Speculation: Derek Stepan Negotiations (9/19-Dreger: "Unlikely" Stepan signs before season opens)

[16 To Stanley*]

No escrow either, apparently.

My point> logic...

 

[NYRKindms]

Im really kind of surprised another team hasn't tried to put the rangers in cap hell with an offer sheet to Stepan.

I can only assume there must be a GM code that says thats a no no. Here you have a really good player, holding out, you know the rangers cannot match a slightly over paying contract for Stepan. You just have to give up picks.

Why wouldn't a GM either steal a player or force another team into financial crisis given the chance ?

It sort of seems like a no brainer for someone, especially in the East to do it.

 

[94now]

And if he sits out a month and misses out on that 435,000 in the first month , that could be compounding over one year at 7% and be turned into 30,000 by the end of the year!

True, but he will get an offer sheet by then. If signed, those .465 million yiou are talking about will be a litte fraction of what he gets. Teams like ANA or VAN have low 1st round draw in relatively average draft next year. You never know... Burke got Kessel, while BOS ended with Ericsson (sp.).

 

[Gardner McKay]

I'm sure most people would love to know what FDIC product is currently paying 7% interest.

He was basing it off of 94Nows 7% number.

 

[Off Sides]

Do you mean shouldn't someone like Stepan have arbitration rights over someone like Hagelin? I don't know. I mean, Sidney Crosby didn't have arbitration rights either when he signed his 2nd contract, though it didn't make a difference in his case.

Most of the guys who have arbitration rights on the 2nd contract have them because either they are coming from the NCAA or they weren't good enough to get a contract at an earlier age. Gilroy signed at what, 25? Lot of good his arbitration rights did him.

The 2nd contract is all the GMs have. It's the only time they have significant leverage against the player. We've all seen how the arbitrators operate, and we've all seen how overpaid many UFAs are. Some GMs are willing to gamble on a long term deal, in the hopes that the player will outperform the contract in the future. Sather isn't one of those GMs.

Yes sort of like Hagelin or McD having the leverage that Stepan does not even though Stepan has played more NHL years.

I agree with you that the 2nd contract needs to be retained, I would have no issue if no RFA had arbitration rights or if they all had them, it just seem like this particular little clause about signing at a later age allows for more leverage in most cases causes issues, not just Stepan, ROR, Subban, etc. Sort of seems like there should be something added that says if a player has played in so many games or so many season with playing a certain amount of games, or they achieve something that allows for it, they too should be arbitration eligible.

 

[Levitate]

Im really kind of surprised another team hasn't tried to put the rangers in cap hell with an offer sheet to Stepan.

I can only assume there must be a GM code that says thats a no no. Here you have a really good player, holding out, you know the rangers cannot match a slightly over paying contract for Stepan. You just have to give up picks.

Why wouldn't a GM either steal a player or force another team into financial crises given the chance ?

It sort of seems like a no brainer for someone, especially in the East to do it.

Stepan has to actually sign an offer. he might have gotten some, but maybe he didn't like them or wants to stay with the Rangers or whatever.

Also, teams in general are kinda hard up with their money at this point. Big market teams are right up against the cap now, and small market teams are probably near their internal cap. It may not make sense for them to offer a big enough contract to attract Stepan and make the Rangers not match

Also, I don't think the poison pill type of stuff really happens too often or is a commonly used tactic (teams aren't going to just offer sheet guys solely to **** another team over). The closest it comes is something like the Weber offer sheet where the Flyers really really wanted Weber and tried to make Nashville less likely to match.

 

[94now]

Im really kind of surprised another team hasn't tried to put the rangers in cap hell with an offer sheet to Stepan.

I can only assume there must be a GM code that says thats a no no. Here you have a really good player, holding out, you know the rangers cannot match a slightly over paying contract for Stepan. You just have to give up picks.

Why wouldn't a GM either steal a player or force another team into financial crisis given the chance ?

It sort of seems like a no brainer for someone, especially in the East to do it.

There is West. VAN has room, Torts and GM that have done worse than that.

 

[Krams]

Do you not like to get paid market value for your services?

That's a reasonable point, but one could argue that if the Rangers aren't willing to meet his demands, and nobody is putting in an offer sheet, then his demands are above market value.

 

[Gardner McKay]

My point> logic...

Btw. Who is that in your avatar?

 

[Hi ImHFNYR]

Why are people brushing aside $500,000? That's a VERY nice house....

Ohhh I would LOVE to field that one! Refer to the Kovalchuk threads for the answer.Forget the fact that 94 featured the talents of a bunch of people brought in (not after training camp) after half the season was already over via trade. Nope don't acknowledge that. Ignore all the recent players who missed training camp +. Apparently he must piss away one million dollars or 500k just so he can attend this all important camp. If I'm Stepan the camp can go **** itself. Do I think he should sign for 3 mil per? Yea. But I also get why he's fighting for more nd think both sides should settle at something like 325 per

 

[Gardner McKay]

Ohhh I would LOVE to field that one! Refer to the Kovalchuk threads for the answer.Forget the fact that 94 featured the talents of a bunch of people brought in (not after training camp) after half the season was already over via trade. Nope don't acknowledge that. Ignore all the recent players who missed training camp +. Apparently he must piss away one million dollars or 500k just so he can attend this all important camp. If I'm Stepan the camp can go **** itself. Do I think he should sign for 3 mil per? Yea. But I also get why he's fighting for more nd think both sides should settle at something like 325 per

I think every one agrees that 3.25 is a fair number. Its just a matter of when he finally accepts that number. Does it drag out into the season?

 

[Hi ImHFNYR]

Im really kind of surprised another team hasn't tried to put the rangers in cap hell with an offer sheet to Stepan.

I can only assume there must be a GM code that says thats a no no. Here you have a really good player, holding out, you know the rangers cannot match a slightly over paying contract for Stepan. You just have to give up picks.

Why wouldn't a GM either steal a player or force another team into financial crisis given the chance ?

It sort of seems like a no brainer for someone, especially in the East to do it.

I would have to both laugh and be enraged if a team sends out a 4.75 mil offer sheet. Bonus points if it's calgary. SUPER bonus points

 

[NYRKindms]

Stepan has to actually sign an offer. he might have gotten some, but maybe he didn't like them or wants to stay with the Rangers or whatever.

Also, teams in general are kinda hard up with their money at this point. Big market teams are right up against the cap now, and small market teams are probably near their internal cap. It may not make sense for them to offer a big enough contract to attract Stepan and make the Rangers not match

Also, I don't think the poison pill type of stuff really happens too often or is a commonly used tactic (teams aren't going to just offer sheet guys solely to **** another team over). The closest it comes is something like the Weber offer sheet where the Flyers really really wanted Weber and tried to make Nashville less likely to match.

I agree but if organizations were really competing with one another it would be a given. Like if the Boston red sox could put the yankees in cap hell ( I know that there is no cap in baseball just choosing two historically rival teams). I think it was one of the beat writers who suggested the Isles should do it to stick it to the rangers. Isles either get a 1B or they put the cross town rivals in a tough spot with the cap.

It just makes it seem like the organizations collude to keep players in check. I guess that is true given the CBA but casts a cloud over these organizations wanting to be the best of the best. They seem to be content to be good enough.

 

[HatTrick Swayze]

Did not expect it to drag out this long.

I don't blame either side for "fighting for their position". It is their right.

But it's not a good thing. Not what you wanna see happen as a fan. Stepan is gonna have some ground to make up when he does hit the ice.

 

[94now]

Stepan has to actually sign an offer. he might have gotten some, but maybe he didn't like them or wants to stay with the Rangers or whatever..

I don't think any would come up with OS, but teams scan the sitiations with every RFA. Why would he want to stay in NY? This is the team that has potential NOW. But in a few years it would be due for rebuild. Like it or not, the window is closing. It may get bad much sooner. If Hank is not signed by Jan, McD could be more of the loser than Step with his bridge.

 

[Levitate]

I dunno, none of us are in NHL management. None of the sportswriters are either. It may make sense from the outside but internally there may be a very strong sentiment against doing it just to try to **** someone over. Teams may not deal readily with teams who do it, etc, who knows

 

[NYRKindms]

I dunno, none of us are in NHL management. None of the sportswriters are either. It may make sense from the outside but internally there may be a very strong sentiment against doing it just to try to **** someone over. Teams may not deal readily with teams who do it, etc, who knows

That seems more likely. But i have a hard time thinking that a GM out there wasn't screwed by Slats at some point and is just itching for some payback.

 

[Gardner McKay]

I don't think any would come up with OS, but teams scan the sitiations with every RFA. Why would he want to stay in NY? This is the team that has potential NOW. But in a few years it would be due for rebuild. Like it or not, the window is closing.

As long as Lundqvist is healthy and playing at a semi - competitive level, we won't be rebuilding. The length of Lundqvists next contract determines when the potential "rebuild" could occur.

 

[pld459666]

That seems more likely. But i have a hard time thinking that a GM out there wasn't screwed by Slats at some point and is just itching for some payback.

Montreal?

 

[94now]

I agree but if organizations were really competing with one another it would be a given. Like if the Boston red sox could put the yankees in cap hell ( I know that there is no cap in baseball just choosing two historically rival teams). I think it was one of the beat writers who suggested the Isles should do it to stick it to the rangers. Isles either get a 1B or they put the cross town rivals in a tough spot with the cap.

Or Torts would like to say hello to Slats .

 

[Boruto]

People have been saying that they do not expect this to drag out for the last week since camp started. No one would have guessed that he would miss 2 preseason games.

 

[94now]

As long as Lundqvist is healthy and playing at a semi - competitive level, we won't be rebuilding. The length of Lundqvists next contract determines when the potential "rebuild" could occur.

I wish Hank last longer that Marty, but the odds are against it.

 

[Boruto]

RNH signed a $6M/7Year contract. Won't help Step feel valued

 

[rangersbaby]

Kadri's cap hit last year was 870k:

http://www.capgeek.com/mapleleafs/archive/?year_id=2012

There are no carryover bonuses, so he obviously didn't meet the conditions for all of his performance bonuses.

Stepan's cap hit was 875k last year:

http://www.capgeek.com/rangers/archive/?year_id=2012

With proration due to the lockout, both players probably made closer to 500k in actual dollars.

Stepan was making a lot more money the 2 years prior when Kadri spent a lot of time in the AHL, where his salary was only $67,500. So no, Stepan hasn't been underpaid to this point when compared to Kadri.



The CBA hasn't screwed Stepan. Did it screw Couture when he signed his 2 year, 2.875 mil per year deal? The 5 year, 30 mil deal he just signed suggests otherwise. He was coming off a 32 goal season. Stepan has only performed at near PPG totals for half of one year.

You know who got screwed by the CBA? Older players who now can't find a job because teams have no more cap space. I'm sure any of them would switch positions with Stepan in a heartbeat.

Cap hit was 1.7 for Kadri
He hit his P.Bs last year. They do carry over.
With the kids who arent arb eligible they are forced to take whatever the org gives them or holdout that is being screwed by CBA when you completely outplay the older players on your team making 8,5.5, 4.5 4 million dollars a year and your raking in 875.... And then your next contract you have to take what your given with no rights that is getting the shaft... Sorry
That older player your talking about had the same chance and if they were good enough a team would fit him into their cap.
And yes it did screw couture she because he got paid doesnt mean stepan will. Players are 1 hit away from losing their livelihood. And dont say it doesnt happen because it does... you will be disrespecting numerous players who are now paralyzed and cant even walk.... This money matters Its a million dollars not 25,000 dollars they are apart on.
We should be happy hes not asking for Mcd type of money because he could. If he sat out the whole year and played in KHL He would come back next year and a arbitrator would rule that he is a 5.5 million dollar player...

 

[94now]

That seems more likely. But i have a hard time thinking that a GM out there wasn't screwed by Slats at some point and is just itching for some payback.

There will be no payback. Rangers will send everyone and their mothers to LTIR, AHL, to hell, but will match. They cannot replace Step.