Detroit Red Wings 23/24 season thread

[Big Poppa Puck]

Going 11 and 7 makes more sense than calling up a warm body like Aston-Reese.

 

[Ulysses31]

think 1 of lalondes greatest failures is getting nothing out of berggren. Imo berggren showed last yr he a tatar or nyquist lvl talent n 1 was of best players at creating offense away from larkin.

drw has enuff two-way forwards IMo that they could have insulated berggren on a 3rd line with likes of copp, rasmussen etc

 

[RED WINGS STOMP]

At least we have Lucas Raymond's level up as a positive to the season. Thanks for the stellar effort tonight.

 

[RRhoads]

Debrincat might not be scoring goals, but he's making a lot of great plays.

 

[Ulysses31]

also can understand why people get frusterated with "mojo" veleno, can shows flasshes of being a good 2c/3c but then goes cold for weeks/months at a time

 

[Henkka]

also can understand why people get frusterated with "mojo" veleno, can shows flasshes of being a good 2c/3c but then goes cold for weeks/months at a time

Imo, Veleno is the guy out from this roster next. Berggren will take his spot at next season.

Joe Veleno hasn't really developed any special skill. No faceoff guy, no PP guy, no PK guy. No regular center.

Just meh at everything. Also production is from the weakest end.

Guy is still young and maybe he goes out in some trade package. San Jose, is that you?

 

[dragonballgtz]

Can we lose out the rest of the season and have a shot at 1st overall at the draft? If yes, then you know... I might prefer that plan.

 

[Redwing66]

Our team overall is still very average - middle of the road. We have too many supporting cast characters that go for long stretches of unproductivity and veterans that are uninspiring. Was happy they finally brought Edvinsson up but too little too late. I keep hearing how solid our minors are but must suffer watching Czarnik and Aston-Reese when we need a forward called active, just horrid. This year was a step up - not sure we can wait 2-3 years for ASP, Danielson, Kasper and others to develop.

 

[Snuggs]

Heard at the TDL anyone brought up from the AHL was just as good as a trade acquisition.

Hard to believe that when I'm watching Czarnik play in 2 of the most important games for the Red Wings in the last idk, 15 years? Top it off with Aston-Reese dressed for one...

But the organization was/is just happy to be in the race, cause, well it's good for business. They didn't ever imagine actually being here if you listen to Lalonde speak. Which, btw, what a F'ing loser.

I think the team takes a significant step backwards next year and loses talent vs gets it. (Kane/Gotisbehere/Sprong all leave).

 

[Mister Ed]

Czarnik ain't helping. He's whiffing on shots in the crease, getting pushed around, having ill-timed giveaways and although he's only playing 8:30 a game, is affecting it negatively.

ZAR at least has some size, had some shots and wasn't a net-negative player. Send Czarnik down and bring up Soderblom or Mazur to add some offense to the bottom-6.

 

[LongTimeDRWF]

Czarnik ain't helping. He's whiffing on shots in the crease, getting pushed around, having ill-timed giveaways and although he's only playing 8:30 a game, is affecting it negatively.

ZAR at least has some size, had some shots and wasn't a net-negative player. Send Czarnik down and bring up Soderblom or Mazur to add some offense to the bottom-6.

Elmer can play 4 more games and still be Calder Trophy eligible, only 3 games left and 1 call up left, it would be nice, especially with Moose and Copp out, they could use some size for the last few games.

 

[norrisnick]

Elmer can play 4 more games and still be Calder Trophy eligible, only 3 games left and 1 call up left, it would be nice, especially with Moose and Copp out, they could use some size for the last few games.

If they want "size" the best call up would be Kasper. He plays significantly bigger than Soderblom.

 

[lilidk]

also can understand why people get frusterated with "mojo" veleno, can shows flasshes of being a good 2c/3c but then goes cold for weeks/months at a time

He is paying and play like fourth line player, we should not expect much from him

 

[LongTimeDRWF]

If they want "size" the best call up would be Kasper. He plays significantly bigger than Soderblom.

True enough, but they could bubble wrap Elmer and sit him in front of the net on the PP, he might get knocked over and squash the goalie, not so sure Kasper wouldn't just bounce off.

250 pounds of 10-ply still is 250 pounds to move, FFS Cat plays a heavier game than Elmer, but he can't sit in front of the net and consume a D-man or two, let alone cause an eclipse on the goalie vision, the wings need something new to apply as they are being scouted out of the rink on the road.

To counter the coach, more looks of the same stuff other teams are prepared for will not likely bring in better results, only better stats other than shooting percentage.

I really don't care which gets inserted, but they need a different angle or two in offensive creativity that they seem to have lost since the arrival of Kane. As much as Kane has added an element of stability, too many of the players I think are tailoring their game to suit his style, and not what works for them.

The book is out on their current style of play, they need to introduce some change in their approach while they can for road games as losing matchups is showing.

 

[Gniwder]

think 1 of lalondes greatest failures is getting nothing out of berggren. Imo berggren showed last yr he a tatar or nyquist lvl talent n 1 was of best players at creating offense away from larkin.

drw has enuff two-way forwards IMo that they could have insulated berggren on a 3rd line with likes of copp, rasmussen etc

Insulating Burger makes him useless, he's not a one man sniper like Vrana or to a lesser extent Sprong. Burger needs a scoring winger on the other side. Copp makes everyone useless, and Raz is more of a grinder.

Imo, Veleno is the guy out from this roster next. Berggren will take his spot at next season.

Oddly, Burger plays well with Joey. Perron and Sprong will be gone, Burger will take Sprong's spot since he's Sprong V2.0 anyways. They just need a scoring winger on the other side. Let Perron go and sign someone younger.

 

[Ulysses31]

Insulating Burger makes him useless, he's not a one man sniper like Vrana or to a lesser extent Sprong. Burger needs a scoring winger on the other side. Copp makes everyone useless, and Raz is more of a grinder.


Oddly, Burger plays well with Joey. Perron and Sprong will be gone, Burger will take Sprong's spot since he's Sprong V2.0 anyways. They just need a scoring winger on the other side. Let Perron go and sign someone younger.

well agree to disagree. mixing and matching players of diff play styles and with diff strengths and weaknesses is part of what coaches and teams do.

 

[Gniwder]

well agree to disagree. mixing and matching players of diff play styles and with diff strengths and weaknesses is part of what coaches and teams do.

Sometimes it works if the players are complimentary, and other times it never gels. However, Copp isn't the solution for a struggling player, and I don't see Raz being able to take advantage of Burger's playmaking abilities. Out of the 3, Joey is the only one that can actually shoot from more than 10 ft outside the crease, he just doesn't do it often enough.

Ideally, Burger gets to play with someone of a higher caliber. Maybe Compher?

 

[redwings8831]

 

[AussieWings]

As I recall, prior to the season the majority opinion seemed to be split between "cautiously optimistic we'll snatch a playoff spot" and "we'd better at least be in contention".

Well, we've been in contention.

The late-season collapse was frustrating, and there is clearly plenty left to improve upon, but we've achieved about what was expected, and the trajectory remains on the up.

 

[jkutswings]

Our team overall is still very average - middle of the road. We have too many supporting cast characters that go for long stretches of unproductivity and veterans that are uninspiring. Was happy they finally brought Edvinsson up but too little too late. I keep hearing how solid our minors are but must suffer watching Czarnik and Aston-Reese when we need a forward called active, just horrid. This year was a step up - not sure we can wait 2-3 years for ASP, Danielson, Kasper and others to develop.

Agreed. Ultimately Yzerman has his own timeline, and no amount of me yelling at clouds will change anything.

But we're 6 days from it officially being 5 years since he was hired. So for me as a fan, one of two things needs to happen NOW:

Option 1) Going forward, results on the ice actually matter. The roster continues to improve, it's a stated expectation to make the playoffs, and all players and coaches are held to a higher standard and held accountable when they don't meet that standard.

Option 2) Next year is still a placeholder. No matter what the roster looks like, the glacier keeps moving slower than molasses in January, and it's more of the Gee Whiz routine for whether they actually play winning hockey.

Like I said, I have zero control over whether they pursue 1 or 2. But if it's 2, then I go back to not watching until they're ready to choose Option 1. Because regardless of how bright the future may or may not look, the entertaining parts of this season have made the home stretch all the more UN-entertaining, so either the existing product gets noticeably better, or I'll find a better ROI for my time until it does.

We're five years in, Steve. Your move.

 

[Snuggs]

As I recall, prior to the season the majority opinion seemed to be split between "cautiously optimistic we'll snatch a playoff spot" and "we'd better at least be in contention".

Well, we've been in contention.

The late-season collapse was frustrating, and there is clearly plenty left to improve upon, but we've achieved about what was expected, and the trajectory remains on the up.

This is hindsight 101 and Mr blue skys.

Expectations change, constantly based on the situation and circumstances around you.

While I can look back as a fan and say this was pretty fun, more fun than in years past... It still doesn't take away what's happened late, or make up for it even. It's not... "ok", to fall like the Red Wings did when they had the position they did.

Collapsing into this position vs grinding this race out like NYI/PIT/WAS are doing actually are two different things and right now Red Wings should not be celebrated unless they do something like pull off three straight wins.

We could have celebrated them, and forgiven all, they just had to win vs WSH/PIT and they didn't. Now, imo, they have to win 3 straight.

 

[jkutswings]

Collapsing into this position vs grinding this race out like NYI/PIT/WAS are doing actually are two different things and right now Red Wings should not be celebrated unless they do something like pull of three straight wins.

And this off-season should reflect that the home stretch of this season was neither good enough nor acceptable. Keep building, keep shaking things up, and going forward it's an outright expectation of playoffs every year.

 

[Snuggs]

And this off-season should reflect that the home stretch of this season was neither good enough nor acceptable. Keep building, keep shaking things up, and going forward it's an outright expectation of playoffs every year.

You know dang well, Yzerman, ownership, fans, etc, they're not willing to pay up for top talent. I agree with you, the team can buy low only for so long and get lucky with forced trades like Debrincat's but... they need to go out and pay up for talent.

Or

They need to just reboot the whole thing, new coach, cap dumps/trades, major trades(Larkin/Debrincat/Walman). Rebuild 2.0 (around Seider/Edvinsson/Raymond/Cossa)I can buy more than muddling along into another 11-16 pick next year with the same problem, again.

 

[JohanFranzenstein]

This season hurts so much worse than the absolute drivel we've been subjected to since 2016-17. The fact we went on multiple hot streaks, traded for DBC and signed Patrick Kane really felt like this was the turning point. It felt like everybody was gonna fire on all cylinders and we were going to at least make the first round.

But with the dumpster fire shit show that was December, and it's twin brother March, AND blowing the past few crucial games, this off season feels like it will be longer and more excruciating than the past few.

And it's a f***ing bummer, because this season gave up some of the best highlights we've had since the Datsyuk era. Such as Kanes OT goals against the Avs and Chicago, Raymond turning into an elite winger and Edvinsson finally securing a spot with the big club. But with this collapse, it seems like they're going to just be memories from another blown season.

Sorry for the doom and gloom. It's just been eating at me for a long while now. I wasn't alive during the Dead Wings era, so I know a lot of you know how I feel right now. It sucks.

 

[Winger98]

You know dang well, Yzerman, ownership, fans, etc, they're not willing to pay up for top talent. I agree with you, the team can buy low only for so long and get lucky with forced trades like Debrincat's but... they need to go out and pay up for talent.

Or

They need to just reboot the whole thing, new coach, cap dumps/trades, major trades(Larkin/Debrincat/Walman). Rebuild 2.0 (around Seider/Edvinsson/Raymond/Cossa)I can buy more than muddling along into another 11-16 pick next year with the same problem, again.

It takes two to tango.

I think Yzerman refusing to overpay to bring someone in has been a good trait throughout his GM career. It seems the only time you can get a reasonable deal on a true quality guy is when there are issues and they are forcing themselves out as Eichel did in Buffalo. Other than that you're paying multiple 1sts and prospects for guys like Lindholm and Horvat. Which isn't always bad, but I'm not sure track records with those type of deals are that great. And, honestly, I have a lot of faith in Yzerman turning 1sts into quality players.

Though I also have to say that I think dealing Walman is a darkhorse move for this summer. Ed will be stepping into the left side this fall, and AlJo and Wallinder are looking promising. We've also got Maata and Chiarot on the left side, too. Walman could be one of the pieces to fetch a top6 forward.