Proposal: Det-NYR

[TkachukNorrisFacts]

Thats like saying Seider has no value bc he doesnt play in the NHL.

Except I want Seider on my team and would offer more than L. Brown + for him.

What about Logan Brown? Do you want him? Because to me if you don't it would be kind of like not wanting Lucas Raymond, just because they're both not established in the NHL yet...

I was thinking he could be had for Lundkvist and a 2nd, but I could maybe be persuaded to knock it down to a third if your persistent because the season is almost starting.

 

[nbwingsfan]

Eastern conference finals and cup appearances arent wasting his prime. Sitting in Detriot for the next 2-5 years is wasting youre prime.

If you think The Wings aren’t going to be a playoff team for 5 more years with some of the prospects we have coming as well as basically 40M$ cap space then not sure what to tell you.

 

[Chalfdiggity3]

I


Once upon a time that kid Daigle from Victorville fooled Ottawa into drafting him pretty high as well.
Does that mean all top 3 picks have minimal value? And could be had for guys with 1-2 years nhl experience?
The logic is flawed in your thinking.
Rundblad was once highly touted himself, but there was a point where he stopped progressing. Your skills can either translate or not.
But in that timeframe you speak of, the Sens would have wanted a haul for Rundblad.
And I’m sure kept the pick to draft Daigle, even though he wound up busting. I’m sure there we offers for that pick that had better players. But you take the prospect because you do your due diligence with the scouting and hopefully the kids skills you take carry over and progress to the next level with proper coaching/ training
It’s not always full proof as we have seen, but playing the law of averages I’d wager Lundkvist and Seider both turn out to be pretty good players in the NHL for a long time.

I wasnt trying to come at you, i was trying to help prove youre point but i was not reading the rest of the convo before entering.

 

[Zarao71]

Ranger fans need to stop trying to ship away guys like Chytil, Lundkvist, Jones etc..
Lets see how these guys perform with a real coach and a full training camp.
Larkin costs about 4 million more than Chytil. Jones is expendable only because he's behind the depth chart of Norris Trophy winner Adam Fox,
and SHL defenseman of the year Nils Lundkvist. Get a grip. Lets see what the these guys can do.

 

[Barnaby]

Chytil-Jones-1st is a god awful trade that does absolutely nothing for Detroit now nor in the future. Larkin isn't a bonafide 1C but can masquerade as a viable one. Even with him, the Wings have atrocious center depth. Just god awful.

Nils Lundkvist and a 1st is a heck of a lot closer... but in this case, we're not even replenishing the meager C depth we already have. Pius Suter who got non-tendered by Chicago becomes our 1C.

Just even by value these trades are awful... without getting into any intrinsic value Larkin has to the Wings for leadership or marketing or whatever else.

Detroit would never agree to that first deal, but I don't think the value is all that bad. I think Chytil will be a good 2C, Jones will play on a 2nd pair, and the 1st in a nice draft.

Nils and a 1st is very fair, but Detroit might want to see Lundkvist in the NHL first as they are in no rush. Of course, that could also backfire if Lundkvist comes out of the gate strong.

I don't think Detroit is shopping Larkin now at all so you'd have to overpay. To me, Lundkvist/1st/Kravstov or Othmann should get it done, but I'm not doing that as the Rangers.

 

[One Winged Angel]

regardless of Larkin being talked about as a "low end 1C" , 1C's do not hit the market very often. they have tremendous value

Your comparison is false equivalency.

You’re portraying Larkin as an elite 1C. He’s not. Jones at his very best is far better at his position than Larkin is at his. At one point, Jones was a top-5 defender in the league. Also, defenders are valued higher, especially RHD.

1C’s are available far more often than 1RHD’s.

History has shown that teams will pay more for the latter.

 

[Hobnobs]

Eastern conference finals and cup appearances arent wasting his prime. Sitting in Detriot for the next 2-5 years is wasting youre prime.

His first ECF appereance @ 29. Wasted prime on a team of mediocrity.

 

[jay from jersey]

I wasnt trying to come at you, i was trying to help prove youre point but i was not reading the rest of the convo before entering.

No I know my dumbass included you with the wrong quote. Lol it’s all good.
Me and you seem to agree on most things

 

[jay from jersey]

Detroit would never agree to that first deal, but I don't think the value is all that bad. I think Chytil will be a good 2C, Jones will play on a 2nd pair, and the 1st in a nice draft.

Nils and a 1st is very fair, but Detroit might want to see Lundkvist in the NHL first as they are in no rush. Of course, that could also backfire if Lundkvist comes out of the gate strong.

I don't think Detroit is shopping Larkin now at all so you'd have to overpay. To me, Lundkvist/1st/Kravstov or Othmann should get it done, but I'm not doing that as the Rangers.

may thinking was, the wings need a Wright/Bedard. Larkin probably hurts them in their chances of landing one of them.
He also only has 2 years left on his deal and might want to sign with a team that’s further along in the process.
Thanks to Fox and the lotto wins with Laf/ kakko plus having Panarin and Zibby our playoff pursuit is this year. Not in a couple of years.
On the flip side, he is a Michigan kid and was just named their captain. So I doubt he’s as miserable as Eichel. Good news for wings fans is they prob have about a year and a half to keep drafting/stocking up to make Larkin feel that the Wings are close to competing long term.

 

[jay from jersey]

His first ECF appereance @ 29. Wasted prime on a team of mediocrity.

How many years were the rangers not in the playoffs with Hank in net?

 

[BStinson]

A vetted poster for the Rangers.

Vetted how exactly? What information did this user post that actually came to fruition before guys like Seravelli, McKenzie, etc. posted about said information? Why wasn’t this posted by an actual credible journalist (I’d imagine NYR/DET markets would garner more than enough clicks).

Can you source this thread where this user posted this information also?

 

[TGWL]

What exactly do you think a guy with a career high of 23 points and never paced more than ~40pts is then?

He paced for 43 with great even strength numbers, limited ice time and no powerplay opportunity.

Unless you think Chytil played over his head this season, can you say that if he was given top 6 minutes Chytil couldn't score 5 more points with having more ice time? And if used on the power-play, would 10-13 powerplay points be out of the question? So is it possible that maybe as a 2c with powerplay opportunity Chytil could increase his point total to 15 -18 more points putting him around the 60 point player mark?

I'm not saying he should be the target in a Larkin trade but I don't think many fans actually realize Chytil had a good year and pacing for 43 with the opportunities given was really impressive.

 

[Hobnobs]

How many years were the rangers not in the playoffs with Hank in net?

What does that matter when the team still is too mediocre to do anything? Stop moving the goal posts. Hanks prime was still wasted on a mediocre Rangers squad. And at best Rangers were a dark horse and never a real contender.

The point is players tend to stay with teams they like for various reasons. This whole "why would player X want to stay with team Y?" is a irrelevant and illogical question 99% of the time.

 

[jay from jersey]

What does that matter when the team still is to mediocre to anything? Stop moving the goal posts. Hanks prime was still wasted on a mediocre Rangers squad. And at best Rangers were a dark horse and never a real contender.

The point is players tend to stay with teams they like for various reasons. This whole "why would player X want to stay with team Y?" is a irrelevant and illogical question 99% of the time.

Any time your in the postseason you have a chance of winning.
Any real player wants to win the cup. There is a big difference between losing in the playoffs and not even being able to advance for the real season.
playoff hockey you need a tremendous amount of skill/luck to keep going. Better teams lose all the time. And some teams it looks like it’s their destiny to win on some years.
If you can’t tell the difference between being a playoff team for 95% of your career or a bottom feeder I can’t help you.
That’s why players consider the playoffs the real season.
Look at poor Eichel. The friggen guy has all the talent in the world and just wants a taste of playoff hockey.

 

[Hobnobs]

Any time your in the postseason you have a chance of winning.
Any real player wants to win the cup. There is a big difference between losing in the playoffs and not even being able to advance for the real season.
playoff hockey you need a tremendous amount of skill/luck to keep going. Better teams lose all the time. And some teams it looks like it’s their destiny to win on some years.
If you can’t tell the difference between being a playoff team for 95% of your career or a bottom feeder I can’t help you.
That’s why players consider the playoffs the real season.

Talk about missing the point completely...

 

[jay from jersey]

Talk about missing the point completely...

No you are. Being in the playoffs every season is far far different then in a rebuild. Of course there is no guarantee to win. Just like there’s no guarantee in anything. You can say Carey Prices Prime was wasted and a ton of others by that logic

 

[jay from jersey]

Vetted how exactly? What information did this user post that actually came to fruition before guys like Seravelli, McKenzie, etc. posted about said information? Why wasn’t this posted by an actual credible journalist (I’d imagine NYR/DET markets would garner more than enough clicks).

Can you source this thread where this user posted this information also?

he’s not wrong. The poster was vetted thru HF s vetting process and is a long time poster on these forums. He did call things before they have happened prior and some things that never came to fruition. He doesn’t write a newsletter or run a website, so he has no need for clicks. He’s just a guy who has some sources inside the NYR organization. The thread is the trade rumors thread on the rangers board around the time of the draft.
You can choose to believe his info or take it with a grain of salt. It doesn’t really matter. But at the time, from my understanding of what I remember it was kravtsov or Lundkvist + 15OVA, but the trade was contingent on DET trading down for a top 2 pick.
No he’s not some kid on a computer in a basement. The HF betting process is a pain, I’m sure you can ask anyone whose gone thru it. He also mentioned we were locked in talks with Calgary a year ago, but those talks ultimately fizzled out as well.
Det is reportedly very high on both Lundkvist and kravtsov. They tried to make a trade to grab Lundkvist before the rangers chose him in the draft.
I will look to link the actual trade rumor thread for you. It’s tough to pinpoint cause we go through a ton of threads over there. But when I find it, I’ll gladly link it for you and you can read for yourself.
Like I said, take it with a grain of salt, because obviously the draft is over now, and no trades were made, but I’d bet NYR still has interest in Larkin/Hertl and Lindholm If the flames ever make him available.
If you take into context that Det would have taken Beniers, had a Right side of Seider/Lundkvist/Hronek plus whoever they took at 15 and a better chance in the Wright draft because if you remove Larkin, Det is def a bottom 5 team, it kind of makes sense

 

[nbwingsfan]

He paced for 43 with great even strength numbers, limited ice time and no powerplay opportunity.

Unless you think Chytil played over his head this season, can you say that if he was given top 6 minutes Chytil couldn't score 5 more points with having more ice time? And if used on the power-play, would 10-13 powerplay points be out of the question? So is it possible that maybe as a 2c with powerplay opportunity Chytil could increase his point total to 15 -18 more points putting him around the 60 point player mark?

I'm not saying he should be the target in a Larkin trade but I don't think many fans actually realize Chytil had a good year and pacing for 43 with the opportunities given was really impressive.

You just added a bunch of “what if” scenarios that never happened. All we know is his career high is 23pts and “pacing” for ~40pts. He hasn’t actually shown to be anything more than a #3C at this point

 

[nbwingsfan]

Ranger fans need to stop trying to ship away guys like Chytil, Lundkvist, Jones etc..
Lets see how these guys perform with a real coach and a full training camp.
Larkin costs about 4 million more than Chytil. Jones is expendable only because he's behind the depth chart of Norris Trophy winner Adam Fox,
and SHL defenseman of the year Nils Lundkvist. Get a grip. Lets see what the these guys can do.

Nils Lundqvist was never SHL D of the year. That would be Seider.

 

[TGWL]

You just added a bunch of “what if” scenarios that never happened. All we know is his career high is 23pts and “pacing” for ~40pts. He hasn’t actually shown to be anything more than a #3C at this point

The first part happened. He paced for over 40 points with limited ice time and no powerplay opportunity. The only what if scenario was potentially increasing his point totals with more minutes and powerplay opportunity. The even strength numbers were fantastic for somebody who "hasn't shown anything more than a 3c." That part happened. Don't put the player down just because you don't want him in a Larkin trade.

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

He paced for 43 with great even strength numbers, limited ice time and no powerplay opportunity.

Unless you think Chytil played over his head this season, can you say that if he was given top 6 minutes Chytil couldn't score 5 more points with having more ice time? And if used on the power-play, would 10-13 powerplay points be out of the question? So is it possible that maybe as a 2c with powerplay opportunity Chytil could increase his point total to 15 -18 more points putting him around the 60 point player mark?

I'm not saying he should be the target in a Larkin trade but I don't think many fans actually realize Chytil had a good year and pacing for 43 with the opportunities given was really impressive.

I don't think many, and I know I certainly wasn't, were belittling Chytil's year. Just balking at him being the centerpiece attraction in a trade for Larkin. Robby Fabbri and Tyler Bertuzzi both had pretty good years, I'm not trying to deal them for Evgeny Kuznetsov or Mika Zibanejad. Or at least I'm not offering them as the centerpiece of the trade.

 

[BStinson]

he’s not wrong. The poster was vetted thru HF s vetting process and is a long time poster on these forums. He did call things before they have happened prior and some things that never came to fruition. He doesn’t write a newsletter or run a website, so he has no need for clicks. He’s just a guy who has some sources inside the NYR organization. The thread is the trade rumors thread on the rangers board around the time of the draft.
You can choose to believe his info or take it with a grain of salt. It doesn’t really matter. But at the time, from my understanding of what I remember it was kravtsov or Lundkvist + 15OVA, but the trade was contingent on DET trading down for a top 2 pick.
No he’s not some kid on a computer in a basement. The HF betting process is a pain, I’m sure you can ask anyone whose gone thru it. He also mentioned we were locked in talks with Calgary a year ago, but those talks ultimately fizzled out as well.
Det is reportedly very high on both Lundkvist and kravtsov. They tried to make a trade to grab Lundkvist before the rangers chose him in the draft

I’m not saying that poster publishing any content but rather media doing it for clicks. Nothing of the sort was posted by reputable sources or any sources other than this user supposedly. I’m assuming it’s in one of the ‘Roster Building/Rumor’ threads? Hard to sift through that amount of content to actually see the post. Maybe this individual heard some rumblings but it’s hard to say because no reputable source published anything and their vetting process isn’t exactly known information to a user like myself.

 

[nbwingsfan]

No you are. Being in the playoffs every season is far far different then in a rebuild. Of course there is no guarantee to win. Just like there’s no guarantee in anything. You can say Carey Prices Prime was wasted and a ton of others by that logic

price’s prime was was wasted. Detroit will be competing for a playoff spot when Larkin is anywhere from 26-27. They’re going to have no problem at all re-signing their homegrown, Detroit loving Captain. Especially considering how much money they will have to spend.

 

[jay from jersey]

I’m not saying that poster publishing any content but rather media doing it for clicks. Nothing of the sort was posted by reputable sources or any sources other than this user supposedly. I’m assuming it’s in one of the ‘Roster Building/Rumor’ threads? Hard to sift through that amount of content to actually see the post. Maybe this individual heard some rumblings but it’s hard to say because no reputable source published anything and their vetting process isn’t exactly known information to a user like myself.

yes sir. It was in the Roster building threads around the time of the draft

 

[nbwingsfan]

The first part happened. He paced for over 40 points with limited ice time and no powerplay opportunity. The only what if scenario was potentially increasing his point totals with more minutes and powerplay opportunity. The even strength numbers were fantastic for somebody who "hasn't shown anything more than a 3c." That part happened. Don't put the player down just because you don't want him in a Larkin trade.

Again, pacing (not even accomplishing) 40ptsnis not #2C numbers. Especially since he’s been playing against some of the worst players for the opposition