Player Discussion Derek Ryan

[McShogun99]

The problem with Ryan is that he’s always been a career 4th liner and we have him playing on the 3rd line at the age of 35. If we get a proper 3C and limit Ryan’s minutes then his play should improve. McLeod has been doing good in the 3C role since his call up but he’s still just a rookie.

 

[Oilhawks]

The problem with Ryan is that he’s always been a career 4th liner and we have him playing on the 3rd line at the age of 35. If we get a proper 3C and limit Ryan’s minutes then his play should improve. McLeod has been doing good in the 3C role since his call up but he’s still just a rookie.

He was a 3C for the Flames, it’s not unreasonable to expect him to be a 4C at this stage, though. He’s definitely better than he’s been here, either way

 

[SwedishFire]

I really like McLeod and Foegele as a tandem. Big, fast and McLeod getting better every game. Get a solid 3rd (Shore) in there, and I think they are an impact line.

I would like Benson McLeod Fogele as a line. Fogeles hands could be a problem though. And Fogele needs to know how to shot the pill, paired with two passers

 

[Bryanbryoil]

We should just avoid signing anyone over 30 as FA's they seem to just come here to be put out to pasture.

 

[Drivesaitl]

We should just avoid signing anyone over 30 as FA's they seem to just come here to be put out to pasture.

Disagree. Its about assessing which of them is still bringing anything to the table. Multiple teams bet on guys like Corey Perry still having a pulse while we're beating the barn floor looking for anything scurrying around. Holland is patently lazy. Its my theory that half the players around here are guys or their agents calling him. I've heard this is the case with Barrie, Turris, Sceviour, Shore.

How often does Holland even initiate bringing players in? The guy is asleep at the switch and the due dilligence of our scouts and management prior to bringing players in is pathetic. Did Holland even initiate getting Keith here or was he just a convenient mark? From the way that negotiation went its pretty clear Holland was a perceived mark.

 

[NashtoNowitzki]

He was a 3C for the Flames, it’s not unreasonable to expect him to be a 4C at this stage, though. He’s definitely better than he’s been here, either way

He wasn't a 3C last year at 34, IdiotHolland thought he could be for us at 35 & 36.

He played under 12 minutes a game last year, that's not a third liner. We have an asleep dullard running our front office.

 

[Drivesaitl]

The Oilers are perennially in a Kyle Brodziak type conundrum. Tons of times we have players right under our nose, allow other clubs to have them for nothing, and then bring them back years later when they're too old to play and completely over their prime.

Derek Ryan was right here in Edmonton. Myself and other fans made inquiries why the Oilers had zero interest in the player. Two orgs, did, Carolina and Calgary. Ryan was playing several years here right in Edmonton. Scouting him would have cost a bus ticket. Instead we had scouts half way around the world advising on players that would come in here, be useless, and discarded the next year. Ryan had about 5-6 useful NHL seasons. Probably would have been useful immediately after CIS. Team completely missed the window on the player, but sign him when he's old at the point that he's no longer a player.

What this clownshow org does. They couldn't find gold in a salted Bre-X sample.

 

[Oilhawks]

He wasn't a 3C last year at 34, IdiotHolland thought he could be for us at 35 & 36.

He played under 12 minutes a game last year, that's not a third liner. We have an asleep dullard running our front office.

Who was the Flames’ 3C then? Bennett, until he was traded? Honestly don’t know (and don’t really care)

Ryan has shown that he still has it, in spurts. Easily a 4C on a team with a good system, so not here

 

[Jumptheshark]

Interesting to see how the comments have changed

 

[Oilhawks]

Interesting to see how the comments have changed

Indeed, a few posters that have done a 180 and pretended like they didn’t

 

[Drivesaitl]

Interesting to see how the comments have changed

'

Why wouldn't comments change in respect of a player that has been our worst player here? Considering with Turris and Koskinen still here is quite a task. Ryan has been a bad player all season here. its Jan 7, it isn't a short window we've seen him good here. The team is worse whenever he's on the ice. I was hoping he still ahd something left as he was a reasonable player in Carolina, and early on in Calgary. But I didn't watch Calgary much last year, other than games we were playing them. So with 30 games played here theres been more of a window to see he just doesn't have it anymore. Not sure if it was concussion or injury this season (he's had both) but he isn't up to par, I doubt he will be again. Harder to bounce back from serial injuries late in career. Now Covid.

The player didn't work out, it happens. But Holland has had one hit, and several misses in offseason. The only consistent player he obtained off season being Ceci.

I'm not about to "pretend" lol, that Derek Ryan is still an NHL player when every viewing and stat is saying different. I watch all the games. All the minutes. Derek Ryan has been crap here. I think it would be silly NOT to realize that.

 

[Lacaar]

We should just avoid signing anyone over 30 as FA's they seem to just come here to be put out to pasture.

This times a thousand.. like has anyone ever worked out here past the age of 30 as a ufa?

That being said.. does any player really ever work out here. Outside of McDavid and Draisitl and perhaps to an extent Nurse. Does anyone really ever excel here consistently?

just a quick google search hits this article. Recapping the last decade of Edmonton Oilers free agent frenzy signings

That is absolutely positively disgusting... gut wrenchingly pathetic. Mike Smith is the best UFA signing we've had in a decade.

The Oilers need to do a hard and deep f***ing look at how to get the best out of their players. Because even the good ones that come here seem to fall into some type of despair that turns good players into shit players.

This isn't GM's... Coaches... staff... There's something f***ed here.. something in the water that takes the edge out of the player.
Winter depression?
Wives/GF's hate it and want to live the good warm life of the states?
Organization that allows complacency?
Organization that's so tightly wound they live in fear?

I don't claim to have any clue what the f*** is wrong with the Oilers or the City itself. Its been 20+ years of this with the odd rare decent season that we make the playoffs. If you want to see a good hockey player turn average... come on down folks.
Take any player on our roster... any... and throw them on a team like Vegas. BAM instant upgraded player.

Until the organization figures out why players turn to giant piles of steaming shit here.... It doesn't matter who we hire to coach... who we trade for.. and who does the trading and drafting.

 

[SwedishFire]

Ryan, Perlini and Turris should all be sent to Bakersfield.

Ryan could be picked op frpm waivers, but IF we do.
Its interresting. Up ; Griffith who will be an upgrade on Turris, Marody that I want to see if he plays well with MacLeod and Benson (NHL is diffrent from AHL in terms of free space, and structure ), and then maybe... Cracknell? He is probBly too old, bit could be a good 4th liner.

Benson MacLeod Marody
Griffith Cracknell Sceviour

I see why Ryan is kept. The center is very thin.

 

[Tyrolean]

This times a thousand.. like has anyone ever worked out here past the age of 30 as a ufa?

That being said.. does any player really ever work out here. Outside of McDavid and Draisitl and perhaps to an extent Nurse. Does anyone really ever excel here consistently?

just a quick google search hits this article. Recapping the last decade of Edmonton Oilers free agent frenzy signings

That is absolutely positively disgusting... gut wrenchingly pathetic. Mike Smith is the best UFA signing we've had in a decade.

The Oilers need to do a hard and deep f***ing look at how to get the best out of their players. Because even the good ones that come here seem to fall into some type of despair that turns good players into shit players.

This isn't GM's... Coaches... staff... There's something f***ed here.. something in the water that takes the edge out of the player.
Winter depression?
Wives/GF's hate it and want to live the good warm life of the states?
Organization that allows complacency?
Organization that's so tightly wound they live in fear?

I don't claim to have any clue what the f*** is wrong with the Oilers or the City itself. Its been 20+ years of this with the odd rare decent season that we make the playoffs. If you want to see a good hockey player turn average... come on down folks.
Take any player on our roster... any... and throw them on a team like Vegas. BAM instant upgraded player.

Until the organization figures out why players turn to giant piles of steaming shit here.... It doesn't matter who we hire to coach... who we trade for.. and who does the trading and drafting.

Roloson.

 

[Lacaar]

Roloson.

yup that was 14 years ago? I went back 10 only.

And Roloson as a UFA signing never got us back to the playoffs. Though he played well for us in those two years I recall.

The point still stands imo.. There's something about this place.. the city.. the org.. whatever I have no clue. Whatever it is.. it does not get the potential out of the hockey player.
There's something intrinsic to what's happening at that f***ing arena every day.. that sucks the good out of the athlete.

 

[Blue Line Turnover]

I do too. He's been bad but also a lot of bad luck. He looks lost out there, I'm confident he would do better on a team with a system that he's more used to.

His play reminds me of Ryan Strome's final 15 game stretch here; playing a better 200 foot game than most of our forwards, making good decisions in the d-zone, having to fight for every scoring chance, but getting zero puck luck and help in many situations

 

[Drivesaitl]

yup that was 14 years ago? I went back 10 only.

And Roloson as a UFA signing never got us back to the playoffs. Though he played well for us in those two years I recall.

The point still stands imo.. There's something about this place.. the city.. the org.. whatever I have no clue. Whatever it is.. it does not get the potential out of the hockey player.
There's something intrinsic to what's happening at that f***ing arena every day.. that sucks the good out of the athlete.

Could it be that players that are in the NHL, and have been, that are 30 or more years old now ahve seen the utter trainwreck that the Edmonton Oilers org has been for a long time. So assuming that they even pay attention to hockey for the last 20yrs even as youth, and I'm sure they did they would have known of such things as K Lowe blocking a trade of Mike Comrie for Corey Perry, demanding that Comrie pay back 250K in some sort of extortion attempt. They would know of an org that mocked
Ryan Smyth" fake tears"
They would know about Cal Nichols (part owner) telling Chris Pronger he should take control of his home life and "who wears the boots in your family" telling him just tell his wife to come to live in Edmonton and like it.

I mean these are just a few, theres 20 stories like these, and from an org that has been deplorable to its players, to its fans. (2nd tier fans) and a jack ass like K Lowe decrying critiques with "I think I know something about winning in case theres any doubt." Such avarice is the cost of prolonged success. Some mentalities can handle it. Other individuals just become horrible conceited bosses. The know it alls, the legends in their own minds. K Lowe was a lesserlight in the 5 cup wins. McT as well, but they sometimes deluded themselves that current players were not worthy of their hockey acumen. McT and the Dustin Penner donuts thing.

What we have here is a dastardly org. A trainwreck. Its hard to get over that. One has to wonder how much players of a certain age (older) would want to come here due to what they've known about this org. We're also just short years from Chiarelli who went out and obtained Manning, the very player that tried to end Connor McDavids career and bragged of it, refused to deny it, and laughed about it. This org made Connor McDavid approve that acquisition and sit with him in a room and play with him on the same team. This org also traded Strome (McD friend) for beans, the worst trade since the Taylor Hall trade. What kind of an org does these things. Its one stop short of either evil, deranged, or contemptuous. The same org trashed Rieder, the compatriot of one of their stars, Leon Draisaitl. They let Kahun, another, just walk.

This org is deplorable. We almost have to have players that either very young, or that do not have any memories of such incidents.

We're lucky we have McDrai and Nurse. Without these players we wouldn't be attracting free agent flies. Even with Derek Ryan specifically this is an org that looked off him multiple times, said no, thus Ryan playing in Europe for a few years and said no a couple times when he was available as an NHLer. Its just odd we have Derek Ryan now. Should have been around 8-10yrs ago.

Ask yourself given a choice if you would play for this org. Then ask yourself if you would play hard for this org and give it your all knowing its history.

Its unfortunate that K Lowe and MacT and others so tarnished the reputation of the org that they were once involved in, in bringing glory. Its full circle and the positives of the logo and Org are erased.

 

[Dazed and Confused]

The problem with Ryan, isn't so much him, but the role the team asks him to take on. Namely be someone that can play in a tough checking/defensive role, while supporting a bunch of kids or average-at-best-defensively players on his wing. He could maybe keep his head above water doing this in his prime, but not at 34/35 (and even then, he failed in that role in CAR).

Imo, if they still had Archi this wouldn't be as big of an issue, as he's an above average checker; but right now you're asking Ryan to go out with Sceviour, Benson, Shore, and/or Kassian (or the below average defensively Turris or Perlini), and hold his own. It's just not a recipe for success.

I'd love to get someone with a little size and speed, but also strong defensive acumen to pair with him. It doesn't need to be a true top 9 guy, but a quality 4th liner would do the trick. Nick Paul in Ottawa would be the dream fit, but even someone like Sheahan would go a long way to fixing this.

Assuming the team can start getting guys back, this would be my ideal lineup for the second half.

RNH-McDrai-Hyman
Foegele-McDrai-Pulju
Benson-McLeod-Yams
Paul-Ryan-Kassian
Sceviour/Shore, Perlini

With RNH-Hyman, McLeod-Yams, Ryan-Paul forming your defensive backbone upfront.

 

[SwedishFire]

The problem with Ryan, isn't so much him, but the role the team asks him to take on. Namely be someone that can play in a tough checking/defensive role, while supporting a bunch of kids or average-at-best-defensively players on his wing. He could maybe keep his head above water doing this in his prime, but not at 34/35 (and even then, he failed in that role in CAR).

Imo, if they still had Archi this wouldn't be as big of an issue, as he's an above average checker; but right now you're asking Ryan to go out with Sceviour, Benson, Shore, and/or Kassian (or the below average defensively Turris or Perlini), and hold his own. It's just not a recipe for success.

I'd love to get someone with a little size and speed, but also strong defensive acumen to pair with him. It doesn't need to be a true top 9 guy, but a quality 4th liner would do the trick. Nick Paul in Ottawa would be the dream fit, but even someone like Sheahan would go a long way to fixing this.

Assuming the team can start getting guys back, this would be my ideal lineup for the second half.

RNH-McDrai-Hyman
Foegele-McDrai-Pulju
Benson-McLeod-Yams
Paul-Ryan-Kassian
Sceviour/Shore, Perlini

With RNH-Hyman, McLeod-Yams, Ryan-Paul forming your defensive backbone upfront.

Yes, true. God damn what I hate that. Always trying to solve the thoughest position, bottom 6 defensive responsible center, by O N E single person. Really? Such problem takes at least two to solve. A great line is made by three, not one player.
And his linemates? Constantly changing in the beginnig, Ryan had to be the glue, A N D carry Turris, Perlini, Benson, etc.

Get another bottom 6 heavy responsible defensive specialist, and they together is fine.

And its easy to make a whipping boy out ofbTurris, but there justvis better players than him. He doesnt help defensivly, and he has no room.

If Hilland doesnt getvmore help to Ryan, Holland shoulfnt not keep him, he should trade him

 

[Dazed and Confused]

Yes, true. God damn what I hate that. Always trying to solve the thoughest position, bottom 6 defensive responsible center, by O N E single person. Really? Such problem takes at least two to solve. A great line is made by three, not one player.
And his linemates? Constantly changing in the beginnig, Ryan had to be the glue, A N D carry Turris, Perlini, Benson, etc.

Get another bottom 6 heavy responsible defensive specialist, and they together is fine.

And its easy to make a whipping boy out ofbTurris, but there justvis better players than him. He doesnt help defensivly, and he has no room.

If Hilland doesnt getvmore help to Ryan, Holland shoulfnt not keep him, he should trade him

Yep. I'll give Holland a small amount of leeway due to Archibald not being available, as he was a key player in this role teaming up with Sheahan, Haas, or Khaira over the last two seasons.

But at the same time, we're talking about Josh Archibald here, how hard is it to go out and replace a defensive 4th liner? A Brad Richardson, Darren Helm, Nate Thompson, Derek Grant, Zemgus Girgenson, P.E. Bellemare, or even Sheahan would all be better options, and none of those should cost more than a 4th, 5th, or 6th to acquire... All of those guys have a history of playing 2+min on the PK/game, along having key roles on defensive lines at evens, something I wouldn't trust to Sceviour, Shore, or Kassian.

 

[SwedishFire]

Yep. I'll give Holland a small amount of leeway due to Archibald not being available, as he was a key player in this role teaming up with Sheahan, Haas, or Khaira over the last two seasons.

But at the same time, we're talking about Josh Archibald here, how hard is it to go out and replace a defensive 4th liner? A Brad Richardson, Darren Helm, Nate Thompson, Derek Grant, Zemgus Girgenson, P.E. Bellemare, or even Sheahan would all be better options, and none of those should cost more than a 4th, 5th, or 6th to acquire... All of those guys have a history of playing 2+min on the PK/game, along having key roles on defensive lines at evens, something I wouldn't trust to Sceviour, Shore, or Kassian.

I dont get why Holland collects playrr under a certain level. It cant be a top 4th liner or 3rd liner. It has to be that stone hands, hard working, sometimes bonehead penalty taking -4th liner.

The only one I Iiked so far is Sceviour and Shore. Both are 12-13th forward and shouldnt be higher.

Hollands weakness was he had a major bottom 6 piece, Archie. If he fall, one of two fundamental defensive pillars where gone.
So guess what. It happened.

And the reason why Holland hasnt shopped Turris is not because no takers, he is a benchmark, stopgap for holdong youngsters from given spots. Holland has a point with his philosophy, but Turris almost hurts the team.

 

[AddyTheWrath]

 

[JayE]

A fairly similar trajectory to his season with the Flames last year. Tough start to the year which saw him getting regularly benched by the end of Ward's tenure before picking it up and being one of their more consistent players under Sutter in the 2nd half. He's a cerebral player who seems to excel having another cerebral player in RNH to play with. Foegele is a fair bit less cerebral (lol) but has the raw tools to compliment those two quite well. Who know if it's going to last, but they've been excellent the last few games.

 

[Stoneman89]

He's been very good for some time now. I think he may have been injured and playing though it.

 

[Broberg Speed]

He's been very good for some time now. I think he may have been injured and playing though it.

He just looks stronger now and this is a player suited to a structured game. I was down on the player because it looked like he didn't know what the hell he was doing most of the time under Tippett.

Might have been an injury but for all I know it might have been something else. If he can be the useful player he was brought in to be that would be huge. It would be like trading for an extra center at the deadline that has an extra year of term. I'm still hesitant to say he's turned it around but this is a cerebral player.