Ice Mammoth
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- Mar 14, 2021
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Proposal: Detroit is changing players?
- Thread starter Ice Mammoth
- Start date
Taytro
Registered User
To summarize OP: Detroit is doing better than last year but still not good enough to make a cup run. I think they should still be sellers to gain assets for the future and a better draft position. Almost everyone is available if the other team offers an overpayment, except the young players that I like. We can also retain 50% when trading these players (maximum of 3 retentions).
What trade possibilities do you think are out there for Detroit to do this?
What trade possibilities do you think are out there for Detroit to do this?
Someone that understands the concept of less is more in many instances.
I’d think Leddy at 50% returns an asset of some value. Someone may toss a decent pick at Detroit for Fabbri.
WingsMJN2965
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Detroit isn't trading Seider/Raymond/Edvinsson/Larkin at all. Bertuzzi isn't tradeable at the moment because his value is way higher than what his vaccine status will allow him to return. (Which I'm glad for, Bertuzzi should absolutely be kept)
Guys like Zadina, Hronek, Veleno, Rasmussen, etc. are the type you package with something, and for Detroit, the likely target would be a top 6 center.
So in all likelihood, the only selling Detroit will be doing is Fabbri, Namestnikov, Greiss and maybe Leddy.
Guys like Zadina, Hronek, Veleno, Rasmussen, etc. are the type you package with something, and for Detroit, the likely target would be a top 6 center.
So in all likelihood, the only selling Detroit will be doing is Fabbri, Namestnikov, Greiss and maybe Leddy.
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Fortune owes Detroit? They made the playoffs for 25 consecutive years and won a cup in 2007. Fortune doesn’t owe Detroit diddly squat.
Ice Mammoth
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WingsMJN2965
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Detroit got there by excellent drafting, not fortune. Fortune has screwed them several times.
... That being said, there's no indication fortune will stop screwing them. And they've continued to overcome it with excellent drafting. Why Holland ever moved away from just trusting Hakan Andersson is beyond me.
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Interesting premise, if you see you're gonna fall short by going all out compete with the roster, hunker down with a few deals that add assets so you are closer to realistically going past minimal compete to actual challenge level of play. A byproduct of these deals is increased possibility of getting a 1OA dif maker.
------------
The Rangers should otherwise be out of this, the exception below notwithstanding.
Of course, we could use Larkin, but while anyone is theoretically available if too much is put on the table, as a practical matter at this pt I think Larkin stays.
Otherwise while DET has some nice baubles, generally do not want to pay a premium for swapping Ranger youth for RedWiug youth.
However, we have to tread lightly salary cap wise until Trouba's nmc expires 2 more seasons from now, unless he waives earlier.
Trouba's primary concern is making his wife happy which is why, to advance her career, he manipulated coming to NYR.
Howev, given she is further along her career path, I suspect a work around may be possible. While she was underqualified earlier, some 3 years hence if Dolan were to cut a 1m tax deduction to ________ medical institution with the provision that Mrs Trouba gets a solid salary etc in her desired field of studies, that could be a functional bypass. Doubtless, DET surely has such a facility or two or three whch qualify. Given this is the midwest, we are close enough for a satellite office to the world famous Mayo Clinic.
Of course, Jacob has to also be a happy camper.
Before going to Rangers, he did say for some reason that DET was ....
[I forget exactly; acceptable alternate; another place he'd consider; something to that effect].
So for all of the above let's assume Trouba to DET is conditionally doable.
Trouba is playing well earning all of the top market 8m per he signed for. Howev, NY now has elc Schneider in the wings and swapping out that level of salary for roster flexibility is desirable if elc or draft can be returned.
Given this you would not think Seider. Nils L is here. Fox then add Nils and Schneid and that is your startig 3.
Howev, if I am overpaying I have to alleviate risk by getting the asset I want in return, or no deal.
Seider is the one who has least risk and high enuf talent to justify the offer.
Fortunately, Nils can play either side, so there is ample room to work him into the lineup on both sides.
the deal
9OA Krav + Trouba + LD Jones [who can play either side and is well regarded but as Fox lite is gonna get traded eventually] + Strome retained + Geo + Hajek + two 2022 4ths [NYR + WPG]
for
Seider + DET 2022 3rd
valuation:
Krav has not had a fair shot, which explains his stunt. Unless until he is here and fails here, he holds 9OA pedigree. This is a guy who has obvious talent, who set KHL record(s), and bonus, has possible pivot potential. We don't now know who the best player in this deal will be, but Krav's actual ability should not be unduly discounted by the politics of the situation stupidly brought about by mgmt.
Seider is 6OA pedigree.
Trouba is solid quality RD replacement now.
Krav won't get here til last month of the season and by then you can create a roster spot for him.
Jones is LD plays either side. He is elc give him mins in the A while team tanks this year for pick.
Strome is your other 23 man roster guy. He is worth early 2nd now and a 1st retained. If DET retains further his value and the return is even more enhanced. He will want 6 or so min at least 4-5 yrs, but I could see Wings flipping him to TOR for 1st + Kerfoot +.
Leafs could get fav son to go team friendly in the 5-5.25 range 4-5 yrs.
Kerfoot is a stopgap who might improve further or could be flipped.
Hajek if a favor.
Famously NY has no room and if waived he is likely taken. This is a kid who for 4 games was all world, then injured his shoulder, which you woud think should not be THAT big a deal. After rehab he is mismanaged. He has adequate size and ability, but has lost ability to assess plays quickly on a regular basis. When he does that he is better than serviceable, but too often he does not. A change into a new system will be good for the kid, can''t hurt and is a throw in freebie.
Geo is a freebie throw in. He has declined, but arguably it is because he gets rusty when he is not playing regular. To drop an old school name, not everybody is/can be Gilles Villemure, a guy who can do a coupla weeks straight if Giacomin is out, or conversely can play only 2-3 games in an entire month. And look like an All Star either way. Some guys need work to stay sharp. Geo at best is that.
So, play him regular, get something for Greiss, and if he sucks that helps w/draft position and if he returns to good form w/regular work, he can also be flipped as a rental.
given the above, 2 4s for a 3rd is not unreasonable.
counter-evaluation?
That wasn’t done with luck though. Falling in every single draft involves luck though (even if we dodged a bullet by not getting Hughes/Laf)
It’s always so much text just for you to always get the same response : your proposals suck.
Hint: when you’re asking for Seider, then the centrepiece coming from you can’t be F’king Kravtsov
Counter evaluation?
Kravtsov: 9oa pick who still couldn’t make the NHL and takes his toys and goes home when he doesn’t get his way. Has not shown he’s good in the NHL yet
Trouba: vastly overpaid top 4D
Hajek: #7D
Strome: not staying on our team, maybe worth a late 1st
Everyone else: Keep them, we have like 20 better prospects
Seider: 6oa who’s performing like an elite 1st overall prospect.
Get out of here
Ghost of Ethan Hunt
The Official Ghost of Space Ghosts Monkey
I'd add that the Wings are ranked 23rd in Win%, (not "19th") which is what the draft order is predicated on.
...19th by pts, sure.
With so many unproved/young prospects in group 3, only a trade of similarly slotted prospect(s) is advisable. For example, Rasmussen.
...19th by pts, sure.
With so many unproved/young prospects in group 3, only a trade of similarly slotted prospect(s) is advisable. For example, Rasmussen.
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It’s always so much text just for you to always get the same response : your proposals suck.
Hint: when you’re asking for Seider, then the centrepiece coming from you can’t be F’king Kravtsov
your response, lacking any objectivity or depth, speaks for itself.
Hint,
you ignored my point about Krav, which was yr bad.
Until Krav demonstrates failure at NHL level with legit chance to play --- not 20 games on the effin 4th line --- then his 9OA credentials are still good.
Your attempt to misrepresent that to drive the price down is rebuffed, and = epic fail.
Krav by his lonesome IS clearly signif majority portion of Seider ability. It is NOTclear who will eventually be best one in this deal -- Seider, Krav or Jones.
If it were not for Trouba's 8m exacerbated by the fact we had to go mega on Zib and Fox after almost max to breadman, I would not have suggested this overpay for elc Seider and gone to plan B.
btw,
vocabularly is your friend.
and using them connected in concepts ..... awesome.
Let's see if you can come up with any clever retort besides 'suck'.
Can’t tell who’s the best out of Kravtsov, Jones and Seider?
That’s enough for me, I’ll let someone else waste their time
How about the rest of us back out of this conversation and let Mammoth and Bern go back and forth trying to convince one another why Zadina for Fox or Kravtsov for Seider is a fair deal.
Crazy8oooo
Puck Off!
Your justifications, do not make it so. It's the same in all of your posts. You provide a book explaining why the Rangers are "sacrificing" some magical pieces (their throwaways), in exchange for helping the other team out by taking back their "gamble" (their top prospect(s)). Then, when others say your proposal is awful, you go on to tell them that they're wrong and you're right. It really is the same predictable Bern response in every thread you post in. For once, maybe see that your proposal isn't good for the other team?
Can’t tell who’s the best out of Kravtsov, Jones and Seider?
That’s enough for me, I’ll let someone else waste their time
That is not what I said.
I said it remains to be seen who will eventually have the best career, not who is the most advanced now.
Jones could approach Fox, if he does, that's a discussion.
and like it or not
Krav talent wise is close enough.
Look at the way the draft odds work. In general you’re more likely to drop than you are to win. Regardless. Detroit fans had it very good for a quarter century. Every team goes through the pain of their team being at the bottom, Detroit just got used to that team never bring them. They have some very good pieces atm and shouldnt be at the bottom much longer.
The OP postulated that totality of factors,
incl considering position for top draft pick
could be worth strategic surrender of valued assets now if long term profit could justify
This IS IS IS IS
A HUGE WIN
for Wings.
A solid add to RD
a high prospect for LD who can shift over
and a 9OA F who can potentially be not just top W but a C.
plus other little benes
======
you won't admit this b'c your whole argument is
Seider is 6OA
Krav is a bust
everything else is irrelevant
I'm calling you out.
What I said is true, up to this point.
Krav is NOT a bust he did not get legit shot w/decent talent like that effin ingrate Lias Andersson did -- he actually played meaningful mins w/kreider, Zib, Panarin -- Krav on 4th line did not.
And unless/until K gets his chance and fails, he is NOT a bust
and his value will command at 9OA-ish.
Crazy8oooo
Puck Off!
Case in point...
What Bern says, must be...
Krav may be worth 9oa to you, but most fans of other teams do not agree.
You can keep calling Jones Fox-light, but again, anyone outside of you and a few select Ranger fans, are not buying it.
Trouba is a good player, but nowhere near his contract...which makes his value drop significantly.
Seider, whether a 6oa or 180oa, has exceeded all expectations thus far, since his draft. He's also exceeded expectations at the NHL level to this point. Detroit fans and alike, see him as a future star who holds incredible value. Even you believe that or you wouldn't propose deals for him as you've done.
Take a deep breath and accept that not everything you say is the be all, end all.
What Bern says, must be...
Krav may be worth 9oa to you, but most fans of other teams do not agree.
You can keep calling Jones Fox-light, but again, anyone outside of you and a few select Ranger fans, are not buying it.
Trouba is a good player, but nowhere near his contract...which makes his value drop significantly.
Seider, whether a 6oa or 180oa, has exceeded all expectations thus far, since his draft. He's also exceeded expectations at the NHL level to this point. Detroit fans and alike, see him as a future star who holds incredible value. Even you believe that or you wouldn't propose deals for him as you've done.
Take a deep breath and accept that not everything you say is the be all, end all.
Maurice of Orange
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If Seider continues to improve from what he is now, Seider could be in the conversation for Norris in a year or two.
Moritz Seider does everything well and is an all around defenseman, the defensive part of his game is most impressive for a rookie playing over 22 minutes on average.
Moritz Seider does everything well and is an all around defenseman, the defensive part of his game is most impressive for a rookie playing over 22 minutes on average.
The Red Line
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lmao that bernmeister is the only person who can actually understand the OP.
Ice Mammoth
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