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[Icelevel]

If dahlin is picked (luck) then trade Ceci keep karl

 

[Burrowsaurus]

If dahlin is picked (luck) then trade Ceci keep karl

you like to live right on the edge eh

 

[Micklebot]

Tuna said that "Melnyck cheaped out not ponying up for Methot in expansion" ......... it was confusing to me to say the least.

I think you missed his intent on both his statements, which is why he isn't answering your follow up questions as they make little sense if he initial post was intended as I read it.

Not ponying up for Methot at expansion = not protecting or reacquiring him.

Turris traded days after the comment = Traded days after Karlsson's comment about getting paid what he's worth, not some comments that Turris made.

I could be wrong about the second one, but that's how I read it.

There's certainly an argument to be made that we were better off moving on from both Turris and Methot (though it really didn't pan out that way so far), but the big issue I have is as a team, we can't be both a budget team that constantly seems pays assets to save dollars and a why not us, why not now, all in team competing for the cup. The team has imo sent mixed messages.

 

[Tnuoc Alucard]

The team has imo sent mixed messages.

Statements made by team officials can be spun in more than one way.

Some people hear or read “When we can offer Erik a contract on July 1st, we will do so. I hope this clarifies things. We don’t want to get into specifics on too many players but we think it’s important that we need to mention that.” and spin it to mean "we're trading Erik at the draft".

 

[YouGotAStuGoing]

Statements made by team officials can be spun in more than one way.

Some people hear or read “When we can offer Erik a contract on July 1st, we will do so. I hope this clarifies things. We don’t want to get into specifics on too many players but we think it’s important that we need to mention that.” and spin it to mean "we're trading Erik at the draft".

And some people hear or read “Whatever gets said, the belief is the Ottawa Senators want to try to make this happen and Erik Karlsson wants it to happen, and they have been grinding away in the last two or three days to see if they can,” Friedman said (source) and spin it to mean "the Sens aren't going to trade Erik because nobody in management has ever lied ever in the history of the world ever."

 

[Micklebot]

If dahlin is picked (luck) then trade Ceci keep karl

I guess, but that still leaves us really thin on the right side. Ideal world Ceci should be slotted as a 3 or 4 Dman, heck maybe even a 5 on a team with great D depth, but we're using him as a shutdown 2. If we get Dahlin and Chabot continues to progress, we could actually see Ceci slotted closer to where he belongs very soon.

I guess the real catch is by playing higher than he should be slotted, we've increased his bargaining power, however back in 2015 analytics were approved for use in the arbitration process, which could be a blessing for us. It might be worth taking him to arbitration if his ask is too high, and using his league low fancy stat numbers to keep his salary around where it currently is.

 

[Micklebot]

Statements made by team officials can be spun in more than one way.

Some people hear or read “When we can offer Erik a contract on July 1st, we will do so. I hope this clarifies things. We don’t want to get into specifics on too many players but we think it’s important that we need to mention that.” and spin it to mean "we're trading Erik at the draft".

Ok. What I'm referring to is the "why not us why not now" and "one goal away" talk, followed with not replacing Methot or MacArthur when both were removed from our roster to start the year. We set the expectation that this team was going for it now, talked up how we were one goal away from the SC finals, and then did nothing with the roster to maintain that momentum, and went on to broadcast to the world that we boast among the thinnest management groups in the league.

Why not us why not now has a clear answer; We either can`t afford, or simply don`t want to spend enough to put ourselves into a position to realistically compete for the cup. The reality is the price to compete climbs higher every year as the cap goes up, and while we may see some budget increases along the way, we really don`t seem to do much but try to put a bandage on it.

 

[topshelf15]

If dahlin is picked (luck) then trade Ceci keep karl

I dont really see why we need to move Ceci ,even if we gain Dahlin.....

 

[Nac Mac Feegle]

Whoever created the term gaslighting really has a knack for creating words.

No matter what you type or how many coherent arguments you make, certain posters just won't listen. They have their alternate reality, and that's that. No point even trying to argue with insanity.

 

[danielpalfredsson]

Bob McKenzie on whether Karlsson will be with Ottawa in 18-19. April 9th, TSN 1200.

"Your guess is as good as mine (...) Obviously Ottawa fans have a vested interest in guessing he's coming back, and I understand that, but boy oh boy, I'm not saying it can't happen, because it could, but I'll tell you what, there are a lot of moving parts to him coming back, a lot of things have to fall into place. I'm not sure that they will, but I can't rule it out either."

What "moving parts" could he be referring to?

My Guesses
-The draft lottery (Whether the Senators do or do not get the top pick? Whether a team willing to acquire Karlsson gets one of the top picks that they can use in that trade?)

-Whether the Senators can find an economical way to dump Ryan's contract on a team willing to accept cap dumps for assets like VAN or VGK. I don't think the team can compete with Karlsson, Duchene, Stone, and their other arbitration eligible RFAs/UFAs all getting raises along with the dead money on the books and a limiting player salary budget. Maybe this sentiment is shared by management, meaning a Karlsson extension only gets done if we can find a way to improve our salary situation.

-Whether the trade offers are strong at the draft. I don't think the team is gonna just trade Karl for the best offer if the best offer is terrible. (Keeping in mind, that no offer will give us the same value Karlsson brings, but there's probably a certain value that has to be reached where the trade can be justified)

I don't think Karlsson's willingness to stay factors in as a moving part, unless behind the scenes Karlsson has stated he won't re-sign here, which is not something we've heard. I am guessing, the team already has a good idea what it'd take to sign Karlsson and if he is willing to stay. (Before this can of worms is opened again, I am not suggesting tampering)

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

I dont really see why we need to move Ceci ,even if we gain Dahlin.....

Help afford Karlsson?

 

[Ice-Tray]

Like I said earlier I don't want to get into a semantic argument about the definition of superstar. I gave mine and I'll leave it at that.

Whatever your definition is, which two superstars are you suggesting the sens sign for 8 million each rather than sign Karlsson and Smith?

I'm suggesting that it's worth considering that over an 8 year period we may find ourselves looking for around 8 million for Chabot, Brown, Duchene, Stone, etc... I don't want to start an argument about not signing EK, rather it's worth considering how much a massive long term contract could handicap us.

Chicago is a cautionary tale.

EK at 10 million or so is a risk I think we take.

 

[Burrowsaurus]

Statements made by team officials can be spun in more than one way.

Some people hear or read “When we can offer Erik a contract on July 1st, we will do so. I hope this clarifies things. We don’t want to get into specifics on too many players but we think it’s important that we need to mention that.” and spin it to mean "we're trading Erik at the draft".

no... just not everyone thinks dorions word on this matter is gold especially with EVERYTHING ELSE THAT HAS BEEN SAID

 

[Tnuoc Alucard]

Help afford Karlsson?

Then who plays the second most minutes (after EK65) like Ceci has done for the past three seasons?

 

[topshelf15]

Bob McKenzie on whether Karlsson will be with Ottawa in 18-19. April 9th, TSN 1200.

"Your guess is as good as mine (...) Obviously Ottawa fans have a vested interest in guessing he's coming back, and I understand that, but boy oh boy, I'm not saying it can't happen, because it could, but I'll tell you what, there are a lot of moving parts to him coming back, a lot of things have to fall into place. I'm not sure that they will, but I can't rule it out either."

What "moving parts" could he be referring to?

My Guesses
-The draft lottery (Whether the Senators do or do not get the top pick? Whether a team willing to acquire Karlsson gets one of the top picks that they can use in that trade?)

-Whether the Senators can find an economical way to dump Ryan's contract on a team willing to accept cap dumps for assets like VAN or VGK. I don't think the team can compete with Karlsson, Duchene, Stone, and their other arbitration eligible RFAs/UFAs all getting raises along with the dead money on the books and a limiting player salary budget. Maybe this sentiment is shared by management, meaning a Karlsson extension only gets done if we can find a way to improve our salary situation.

-Whether the trade offers are strong at the draft. I don't think the team is gonna just trade Karl for the best offer if the best offer is terrible. (Keeping in mind, that no offer will give us the same value Karlsson brings, but there's probably a certain value that has to be reached where the trade can be justified)

I don't think Karlsson's willingness to stay factors in as a moving part, unless behind the scenes Karlsson has stated he won't re-sign here, which is not something we've heard. I am guessing, the team already has a good idea what it'd take to sign Karlsson and if he is willing to stay. (Before this can of worms is opened again, I am not suggesting tampering)

EM ,I think needs to forgo the fixed player budget..And just accept we may have to carry some of the dead money into next season..While resigning our key players

 

[Tnuoc Alucard]

no... just not everyone thinks dorions word on this matter is gold especially with EVERYTHING ELSE THAT HAS BEEN SAID

What has Dorion said, in the past, that leads you to think he is deliberately lying to STHs?

 

[topshelf15]

Help afford Karlsson?

We dont need to move anybody for us to resign EK..We just need an owner that is ready to spend a little now to gain later

 

[Ice-Tray]

Well, to this point our budget has risen each year, and we have signed or extended every single core player we have wanted to keep, so there is precedent here to expect further signings.

 

[Tnuoc Alucard]

Well, to this point our budget has risen each year, and we have signed or extended every single core player we have wanted to keep, so there is precedent here to expect further signings.

And each time they re-signed a "core" player, the people who speculated that said player(s) were going to be traded, because the "cheap owner" was not going to pay up for those "core" players.

 

[YouGotAStuGoing]

And each time they re-signed a "core" player, the people who speculated that said player(s) were going to be traded, because the "cheap owner" was not going to pay up for those "core" players.

I think the player expenditures concerns are secondary to scouting and internal team expenditures, but it's not like there's no evidence to support this theory. Turris was moved for contract issues. Zibanejad was moved for a more cost-controlled asset. We've bought draft picks and accepted to send a draft pick in exchange for salary retention. The cheap owner finds ways to cut costs that are not in the best interests of the team's asset management.

 

[topshelf15]

The two players we need to resign that count against next seasons cap are Ceci and Stone,the other two in Duchene and EK count against the following ...We will have more than enough room to resign everyone,ditto money

 

[Tnuoc Alucard]

The two players we need to resign that count against next seasons cap are Ceci and Stone,the other two in Duchene and EK count against the following ...We will have more than enough room to resign everyone,ditto money

excellent point.

 

[Burrowsaurus]

What has Dorion said, in the past, that leads you to think he is deliberately lying to STHs?

I meant everything that has been said on this matter...

I fully believe that dorion will "offer" karlsson a contract. (I don't think the contract will be to karlssons liking, and I think dorion ALREADY knows that. so that when he is traded he can save face.. which is a veerrry standard move. right now... dorion, and karlsson, are preparing/prepared for a trade.

 

[topshelf15]

EK will resign here ,with two conditions...Fair market value,and a blood written promise from the owner to spend to whatever it takes to make this team competitive...The 2nd I fear will be the stumbling block....The budget can no longer be the automatic out clause

 

[Micklebot]

Well, to this point our budget has risen each year, and we have signed or extended every single core player we have wanted to keep, so there is precedent here to expect further signings.

Well, I guess if you assume we didn't want to keep Zibanejad or Turris, then sure. Both guys due for big raises, both traded. If we trade Karlsson or Hoffman this offseason, will it be because we didn't want to keep them?