yzerman got when he came here. GMs in general need longer leashes because it takes a long time for a GM to come and make the team what they think it will be. 5 years is not that long for a bottom feeding team that started with many bad contracts and about 2-3 good NHL players on it.

I also agree that it is annoying that we blew a good spot in the standings, but to me, I thought we were punching above our weight all year to that point as teams like NJ and Pitt and NYI played really poorly and much worse than expected for especially the Isles and Devils. Had Lyon not played well above what was expected we would be bottom 7ish or so this season. Also, Larkin being so important to our team needs to be addressed in the offseason. When he doesn't play we are complete garbage, and while losing your top guy of course will hurt, the rest of the team needs to step up and we see now, we have almost no drivers aside from Larkin. Raymond looks like he is getting there, but really no one else.

 

[Snuggs]

What players of major talent were available that a) wanted to come here and b) are major upgrades to the Wings? Not saying Chris Illitch will spend when it is time, but since Yzerman took over there hasn't been any major players we missed out on. This season for example, people were all over Hanifin and he wanted VGK, TB and a few others, not Detroit, same with a lot of UFAs right now.



So Yzerman has a crystal ball on which prospects turn out great and how quickly?

No see. I'm a fan, those questions aren't fair for me. There could or could not have been conversations and we'll never know about answering those. It's not my job or yours even to figure any of that out. It's Yzerman's job to go out and be Yzerman, be special. An when he's not, when things are average, I'm aloud to point that out. You are giving excuses for not going out and getting talent when you aren't even sure you have the right excuse. Maybe Yzerman's straight up not tried to sign a big name or trade making those two questions above mean nothing. Question B is total personal too so who cares what I think. I'm not going to name a ton of names and numbers that you'll want to disagree with just so you can pick it apart but I will just say this one name.

A 25-year-old Jack Eichel was traded and Red Wings weren't mentioned one bit. That's an issue to me... Idk if you have to get him even but it's concerning to me Yzerman/Red Wings seemly never even try and might not be a big deal to others but guys like him just don't get traded often. There are others too who aren't maybe as significantly talented but would be more talented than Copp/Compher.

I'm not saying he should be fired by ANYMEANS so don't paint me in that picture, but outside of the gift horse both DeBrincat/Kane were this offseason I'm not seeing Yzerman pull in this amazing talent outside of just drafting and signing veterans. Like Walman, Fabbri, Husso, those nifty move's but not exactly going out and getting top talent. (Guys that belong on most team's 1st line).

Understand this business motto of this franchise(and the Tigers) is... to sell you a long-term rebuild with very low expectations. I could give you the GM job, literally and if you got a 10 year leash you might actually draft a couple stars in that time yourself but Yzerman, imo, was brought in to do more, faster, and better.

 

[jkutswings]

No see. I'm a fan, those questions aren't fair for me. There could or could not have been conversations and we'll never know about answering those. It's not my job or yours even to figure any of that out. It's Yzerman's job to go out and be Yzerman, be special. An when he's not, when things are average, I'm aloud to point that out. You are giving excuses for not going out and getting talent when you aren't even sure you have the right excuse. Maybe Yzerman's straight up not tried to sign a big name or trade making those two questions above mean nothing. Question B is total personal too so who cares what I think. I'm not going to name a ton of names and numbers that you'll want to disagree with just so you can pick it apart but I will just say this one name.

A 25-year-old Jack Eichel was traded and Red Wings weren't mentioned one bit. That's an issue to me... Idk if you have to get him even but it's concerning to me Yzerman/Red Wings seemly never even try and might not be a big deal to others but guys like him just don't get traded often. There are others too who aren't maybe as significantly talented but would be more talented than Copp/Compher.

I'm not saying he should be fired by ANYMEANS so don't paint me in that picture, but outside of the gift horse both DeBrincat/Kane were this offseason I'm not seeing Yzerman pull in this amazing talent outside of just drafting and signing veterans. Like Walman, Fabbri, Husso, those nifty move's but not exactly going out and getting top talent. (Guys that belong on most team's 1st line).

Understand this business motto of this franchise(and the Tigers) is... to sell you a long-term rebuild with very low expectations. I could give you the GM job, literally and if you got a 10 year leash you might actually draft a couple stars in that time yourself but Yzerman, imo, was brought in to do more, faster, and better.

Yeah, I don't understand why it's unacceptable to just 1) acknowledge that the rebuild has graduated from being a cellar dweller that hoards picks to being a bubble team, and 2) expect said rebuild to take the next logical step, along with an adjustment of strategy.

Nobody is saying to toss multiple first rounders at Washington to rent Grandpa Ovechkin for a year or two. But supplement the drafted kids with another couple of moves for very good established talent.

I'd argue that the unreasonable approach is to assume that other than the Debrincat trade, all is the final product will come from the draft. You improve your odds by turning over every rock you can and using every path available.

 

[Axel Sandy Pelikan]

No see. I'm a fan, those questions aren't fair for me. There could or could not have been conversations and we'll never know about answering those. It's not my job or yours even to figure any of that out. It's Yzerman's job to go out and be Yzerman, be special. An when he's not, when things are average, I'm aloud to point that out. You are giving excuses for not going out and getting talent when you aren't even sure you have the right excuse. Maybe Yzerman's straight up not tried to sign a big name or trade making those two questions above mean nothing. Question B is total personal too so who cares what I think. I'm not going to name a ton of names and numbers that you'll want to disagree with just so you can pick it apart but I will just say this one name.

A 25-year-old Jack Eichel was traded and Red Wings weren't mentioned one bit. That's an issue to me... Idk if you have to get him even but it's concerning to me Yzerman/Red Wings seemly never even try and might not be a big deal to others but guys like him just don't get traded often. There are others too who aren't maybe as significantly talented but would be more talented than Copp/Compher.

I'm not saying he should be fired by ANYMEANS so don't paint me in that picture, but outside of the gift horse both DeBrincat/Kane were this offseason I'm not seeing Yzerman pull in this amazing talent outside of just drafting and signing veterans. Like Walman, Fabbri, Husso, those nifty move's but not exactly going out and getting top talent. (Guys that belong on most team's 1st line).

Understand this business motto of this franchise(and the Tigers) is... to sell you a long-term rebuild with very low expectations. I could give you the GM job, literally and if you got a 10 year leash you might actually draft a couple stars in that time yourself but Yzerman, imo, was brought in to do more, faster, and better.

And? 25 year old Jack Eichel was traded for pieces that Detroit didn't have to surrender, is playing at the exact same level as Dylan Larkin while making 2M more per year (with people bitching that Larkin was overpaid or not being a true 1C)... while also coming off of a nasty, nasty, nasty neck injury.

Seems a weird trade to get annoyed about. Yzerman isn't a magician who can wave a magic wand and add great pieces. Nobody is. He didn't wave a wand and fix Tampa. He brought in guys like Callahan and Roloson and other vets to insulate young players he picked up later in the draft and stubbornly held his ground on negotiations to either keep Jonathan Drouin long enough to get Sergachev for him OR get Steven Stamkos to take less money to stay.

My problem is that people always put these arbitrary timelines on things and scream bloody murder when they're not met... even when you can see the demonstrable progress taking place. Like I said either earlier in this topic or in another related one... Jim Harbaugh at Michigan. He was brought in to do it "more, faster, better" and got screwed out of playing for the Big Ten title in 2016. Then, when he hadn't won a championship by 2019, people were calling for his job. But then you get post COVID and it's CFP, CFP, Championship.

Same thing with Yzerman. The way you guys are reacting... if we were in Tampa, you'd have been calling for his head by the end of 12-13

 

[Snuggs]

And? 25 year old Jack Eichel was traded for pieces that Detroit didn't have to surrender, is playing at the exact same level as Dylan Larkin while making 2M more per year (with people bitching that Larkin was overpaid or not being a true 1C)... while also coming off of a nasty, nasty, nasty neck injury.

Seems a weird trade to get annoyed about. Yzerman isn't a magician who can wave a magic wand and add great pieces. Nobody is. He didn't wave a wand and fix Tampa. He brought in guys like Callahan and Roloson and other vets to insulate young players he picked up later in the draft and stubbornly held his ground on negotiations to either keep Jonathan Drouin long enough to get Sergachev for him OR get Steven Stamkos to take less money to stay.

My problem is that people always put these arbitrary timelines on things and scream bloody murder when they're not met... even when you can see the demonstrable progress taking place. Like I said either earlier in this topic or in another related one... Jim Harbaugh at Michigan. He was brought in to do it "more, faster, better" and got screwed out of playing for the Big Ten title in 2016. Then, when he hadn't won a championship by 2019, people were calling for his job. But then you get post COVID and it's CFP, CFP, Championship.

Same thing with Yzerman. The way you guys are reacting... if we were in Tampa, you'd have been calling for his head by the end of 12-13

1. You are being a hypocrite.
2. Listening to the talking heads on the radio is a bad argument starting point. It's not your orginal thought we all hear the radio if you drive. Don't bring Jim Harbaugh into this either... who 1 always had good teams and then cheated and also gets a new team every other year. Not apples to apples.
3. Not true, with Tampa. Way less time and he just fired an inherited coach. Again, not apples to apples.

Is Jack Eichel worth more than Compher/Copp right now? Idk, it's impossible to say if we could or couldn't have pulled that trade off, asking if it's worth it is fair, but just assume we did. I like building around Larkin/Eichel better than what we have now. He had a neck injury, true, but the issue was always about surgery or not, and Teams actually have the final say over surgery. That lead to him wanting to leave more than anything in Buffalo. (Allegedly.) It sounds so simple back basically Buffalo medical staff said no surgery needed we know beset, Eichel's side said different, Vegas agreed to the trade allowing Eichel to proceed with the surgery and injury the way HE wanted. Guys like him only become available for reasons like this or force outs.

Idk if I see a scenario now where Red Wings can get a player like that period.

 

[raymond23]

Buffalo was not going to trade Eichel to any team in the east, let alone a team in the same division on the same timeline

 

[Winger98]

Buffalo was not going to trade Eichel to any team in the east, let alone a team in the same division on the same timeline

Yeah, I have a hard time seeing Buffalo dealing Eichel to us for anything outside of a massive overpayment. And I'd also be willing to wager Yzerman kicked the tires on it to see what said overpayment would look like and said, "no thanks."

 

[Dotter]

I did a study awhile ago, looking at the last 20 Cups or so and seeing how long it took from when core players were drafted until said players won their first championship. It was 6-8 years. So no, it's actually not unreasonable to expect a team to start MAKING the playoffs after 5 years, because GMs that get it right tend to do that.

That is not true at all.

Ovechkin drafted 2004. Won the cup in 2018 = 14 years
Stamkos drafted 2008. Won the cup 2020 = 12 years
Landeskog drafted 2011. Won the cup 2022 = 11 years (actually 13 years)

Avalanche are an interesting situation because they started tanking before the Landeskog pick. Matt Duchene was drafted in 2009. He was traded in 2017, and the assets he returned was for players that helped win the cup in 2022.

St. Louis Blues are the outlier. So I didn't use them as an example. Vegas were an expansion team so they are nulled in the discussion.