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[JD1]

Bobby Ryan's agent told Ryan he and EK had been traded to a West Coast team - is that a rumour or the truth?

Someone isn't telling the truth.

i can't seem to find the article at the moment but i am 99% sure that Ryan did not say that his agent TOLD him he was traded....so in this case....unless you want to post a link to a quote where he said that IMO it is you that is not telling the truth

 

[Tnuoc Alucard]

That is incredibly naive. You think teams and players just came to multi year deals worth tens of million by 12:01 every July 1st without having previous conversations?

There is a big difference between a team talking to a player under contract with that team, about a contract extension, vs another team talking to, in this case EK65, at the draft....... which is what the poster was suggesting, and I was replying about.

If you don't know the difference, then there is not point going on.

 

[Tnuoc Alucard]

Bobby Ryan's agent told Ryan he and EK had been traded to a West Coast team - is that a rumour or the truth?

It's a rumour, as far I know.

Bobby Ryan never said his agent said he and EK were traded to a West coast team.

If you've heard otherwise, please share that information with us.

The rumours I've heard that a potential trade of the two to Vegas "got deep", and that Ryan contacted a former teammate in Anaheim (Luca Sbisa ) and asked if had heard anything.

"I got some friends over there and Luca Sbisa is one of my closest. So we kinda talked about it. It would be nice to get back together in that regard." -Ryan
Erik Karlsson And Bobby Ryan React To Possibility Of Being Traded To Vegas - SinBin.vegas

 

[FolignoQuantumLeap]

There is a big difference between a team talking to a player under contract with that team, about a contract extension, vs another team talking to, in this case EK65, at the draft....... which is what the poster was suggesting, and I was replying about.

If you don't know the difference, then there is not point going on.

Teams give permission to trade partners all the time to talk contract with a player they want to acquire. This isn't anything new.

Any team trading for Karlsson will be given permission by Dorion to talk to EK's agents prior to a deal.

 

[danielpalfredsson]

It's a rumour, as far I know.

Bobby Ryan never said his agent said he and EK were traded to a West coast team.

If you've heard otherwise, please share that information with us.

The rumours I've heard that a potential trade of the two to Vegas "got deep", and that Ryan contacted a former teammate in Anaheim (Luca Sbisa ) and asked if had heard anything.

"I got some friends over there and Luca Sbisa is one of my closest. So we kinda talked about it. It would be nice to get back together in that regard." -Ryan
Erik Karlsson And Bobby Ryan React To Possibility Of Being Traded To Vegas - SinBin.vegas

“Me, in particular, I reached out to my agent and said hey listen, I’m sure you’re aware of what’s going on here, and I’m hearing it, and if I’m hearing it, you are. So he told me on Friday (before the deadline) that (being traded) was a very real possibility. And that was the most communication I had. Then it was just kind of sitting. I caught myself looking at stuff online, things like that, Twitter and whatnot, trying to figure out if anybody knew anything. Most of the time it’s just guys speculating. So I tried not to get wrapped up in it.”

Bobby Ryan’s days in Ottawa are likely numbered – and he’s handling it like a pro

 

[danielpalfredsson]

Teams give permission to trade partners all the time to talk contract with a player they want to acquire. This isn't anything new.

Any team trading for Karlsson will be given permission by Dorion to talk to EK's agents prior to a deal.

It's also only tampering if teams actually talk specifics of a contract.

Vegas for example could be given permission by the Senators to speak to Karlsson's agent, and Karlsson's agent could communicate the Erik Karlsson would be happy about being traded to Vegas, that he likes the city, what the organization is doing, etc, etc.

That is not tampering. No different than how Dorion and Karlsson have had meetings, or how Karlsson put out in the media that he wants "what he's worth" and market value. Players and agents can communicate in various ways to establish a common ground without it being tampering.

Vegas would have no way of knowing what Karlsson would want, but they could easily load up capfriendly.com like the rest of us and go "oh that McDavid guy makes 12.5 million so we'd probably have to pay him that at most, while all the other big stars make 10.5 million and he validated Doughty's comments about wanting more than Subban, so that's probably the floor....".

People here guess fairly accurate a range of what players want all the time, and we have significantly less info than guys close to the situation.

 

[Tuna99]

It's a rumour, as far I know.

Bobby Ryan never said his agent said he and EK were traded to a West coast team.

If you've heard otherwise, please share that information with us.

The rumours I've heard that a potential trade of the two to Vegas "got deep", and that Ryan contacted a former teammate in Anaheim (Luca Sbisa ) and asked if had heard anything.

"I got some friends over there and Luca Sbisa is one of my closest. So we kinda talked about it. It would be nice to get back together in that regard." -Ryan
Erik Karlsson And Bobby Ryan React To Possibility Of Being Traded To Vegas - SinBin.vegas

In the end does it matter? Dorion doesn’t come out of the trade deadline looming like an honest person, the fanbase is angry at the owner - and it’s not because of 1 thing, it’s from all of these self inflicted wounds they are trying to crisis manage now with Town Halls, Toronto PR firms and conference calls.

It hurt the team and the fanbase, so it hurt the franchise. Self inflicted wounds, the worst kind in management

 

[Ray Kinsella]

Good god people... who the hell cares who said what to whom, what they were wearing, where they were standing at the time and what they had for breakfast!! It’s completely crazy to argue about stuff like that and such a waste of time. Who cares really on stories of “he said she said” basis. Some of you are way too dead set on being right... and for what exactly... I’m wondering.

We’ll all find out what’s going to happen in due time and this ridiculous bickering will all have made zero difference.

Happy Easter!

 

[FolignoQuantumLeap]

Because Google is hard:

Ryan: Karlsson and I 'thought we were gone' - Article - TSN

However, Ryan admitted Monday both he and Karlsson believed they had been dealt to a Western Conference team the day before the Feb. 26 deadline.
“I heard on Sunday it was done and somebody backed out at the last second,” Ryan told the Ottawa Sun. “Karl and I were like, ‘pack it up.’ We thought we were gone. That’s just the way it goes. Then you’re like, I’ve got to move again?

 

[Sensung]

I find the billboard stuff interesting. I personally don't think there is any correlation between what happens with EK and those billboards. It's going to come down to dollars and cents and term and trade offers. Personally, i could entertain an argument either way on signing him and some of it depends on how the lottery balls fall.

The billboards brought the level of fan dissatisfaction home to the owner/gm and left no doubt they'd have a revolt on their hands if they moved Karlsson. They may still choose to do so, but they now know what they are in for should they go down that road.

Here's something that has not been mentioned on this board, at least not that I've read....I think there's a possibility that some players look at those billboards and say "**** this place, why do i want to be here if the fans are like that"

I get that Melnyk is a bit of a buffoon. More investment would be great and all of that. But if you pay attention and read without bias, just simply read what gets said, you see / read / hear things like what Boro said this week, what Phaneuf said on his way out of town, what Duchene is saying about wanting to be here, what Stone is saying about wanting to be here, what Karlsson himself has said about wanting to be here, what Methot said about not wanting to leave. There are many many quotes from players talking about how well they've been treated here, few negative comments on ownership. Other than the Turris situation making a bad guy of Melnyk, commentary from the players seems quite positive about the environment here and i cannot think about Turris and not recognize that he is a player that has a history of difficult contract negotiations.

Probably hasn't been mentioned before because it is an idiotic and indefensible take on the situation.

Are you really going to suggest that the players like Melnyk as a person or owner?

Are you really trying to suggest that the players are going to be mad at fans for bringing pressure on the owner to run the team properly and spend more on all aspects of the franchise including their salaries?

Sorry, but this is just a ridiculous spin on the situation. The fact that Count supports this post should be all the indication you need.

 

[Agent Zuuuub]

Because Google is hard:

Ryan: Karlsson and I 'thought we were gone' - Article - TSN

Fake news, Dorion said he was going to offer Karlsson a contract on July 1st.

/S

 

[mysens]

Good god people... who the hell cares who said what to whom, what they were wearing, where they were standing at the time and what they had for breakfast!! It’s completely crazy to argue about stuff like that and such a waste of time. Who cares really on stories of “he said she said” basis. Some of you are way too dead set on being right... and for what exactly... I’m wondering.

We’ll all find out what’s going to happen in due time and this ridiculous bickering will all have made zero difference.

Happy Easter!

Oh my lord....did you read what you wrote!!! You just explained exactly who you are....always trying to be right and everyone else is wrong......hahaha, good one Raymond

 

[JD1]

The billboards brought the level of fan dissatisfaction home to the owner/gm and left no doubt they'd have a revolt on their hands if they moved Karlsson. They may still choose to do so, but they now know what they are in for should they go down that road.



Probably hasn't been mentioned before because it is an idiotic and indefensible take on the situation.

Are you really going to suggest that the players like Melnyk as a person or owner?

Are you really trying to suggest that the players are going to be mad at fans for bringing pressure on the owner to run the team properly and spend more on all aspects of the franchise including their salaries?

Sorry, but this is just a ridiculous spin on the situation. The fact that Count supports this post should be all the indication you need.

I personally do not give a shit who likes or dislikes what i post

i am not just suggesting, i am outright stating, that players in this organization refer to being treated well and wanting to stay. Ryan. Stone. Duchene. Karlsson. They have all suggested just in the past 6 weeks that they WANT TO BE HERE. I don't even need to go find links for that, you can do your own searching because they are there. Phaneuf spoke fondly of his time here. Methot bitched about leaving. Boro just came out and supported Melnyk.

Why is it that these guys want to stay? Why are they pissed off when they get traded or unprotected as the case may be?

I don't have insight in to what happens behind the scenes....I can read though and what i read and what i hear in interviews is a long line of players that speak very highly of this organization and wanting to be here.

 

[JD1]

“Me, in particular, I reached out to my agent and said hey listen, I’m sure you’re aware of what’s going on here, and I’m hearing it, and if I’m hearing it, you are. So he told me on Friday (before the deadline) that (being traded) was a very real possibility. And that was the most communication I had. Then it was just kind of sitting. I caught myself looking at stuff online, things like that, Twitter and whatnot, trying to figure out if anybody knew anything. Most of the time it’s just guys speculating. So I tried not to get wrapped up in it.”

Bobby Ryan’s days in Ottawa are likely numbered – and he’s handling it like a pro

the contentious part of this discussion is about his agent telling him he'd been traded. That's the quote i referenced in my post, i believe responding to tuna. It discussed a trade as a very real possibility, it does not say that "my agent told me i was traded" which is how this discussion got started.

 

[Deku]

Why is it that these guys want to stay? Why are they pissed off when they get traded or unprotected as the case may be?

Because they made friends on the team & grew to like the city.
Players being content here doesn't mean Melnyk is an acceptable owner.

 

[Do Make Say Think]

Because Google is hard:

Ryan: Karlsson and I 'thought we were gone' - Article - TSN

If you read more than the headline you'd see that it is far from clear that Ryan knew what was going on.

Lots of noise, his agent told him a trade was not impossible. That is what he said.

But again, people read information to confirm their biases. Not surprising.

 

[Tnuoc Alucard]

Teams give permission to trade partners all the time to talk contract with a player they want to acquire. This isn't anything new.

Any team trading for Karlsson will be given permission by Dorion to talk to EK's agents prior to a deal.

Dorion is NOT allowed, as per conditions of the CBA, to talk to Karlsson about a contract extension, until July 1st this year. If he did, it would be considered tampering.

What makes you think he could give permission to talk to Karlsson, to another team, to talk about a contract extension, before Karlsson has entered the last year of his contract??????

 

[JD1]

Because they made friends on the team & grew to like the city.
Players being content here doesn't mean Melnyk is an acceptable owner.

you must mean acceptable to the fans cause it seems he doesn't have much of an impact in players wanting to leave

 

[Tnuoc Alucard]

qdp

No, I don't want to end up like you, not knowing the rules in the CBA that restricts other teams tampering with other teams players, who are under contract.

there are numerous examples


Jim Benning's comments about Stamkos, Subban cost Canucks $50K | CBC Sports

NHL fines Maple Leafs for tampering

 

[Sensung]

No, I don't want to end up like you, not knowing the rules in the CBA that restricts other teams tampering with other teams players, who are under contract.

there are numerous examples


Jim Benning's comments about Stamkos, Subban cost Canucks $50K | CBC Sports

NHL fines Maple Leafs for tampering

Hey champ, go back and check for a post of mine that states tampering is legal.

Teams and agents talk all the time in private to get a feel for how a player feels. The fact that Benning is stupid enough to get caught by making public comments proves diddly squat.

And if you think NHL teams care about a $50,000 fine you are even more delusional than you appear.

 

[Burrowsaurus]

Dorion is NOT allowed, as per conditions of the CBA, to talk to Karlsson about a contract extension, until July 1st this year. If he did, it would be considered tampering.

What makes you think he could give permission to talk to Karlsson, to another team, to talk about a contract extension, before Karlsson has entered the last year of his contract??????

My answer to this is “rules shmules”

 

[BonkTastic]

Dorion is NOT allowed, as per conditions of the CBA, to talk to Karlsson about a contract extension, until July 1st this year. If he did, it would be considered tampering.

What makes you think he could give permission to talk to Karlsson, to another team, to talk about a contract extension, before Karlsson has entered the last year of his contract??????

Yes, because everyone that breaks the rules is always caught, and is always punished.

Surely no one would ever think to break the rules, especially in secret, in a league where there are no personal repercussions to getting caught, and there is very little policing of these rules, and there is an established culture of breaking exactly these types of rules through unspoken agreements for decades.

 

[Nac Mac Feegle]

Damn. There are a couple posters in here who definitely shouldn't play poker for real money.

 

[FolignoQuantumLeap]

If you read more than the headline you'd see that it is far from clear that Ryan knew what was going on.

Lots of noise, his agent told him a trade was not impossible. That is what he said.

But again, people read information to confirm their biases. Not surprising.

uhhhh, what???? Did you read the article?

 

[NorthCoast]

Karlsson is not getting a 10 team NTC. He is getting a full NMC. Dorion even referenced this possibility sometime last year when discussing how Phaneuf's NTC differed from the rest of the team since they did not sign the contract, and how the Senators standard (outside of one possible player in the future...Erik Karlsson) is a 10 team no trade clause.

Even if Dorion had never referenced it, it's pretty easy to look at Karlsson's stature and assume he is getting a NMC.

Here is my initial question that started this discussion....

"Assuming the premise that we need to clear bad money to keep Karlsson is true.

Would you bundle the 2nd overall pick in a trade with Ryan+Gaborik to keep Karlsson? We would get back future considerations."

So assuming the premise is true....if we extend Karlsson, even if there is potential for Ryan to rebound and be able to be traded for less....if we extend Karl we have to extend him understanding that we are then married to him and thus have to be prepared to pay what might be the same as current day prices to dump those contracts because there is no guarantee that we will see Ryan make a comeback, Gaborik retire, Melnyk sell the team, etc.

Which is why I am asking @Sensung, you, whoever else is interested, what they'd be comfortable paying to dump these contracts in order to create a situation where we can keep Karlsson and remain competitive. So far, I haven't really gotten a clear answer from anybody.

I would be willing to give up low firsts (not a top 10), 2nds and 3rds as needed to dump some of the fat if it meant that we resigned Karlsson allowing for either: 1) Team turns itself around with EK, or 2) EK turns his game around a bit and the team trades him at next years trade deadline for full value (signed for 8 more years). Whatever the difference between the value lost from the dump trades and the additional value gained from trading EK at peak is worth it in my eyes to see if some of the other chips (Gaborik retire, win lottery, EK deal specifics, etc) fall the senators way before making the EK decision.


However, I still strongly disagree with the premise.

First, I meant that for the next year Karlsson still has a 10 team NMC because a full NMC would only kick in when the new contract kicks in. Further, while I know Karlsson would ask for a full NMC, even star players sometimes give into trade windows or the full NMC is delayed a few years...point being that you do not know for sure what he is willing to give on until the deal is signed.

Secondly, I find the full NMC really only come into play when you have an overpriced player on a good team. Usually if the team really sucks then likely both sides will be open to a trade regardless of the NMC.

Next, there are many other ways to clear cap that are better decisions that dealing Ryan and our 2018 first for example. Trade Pageau (has value) with Burrows (has no value). Trade Smith with a B rating prospect, etc. Sure this leaves holes in the line-up but it's easier to replace 3rd and 4th liners than to get another Karlsson.

Finally, I still think all of the above is mute because you didn't respond to my premise: that trading EK is a close to a zero sum equation because revenues/internal cap could fall by as much as the money you save.

So here is your counter-question to answer.

A) Internal Cap = 65 mil. Resign Karlsson 11k & trade Ceci. Cap after EK & Ceci = 54 mil.
B) Internal Cap = 60 mil. Trade EK, resign Ceci 4 mil. Cap after EK & Ceci = 56 mil

Do you really prefer A?