Speculation: Derek Stepan Negotiations (9/19-Dreger: "Unlikely" Stepan signs before season opens)

[Thirty One]

Without Step this team doesn't make any playoffs. Last year or next. He is the best C this team has. 8 years 50 million is my contract. Let's Sather take a bridge deal for himself. Sather could buy Richards out in order to pay for Richards replacement. Instead Sather wants to have it both ways:keep Richards and Stepan. If so tell Brad to pay a few of his unearned millions to Derek under the table. He did the job Richards could not and I can bet will not do.

Allan Walsh is that you?

 

[pld459666]

The Rangers are not an unfair organization. Stupid sometimes, maybe. Unfair, no.

Initial offer, prior to Kadri signing, may have been in that 2.7 range. There is absolutely no way they can offer anything lower than 3 mil at this point.

The offer is probably between 3.0-3.3 and stepan is asking for probably above 4 mil.

The Rangers hold firm on players they have every ability to hold firm on.

Unfair? Not at all. They are playing by the rules under the CBA. Kudos to them.

So, for arguments sake, I'm Sather. I come in at 2.75. I see Kadri deal get done at 2.9. I'm not going to 3.0 or 3.3. I may move to 2.9 to match Kadri, but that's also assuming Stepan and his folks come down a notch.

Something they may not be willing to do because while they may have had the same stats last season, Stepan's resume is longer and his role on the team is a lot more important. There are factors at play here that put Stepan's value a great deal higher than that of Kadri.

I really don't see Stepan and his folks looking for north of 4 on a two year deal. But for arguments sake lets use 4 as the number.

2.7-4.0=1.3/2=.65

4.0-.65 = 3.35

2 year bridge deal for 6.7 million.

2.5 1st year
4.2 2nd year

3.35 AAV

Seems fair.

 

[16 To Stanley*]

The Rangers hold firm on players they have every ability to hold firm on.

Unfair? Not at all. They are playing by the rules under the CBA. Kudos to them.

So, for arguments sake, I'm Sather. I come in at 2.75. I see Kadri deal get done at 2.9. I'm not going to 3.0 or 3.3. I may move to 2.9 to match Kadri, but that's also assuming Stepan and his folks come down a notch.

Something they may not be willing to do because while they may have had the same stats last season, Stepan's resume is longer and his role on the team is a lot more important. There are factors at play here that put Stepan's value a great deal higher than that of Kadri.

I really don't see Stepan and his folks looking for north of 4 on a two year deal. But for arguments sake lets use 4 as the number.

2.7-4.0=1.3/2=.65

4.0-.65 = 3.35

2 year bridge deal for 6.7 million.

2.5 1st year
4.2 2nd year

3.35 AAV

Seems fair.

You really don't understand how negotations work at all, do you?

And to the guy above who referenced clarksons contract...not sure if that was you as well, but learn the difference between an RFA without arbitration rights and a UFA.

My numbers may be slightly off, but the logistics are correct and it's common sense.

 

[94now]

You can't be serious....

Why? That's what No1 C in this league should be making. You may disagree only if you think Step is not 1C. PPG wingers are well known, but Cs with such production are rarities, really. My contract does not mean that I predict what he would get. I don't know the guy, but he projects an image of a nice person that is easy to take advatage of while off the ice. I hate when that happens.

 

[Boom Boom Geoffrion*]

I did not mean Dubi's bridge, but last contract. Dubi was best C out of farm before Stepan (Anisimov was not established really).

What the hell does Dubi's last contract have to do with Stepan's? Try and make some sense when you post. They have nothing to do with one-another.

I believe he does.

If Clarkson can get over 5.5 per, regardless of status of FA, Stepan deserves AT LEAST 3.5

EASILY.

But I am also not one to ignore that what you sign for and what you deserve are two very different things.

Drury, Redden, Gomez. Let's not look at UFA salaries and try and compare them to someone who isn't arbitration eligible.

Pay your dues. Earn your payday. Sather isn't cheap. Prove it and you'll get what you deserve. That's been his MO for ages. Stepan needs to realize he isn't going to get the type of money he's looking for after a shortened season of 1C production. Especially now.

Sather has the upper hand now. Stepan will have it later.

Does anyone think a player and his agent are going to do a GM a favor when it's their turn to cash in? Nope. That rarely happens.

I'm siding with the GM on this. **** Stepan. Pay your dues, kiddo. Or enjoy watching the games on television, while guys like Brassard, Richards, Lindberg, Boyle, and Moore get ample playing time at center ice.

Allan Walsh is that you?

Allan Walsh would't compare Dubi's second contract with Stepan's first. He actually understands certain things about how things work.

 

[*Bob Richards*]

Why? That's what No1 C in this league should be making. You may disagree only if you think Step is not 1C. PPG wingers are well known, but Cs with such production are rarities, really. My contract does not mean that I predict what he would get. I don't know the guy, but he projects an image of a nice person that is easy to take advatage of while off the ice. I hate when that happens.

To pay him that amount of money for 30 something good games is asinine.

 

[Thirty One]

Allan Walsh would't compare Dubi's second contract with Stepan's first. He actually understands certain things about how things work.

Allan Walsh would his aunt to a grapefruit if it meant taking a shot at ownership/management.

 

[94now]

You really don't understand how negotations work at all, do you?

What is the point in making predictions of what will Stepan get? Do you think that is his value or not? I think it is riduculeos to pay Step what Sather offers. If this is not low balling than what is? Sure he could be forse to take that. But as a fan I know well about the difference between a happy player and unhappy palyer when it comes to contract. My concern is how that will effect his play once he forced to sign that contract

 

[16 To Stanley*]

What is the point in making predictions of what will Stepan get? Do you think that is his value or not? I think it is riduculeos to pay Step what Sather offers. If this is not low balling than what is? Sure he could be forse to take that. But as a fan I know well about the difference between a happy player and unhappy palyer when it comes to contract. My concern is how that will effect his play once he forced to sign that contract

I think he is a shy man, therefore we should give him 6 million a year.

 

[FJB]

I get annoyed by holdouts, especially when we're in a (*#$@$(@& recession.

 

[nyr2k2]

What is the point in making predictions of what will Stepan get? Do you think that is his value or not? I think it is riduculeos to pay Step what Sather offers. If this is not low balling than what is? Sure he could be forse to take that. But as a fan I know well about the difference between a happy player and unhappy palyer when it comes to contract. My concern is how that will effect his play once he forced to sign that contract

Your value is based on your performance, age AND your free agent status. Stepan is not an unrestricted free agent. He's not arbitration-eligible. So no, his value is not $6.25M/yr as you suggested.

You don't hand a kid double his market value just to be kind. I mean maybe in a pre-cap era you can do that, but now, you're killing yourself by committing unnecessary dollars to young players. If Derek Stepan is an "unhappy player" because the market dictates he make ~$3/yr, then we have a serious problem.

 

[94now]

To pay him that amount of money for 30 something good games is asinine.

No one is payed for the past. Past serves as projection point being very important in predicting future. He won everywhere he played, making linemates better. Does WJC count? AHL? Past seasons?Absolutely. So it is not 30 games, although 30 is enough to tell since dive down usually takes place after 10-15 (see J.T. Miller). Step was assesed long ago, BTW so number of good games last season do not apply.
I love the guy. To me good C is determined by how he plays in his own zone. So those from Fantasy Hockey should take a seat. He is pleasure to watch. Pay him to continue!

 

[nyr2k2]

No one is payed for the past. Past serves as projection point being very important in predicting future. He won everywhere he played, making linemates better. Does WJC count? AHL? Absolutely. So it is not 30 games, although 30 is enough to tell since dive down usually takes place after 10-15 (see J.T. Miller). To me good C is determined by how he plays in his own zone. So those from Fantasy Hockey should take a seat.

Well then we should just take all of Stepan's money and give it to Brian Boyle. I hear he's a super nice guy as well.

 

[pld459666]

You really don't understand how negotations work at all, do you?

And to the guy above who referenced clarksons contract...not sure if that was you as well, but learn the difference between an RFA without arbitration rights and a UFA.

My numbers may be slightly off, but the logistics are correct and it's common sense.

Granted what I posted was the shortest way from point A to point B, but there's an end game.

There's a start and a finish for both sides. Both sides have an end game.

I work in an industry where all I do is negotiate. I have been in this Industry for just 2 companies for the last 20 years. I have negotiated equipment sales in just the last 5 years to the tune of more than 100 Million.

I'm pretty well versed when it comes to negotiating.

I understand leverage and when to use it. I also understand that because everyone else thinks there is no more money to get, there IS ALWAYS more money to get.

Sather is NOT going to start at 2.7 and jump to 3.3 because Kadri signed at 2.9. He'd be an idiot to do that.

 

[Pizza]

Granted what I posted was the shortest way from point A to point B, but there's an end game.

There's a start and a finish for both sides. Both sides have an end game.

I work in an industry where all I do is negotiate. I have been in this Industry for just 2 companies for the last 20 years. I have negotiated equipment sales in just the last 5 years to the tune of more than 100 Million.

I'm pretty well versed when it comes to negotiating.

I understand leverage and when to use it. I also understand that because everyone else thinks there is no more money to get, there IS ALWAYS more money to get.

Sather is NOT going to start at 2.7 and jump to 3.3 because Kadri signed at 2.9. He'd be an idiot to do that.

Exactomundo. With these guys you never get into something you don't have an exit point for.

That said, things can always go astray. I'm getting my head around the idea that Step won't be with us for the start of the season at least.

 

[94now]

Your value is based on your performance, age AND your free agent status. Stepan is not an unrestricted free agent. He's not arbitration-eligible. So no, his value is not $6.25M/yr as you suggested.

You are correct. I just disagree. Good GM pays his core regardless of status.

You don't hand a kid double his market value just to be kind..

Stepan is the best forward Sather drafted and developped in his tenure here. He is a pride of the Rangers as far as long lost ability to produce NHLes comes back to reality. LOW BALL THAT GUY!!!

I mean maybe in a pre-cap era you can do that, but now, you're killing yourself by committing unnecessary dollars to young players..

Sather was killing himself in many different ways and you can beat me in count easily. It is not Derek's fault.

 

[nyr2k2]

You are correct. I just disagree. Good GM pays his core regardless of status.

Stepan is the best forward Sather drafted and developped in his tenure here. He is a pride of the Rangers as far as long lost ability to produce NHLes comes back to reality. LOW BALL THAT GUY!!!

Sather was killing himself in many different way and you can beat me in count easily. It is not Derek's fault.

You're obviously entitled to a different perspective on doling out contracts. I just think your perspective is at odds with fundamental economic concepts.

Nothing here is anyone's fault. I'm not "blaming" Stepan, nor am I "blaming" Sather. These are business negotiations. There is often times acrimony and contentiousness. It's no big deal.

Capitalism...where the boss tries to pay you as little as possible for the most amount of work, and the worker tries to earn as much as possible for the least amount of work.

 

[94now]

Well then we should just take all of Stepan's money and give it to Brian Boyle. I hear he's a super nice guy as well.

Bad example. Never liked Boyle, sorry. Glad Moore is in Blue. Learn from Belachek to pay those you developped over those you signed as a FAs.

 

[Boom Boom Geoffrion*]

Good GM pays his core regardless of status.

Regardless of status?

Holy **** it's the twilight zone in here today. . . . .

 

[Boom Boom Geoffrion*]

Bad example. Never liked Boyle, sorry. Glad Moore is in Blue. Learn from Belachek to pay those you developped over those you signed as a FAs.

Why don't you like BB? He's a nice guy!!!111one

 

[ChrisKreider20]

Threaten to trade his rights to Winnipeg. That'll get him to sign.

 

[94now]

Capitalism...where the boss tries to pay you as little as possible for the most amount of work, and the worker tries to earn as much as possible for the least amount of work.

Capitalism is just a reflection of human nature, that is why it works well. CBA on the other hand adds one huge element of Slavery to it. That 's where the problem is. Look at the best NHL organisations and you will find they are able to do things differently, they pay those they belive in (i.e. the core) Sather take advatage of his owns. Shame!

 

[GAGLine]

Stepan is the best forward Sather drafted and developped in his tenure here. He is a pride of the Rangers as far as long lost ability to produce NHLes comes back to reality. LOW BALL THAT GUY!!!

He's being low-balled based on your perception of what he should make. But your perception isn't in line with the way the league actually works. Even the players who get the long term deals on their 2nd contract generally make less in the beginning of the contract than they do at the end.

Look at Henrique and Hodgson. Neither had arbitration rights, just like Stepan. They both signed 6 year deals. Look how their contracts are structured.

Henrique will make 2 mil this year and 3 mil next year. He'll make a total of 24 mil over the next 6 years.

Stepan will probably sign for 3.2 per year. He'll make 1.4 million more than Henrique over the next 2 years. And if he continues to be a PPG player, he will get a much larger contract that will pay him 5 or 6 million per year, or maybe more.

Stepan has the potential to make way more money than Henrique, if he's the player we all hope him to be. Do you think Giroux regrets signing a 3 year deal after his ELC? Do you think Couture regrets signing a 2 year bridge deal? These guys proved that they were the real deal and they got paid. Stepan just has to do the same.

 

[pld459666]

Threaten to trade his rights to Winnipeg. That'll get him to sign.

Get to play with Kane and Wheeler and Ladd AND he's close to home?

If the Jets are smart, they look to offer-sheet Stepan.

He could play in alot worse markets and teams.

 

[Boom Boom Geoffrion*]

Capitalism is just a reflection of human nature, that is why it works well. CBA on the other hand adds one huge element of Slavery to it. That 's where the problem is. Look at the best NHL organisations and you will find they are able to do things differently, they pay those they belive in (i.e. the core) Sather take advatage of his owns. Chame!

Slavery?

Uhh, no. Not really.

First of all someone working against their will, isn't making MILLIONS AND MILLIONS OF DOLLARS. So, similar to your Stepan/Dubinsky contract comparison, you proved you can muster up 2 awful analogies in one thread. That's impressive.

Secondly, Stepan has choices. Your typical slave, isn't even entitled to choices.

Third, the Rangers have made the playoffs every single season post lockout, except for 1. That, to me, represents a successful franchise.

And last, Sather has offered 'fair' value for Stepan. A contract to what other similar players have received. Suggesting Sather is taking advantage of Stepan, is beyond foolish.

UUUhhhhhhhgggggggg.. Sign the contract Stepan. I can't keep being riddled with other people's magical one-liners of awesomeness.