News Article: Deeper Look at the Tim Thomas Trade

[islandermaniac]

He is neither circumventing the salary floor nor cheating the fans.

and when players like boyes, visnovsky, streit, and nabokov are dealt at the deadline, the tim thomas trade is not helping the new york islanders artificially get to the salary floor? and when those players, who all play key roles on the team, are dealt for futures, the current fans aren't being cheated?

it is impossible for me to disagree with you more, chuck.

 

[doublechili]

Just out of curiosity, does DP's contract count against the cap now that he's in the AHL? Just wondering if the Thomas deal gave the Isles flexibility to send down DP and still trade an asset at the deadline if they want to.

 

[islandermaniac]

Problem is, this isn't true. The Islanders are an above-average team this year and this move ensures they will continue to be one in the future. From a hockey standpoint, it's the exact same reasoning behind keeping Niederreiter, Strome, and Reinhart in the AHL/Juniors.



Or Garth Snow, who is quietly becoming one of the best general managers in the NHL. I realize the Islanders have been a breeding ground for skepticism for quite some time now, but be happy that they finally seem to be turning the corner. At least they're not the New York Mets.

an above average team?

and this team is turning a corner?

you've been drinking your own kool-aid, mr. wang!

 

[cwicemvp12]

and when players like boyes, visnovsky, streit, and nabokov are dealt at the deadline, the tim thomas trade is not helping the new york islanders artificially get to the salary floor?

Read the article.

and when those players, who all play key roles on the team, are dealt for futures, the current fans aren't being cheated?

So you're arguing it would be better for the team and fans if those players are allowed to walk as UFAs at the end of the year as opposed to getting value in return at the trade deadline?

Just out of curiosity, does DP's contract count against the cap now that he's in the AHL? Just wondering if the Thomas deal gave the Isles flexibility to send down DP and still trade an asset at the deadline if they want to.

Yes, DiPietro's contract still counts against the Islanders Upper Limit, and no, adding Thomas didn't give them that flexibility. They could also have done that anyway, it was negotiated in the new CBA. Here's the relevant portion from the outline:

In the case of a one-way SPC, the AA of such SPC less the then applicable NHL Minimum Salary plus $375,000 (e.g., currently $900,000) will be counted against the Club’s Averaged Club Salary

an above average team?

and this team is turning a corner?

you've been drinking your own kool-aid, mr. wang!

The Islanders currently rate well in possession metrics and have good talent throughout their system. I am drinking the Islanders kool-aid because science agrees with my viewpoint.

 

[A Pointed Stick]

Except if you read the article, this move has no bearing on pushing the Islanders over the salary floor this season. Why let facts get in the way of a good narrative?



Problem is, this isn't true. The Islanders are an above-average team this year and this move ensures they will continue to be one in the future. From a hockey standpoint, it's the exact same reasoning behind keeping Niederreiter, Strome, and Reinhart in the AHL/Juniors.



He is neither circumventing the salary floor nor cheating the fans.



Zero cap space is being burned this season. The Islanders are not an Upper Limit team.



Or Garth Snow, who is quietly becoming one of the best general managers in the NHL. I realize the Islanders have been a breeding ground for skepticism for quite some time now, but be happy that they finally seem to be turning the corner. At least they're not the New York Mets.

You make many statements with no supporting facts. The only thing this deal does is underscore that Wang won't let his own GM spend more than the floor, and in regard to the TT deal, allow his master to drop below an acceptable minimum. I get the cheezy angle about appearing above the floor so he can trade assets away later to stay, on average, above the floor. But that goes entirely against the spirit and purpose of the cba minimum, which is to guarantee that the team spend a minimum quantity for the year and field a competative team. Give Garth a bonus point for doing what he can within ridiculous constraints by the owner, but it is not to be applauded because the entire ****ing organization is cheating us and the players out of a more competative roster by using cheap tricks to keep above the floor instead of by actually hiring real players of value.

In the end we are still screwed, and your lie about being an above average team is not appreciated. You are what your record says you are. Currently, that is below average and based on what anyone with any experience would see from this team, it sucks and will for a long time because the only way they augment the roster is by drafting pieces today for hopeful use 8 years from now. That isn't a good plan. That is being a neglectful owner and a yes man GM who is OK with not working for a respectible club.

 

[TheRightWay]

Read the article.



So you're arguing it would be better for the team and fans if those players are allowed to walk as UFAs at the end of the year as opposed to getting value in return at the trade deadline?



Yes, DiPietro's contract still counts against the Islanders Upper Limit, and no, adding Thomas didn't give them that flexibility. They could also have done that anyway, it was negotiated in the new CBA. Here's the relevant portion from the outline:





The Islanders currently rate well in possession metrics and have good talent throughout their system. I am drinking the Islanders kool-aid because science agrees with my viewpoint.

Someone tell Bettman we've been doing it all wrong. Playoff seeding should be based on possession metrics!

You want to talk about "science"? Let's do so.

"Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results." -Albert Einstein


Yup, surely THIS time Wang and his cast of muppets know what they're doing.

 

[cwicemvp12]

You make many statements with no supporting facts. The only thing this deal does is underscore that Wang won't let his own GM spend more than the floor, and in regard to the TT deal, allow his master to drop below an acceptable minimum.

So we're still ignoring that the Islanders would have been above the salary floor, even if they decided to trade Streit and Visnovsky at the trading deadline, had the Thomas deal never been made? Seems like a pretty important supporting fact to me.

But that goes entirely against the spirit and purpose of the cba minimum, which is to guarantee that the team spend a minimum quantity for the year and field a competative team. Give Garth a bonus point for doing what he can within ridiculous constraints by the owner, but it is not to be applauded because the entire ****ing organization is cheating us and the players out of a more competative roster by using cheap tricks to keep above the floor instead of by actually hiring real players of value.

Again, the Isles would have met that minimum had this deal never been made, and they are a competitive team. They just outshot Ottawa, one of the best possession teams this season, 31-25 at even strength today. If their goaltendeing improves, don't be surprised if they make the playoffs.

In the end we are still screwed, and your lie about being an above average team is not appreciated. You are what your record says you are. Currently, that is below average and based on what anyone with any experience would see from this team, it sucks and will for a long time because the only way they augment the roster is by drafting pieces today for hopeful use 8 years from now. That isn't a good plan. That is being a neglectful owner and a yes man GM who is OK with not working for a respectible club.

Except in short stretches, there is a huge amount of luck in shooting percentage, so "you are what your record says you are" isn't true. If it was, why did the 8th seeded LA Kings go 16-4 in the playoffs last spring?

I don't know if this is a Jets/Mets fandom leaking over to the Islanders, but they're actually not being run like a train-wreck anymore.

"Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results." -Albert Einstein

The link in the first paragraph of the article points out how they've changed their approach.

 

[periferal]

I wonder what the reaction would have been had the Rangers or Vancouver or other higher teams made this trade.

They wouldn't. Teams like that actually spend money on players to improve their on ice product...Not their cap situation.

 

[periferal]

The Islanders currently rate well in possession metrics and have good talent throughout their system. I am drinking the Islanders kool-aid because science agrees with my viewpoint.

This is the only scientific evidence you need to ever reference:

http://www.nhl.com/ice/standings.htm?type=lea#&navid=nav-stn-league

 

[Disgraced Cosmonaut]

So we're still ignoring that the Islanders would have been above the salary floor, even if they decided to trade Streit and Visnovsky at the trading deadline, had the Thomas deal never been made? Seems like a pretty important supporting fact to me.



Again, the Isles would have met that minimum had this deal never been made, and they are a competitive team. They just outshot Ottawa, one of the best possession teams this season, 31-25 at even strength today. If their goaltendeing improves, don't be surprised if they make the playoffs.



Except in short stretches, there is a huge amount of luck in shooting percentage, so "you are what your record says you are" isn't true. If it was, why did the 8th seeded LA Kings go 16-4 in the playoffs last spring?

I don't know if this is a Jets/Mets fandom leaking over to the Islanders, but they're actually not being run like a train-wreck anymore.



The link in the first paragraph of the article points out how they've changed their approach.

to me, it's clear that you have a brain. but it's equally clear that you're not an islander fan so much as you are a cw and gs fan... showing up rather conveniently after this article pops up: thanks, but no thanks, ma'am. you sound like our president's chief of staff or other mouthpiece, trying to perform a "jedi mindmeld" (haha, try a jedi mind trick!) over the sad denizens of the isle's hfboards.

but it won't work. we've watched the DP saga and, while it has had its sad parts, there was too much chicanery in that nonsense for even the youngest among us to bite. sure there are some really good-hearted, sensitive people who want good things for everyone, but many people saw the cap floor nonsense for what it was and is.

take this latest brilliance in that context...

fyi- i heralded wang 13 years ago. i even backed the decision to do a ground up rebuild 7 years ago. but the last 3 years have been b.s. mixed with a youth movement. i love the youth, i hate the b.s.

 

[cwicemvp12]

This is the only scientific evidence you need to ever reference:

http://www.nhl.com/ice/standings.htm?type=lea#&navid=nav-stn-league

Find the Stanley Cup Champion

but it's equally clear that you're not an islander fan so much as you are a cw and gs fan... showing up rather conveniently after this article pops up: thanks, but no thanks, ma'am. you sound like our president's chief of staff or other mouthpiece, trying to perform a "jedi mindmeld" (haha, try a jedi mind trick!) over the sad denizens of the isle's hfboards.

To be clear, I'm not defending Charles Wang. I'm simply making the point that the move was great for the the Islanders from a hockey perspective, and wasn't cap circumvention as many portrayed it. Bill Daly has said that the Islanders can't toll the contract forever, and seeing what the league did with the Devils after the Kovalchuk saga, I firmly believe if the Islanders wanted to use Thomas's fake cap hit to spend $39M instead of $44M, that wouldn't be allowed.

Do I think it's fair that you have to put up with an owner that sets an internal budget? Absolutely not, and I think you guys deserve better. However, it's becoming more and more apparent that Snow has been doing his job rather well of late, and deserves some dap. You deserve to be optimistic about the future, and there is officially reason to be. Baseball is starting soon, so you'll be able to flip over to the Mets if you need your masochism fix.

 

[beach]

Find the Stanley Cup Champion



To be clear, I'm not defending Charles Wang. I'm simply making the point that the move was great for the the Islanders from a hockey perspective, and wasn't cap circumvention as many portrayed it. Bill Daly has said that the Islanders can't toll the contract forever, and seeing what the league did with the Devils after the Kovalchuk saga, I firmly believe if the Islanders wanted to use Thomas's fake cap hit to spend $39M instead of $44M, that wouldn't be allowed.

Do I think it's fair that you have to put up with an owner that sets an internal budget? Absolutely not, and I think you guys deserve better. However, it's becoming more and more apparent that Snow has been doing his job rather well of late, and deserves some dap. You deserve to be optimistic about the future, and there is officially reason to be. Baseball is starting soon, so you'll be able to flip over to the Mets if you need your masochism fix.

OK, thanks, bye-bye now.

 

[lacunacoil777]

This guy is great, having fun getting us going. This is what we know. THe Islanders own last place. Every CHarles Wang year. Its a given. Last year, the year before , this year, and next year, and the year after. Last Place. We own it. The Islanders dont try to build a winning team, they throw together the cheapest team the capologists who work for Snow and Wang can put together. IF the NHL had 7 tim thomas players in the league next season the Islanders would trade for all 7 and have a 14 million dollar payroll that magically reaches the cap floor.

 

[Disgraced Cosmonaut]

Find the Stanley Cup Champion



To be clear, I'm not defending Charles Wang. I'm simply making the point that the move was great for the the Islanders from a hockey perspective, and wasn't cap circumvention as many portrayed it. Bill Daly has said that the Islanders can't toll the contract forever, and seeing what the league did with the Devils after the Kovalchuk saga, I firmly believe if the Islanders wanted to use Thomas's fake cap hit to spend $39M instead of $44M, that wouldn't be allowed.

Do I think it's fair that you have to put up with an owner that sets an internal budget? Absolutely not, and I think you guys deserve better. However, it's becoming more and more apparent that Snow has been doing his job rather well of late, and deserves some dap. You deserve to be optimistic about the future, and there is officially reason to be. Baseball is starting soon, so you'll be able to flip over to the Mets if you need your masochism fix.

there was already a thread on apportioning blame to wang over snow. it may be on page 2 by now. in sum, many isles fans know snow isn't a blithering idiot. he's a shill, but not an idiot. having a shill as a GM is bad, but given CW's m.o., c'est la vie. snow's a crutch for a bad man's bad plans. a crutch that's beating the system and the fans (about the neck and shoulders) simultaneously. aka- another man doing what he needs to to make a buck.

depends on who you talk to. if you're CW, then yes.

i'm not sure anyone "deserves" to be optimistic about the islanders. but i am in fact optimistic about the talented mr. john tavares. he deserves to be optimistic, but will he realistically be optimistic? that's the better question, just my opinion.

 

[Cacciaguida]

So we're still ignoring that the Islanders would have been above the salary floor, even if they decided to trade Streit and Visnovsky at the trading deadline, had the Thomas deal never been made? Seems like a pretty important supporting fact to me.



Again, the Isles would have met that minimum had this deal never been made, and they are a competitive team. They just outshot Ottawa, one of the best possession teams this season, 31-25 at even strength today. If their goaltendeing improves, don't be surprised if they make the playoffs.



Except in short stretches, there is a huge amount of luck in shooting percentage, so "you are what your record says you are" isn't true. If it was, why did the 8th seeded LA Kings go 16-4 in the playoffs last spring?

I don't know if this is a Jets/Mets fandom leaking over to the Islanders, but they're actually not being run like a train-wreck anymore.



The link in the first paragraph of the article points out how they've changed their approach.

finally someone with sensibility, not just endlessly whining and complaining.

there's light at the end of the tunnel, we will reach it when Wang finally sells the team or we make the playoffs again.

Dipietro is bought out at the end of the season, finishing the fiasco once and for all.
I wish him well. He sucked, but he meant best.
He'll have plenty of money to do whatever his heart desires.

Thomas probably won't play for us, but his cap hit will allow us to trade our UFAs to get some draft picks to top off the rebuild.

Hopefully we can get the hell out of Nassau as fast as possible, after the draft we can sign some free agents. The final piece is a new coach.

Our core, some free agents, and prospects will be fighting for the limited ice time. We will finally ice a competitive team. We'll sneak in the playoffs, get eliminated quickly.
It'll allow our young players to learn the pace of playoff hockey. After that we'll become a contender. The same happened to Pittsburgh in 06-07.

Teams try to fast-forward/postpone rebuilding, it usually never turns out well. You can look at Calgary for a current example.

the future is bright.

 

[beach]

finally someone with sensibility, not just endlessly whining and complaining.

there's light at the end of the tunnel, we will reach it when Wang finally sells the team or we make the playoffs again.

Dipietro is bought out at the end of the season, finishing the fiasco once and for all.
I wish him well. He sucked, but he meant best.
He'll have plenty of money to do whatever his heart desires.

Thomas probably won't play for us, but his cap hit will allow us to trade our UFAs to get some draft picks to top off the rebuild.

Hopefully we can get the hell out of Nassau as fast as possible, after the draft we can sign some free agents. The final piece is a new coach.

Our core, some free agents, and prospects will be fighting for the limited ice time. We will finally ice a competitive team. We'll sneak in the playoffs, get eliminated quickly.
It'll allow our young players to learn the pace of playoff hockey. After that we'll become a contender. The same happened to Pittsburgh in 06-07.

Teams try to fast-forward/postpone rebuilding, it usually never turns out well. You can look at Calgary for a current example.

the future is bright.

Let's analyze your rainbows and unicorns response shall we?

there's light at the end of the tunnel, we will reach it when Wang finally sells the team or we make the playoffs again.

He still owns the team and we haven't made the playoffs in ages.

Dipietro is bought out at the end of the season, finishing the fiasco once and for all.
I wish him well. He sucked, but he meant best.
He'll have plenty of money to do whatever his heart desires.

You have no idea if he will be bought out.

Thomas probably won't play for us, but his cap hit will allow us to trade our UFAs to get some draft picks to top off the rebuild.

Yes, let's just keep collecting draft picks

Hopefully we can get the hell out of Nassau as fast as possible, after the draft we can sign some free agents. The final piece is a new coach.

We haven't signed any top level FAs in years; Cappy is still here and you have no idea if he will be replaced any time soon.

Our core, some free agents, and prospects will be fighting for the limited ice time. We will finally ice a competitive team. We'll sneak in the playoffs, get eliminated quickly.
It'll allow our young players to learn the pace of playoff hockey. After that we'll become a contender. The same happened to Pittsburgh in 06-07.

When the Ambien wears off, please edit your post to reflect reality.

Teams try to fast-forward/postpone rebuilding, it usually never turns out well. You can look at Calgary for a current example.

Umm, What?

the future is bright.

As bright as the arctic circle in December.

 

[cwicemvp12]

Good post, Cacciaguida. To touch on a few of your points:

Thomas probably won't play for us, but his cap hit will allow us to trade our UFAs to get some draft picks to top off the rebuild.

Thomas wasn't necessary for the Islanders to Trade the UFAs at the deadline. They could have done it anyway. I understand why those ITT are angry at the prospect of the Islanders losing Streit and Visnovsky for nothing more than some picks, but a) nobody says they have to use those picks in the draft - they can trade them in the offseason for roster players if they so desire, and b) if you're not in the playoff race (which I believe they will be), getting a return vs. taking the risk they walk at the end of the year is the correct play to make. All of this is going to hinge on goaltending. Not letting DiPietro near the crease is a great thing, and if Nabokov is finished, Poulin should (hopefully) be at least average.

Hopefully we can get the hell out of Nassau as fast as possible, after the draft we can sign some free agents. The final piece is a new coach.

Getting out of Nassau is going to be a huge boost, and hopefully the visibility of Brooklyn propels a new owner and allows the team to start opening their wallet.

Teams try to fast-forward/postpone rebuilding, it usually never turns out well. You can look at Calgary for a current example.

I'd argue the Leafs are a better example. Burke tried to mask the fact that they weren't very good with the Kessel trade, and one player isn't going to propel you over the top. They lost two top-end assets in the draft which as a whole made the trade a lateral move instead of waiting it out and being ahead in the long-run.

the future is bright.

Indeed.

 

[A Pointed Stick]

So we're still ignoring that the Islanders would have been above the salary floor, even if they decided to trade Streit and Visnovsky at the trading deadline, had the Thomas deal never been made? Seems like a pretty important supporting fact to me.

Again, the Isles would have met that minimum had this deal never been made, and they are a competitive team...

We would? Based on which set of numbers? Our Cap payroll is 52.8 Mill. Take out TT's # and it is 47.8 Mill. The cap floor this year is 44 Mill. Streit makes 4.1 mill, and Visnovsky makes 5.6 Mill. Take out either one and we go below the floor because there is only 3.7 mill in space. If you wait until April 5th with 20% of the season left and move both that means you barely stay above - ok. But that is a hell of a message to send that early in the season when you are in the playoff hunt.

But wait, let's think outside of the box. How about instead of picking up a phantom contract, we actually trade for a REAL LIVE PLAYER. Wow, imagine that, a real honest to goodness player who can pass and shoot and do things better than 80% of the team as currently composed. Imagine that, you actually IMPROVE the club with a real player who costs millions of dollars instead of paying a shadow to occupy the salary box for your hockey illiterate owner. Then because you picked up a real live player, you can trade a different real live player for more parts to your build. I know this is a hard formula to follow, but trust me, it has been done before, and I hear it might be done again by at least one more team in the next century. But what do I know, I just want to improve the club now and in the future, as opposed to Garth and Wang who are only concerned about keeping the salary as close to zero as possible and not adding anything that could help the kids develop properly. Yeah, about that whole "supporting cast" thing... I see you don't really care too much for that, huh?

You also need to see things through the filter of history. We are carrying over 6 million of BS salary owed directly to Charles Wang making the first and second worst contract offers in the history of hockey to Yashin and DiPietro. If WANG had any humility at all he would not hold us and Garth hostage to those evil, awful mistakes. Our salary floor internally should not include those numbers. They do. Many here know that rightfully are angered to see Wang doing anything possible to pay the least amount of money for something, like TT's contract. It is a fake cap hit that costs Chucky nothing. Just like Ricky D when he is reimbursed by insurance every time golden boy's hips explode.

And as I told someone else in here, just wait until WANG collects that league revenue check and uses it to bandage over the gaping wound in his buttocks left by Nassau County's jerking him over, and not by putting it back into the roster. When we ice an equally putrid lineup next season at league minimum this and every other Islander fan base is going to be pretty outraged.

They just outshot Ottawa, one of the best possession teams this season, 31-25 at even strength today. If their goaltendeing improves, don't be surprised if they make the playoffs.

You don't really get Ottawa's system, do you? The Isles did a better job today than last time, but one gets the sense it is a Herculean effort getting them to do much against physical teams, or good defensive teams. Many of their shots were from the outside which is part of the system Ottawa uses to win. I have seen this before and many times the Isles lose because of it. We could have put 100 shots on net. If they are from the perimeter with lots of daylight even a mediocre goaltender will stop them. It also does not address the biggest problem for this club as in the past, that where we let up too many GAs. We don't have the talent of San Jose or Tampa to just go all offense. And in the end if you are a student of the game and it's history you already know all offense and no defense is not how solid teams win in the end.

Except in short stretches, there is a huge amount of luck in shooting percentage, so "you are what your record says you are" isn't true. If it was, why did the 8th seeded LA Kings go 16-4 in the playoffs last spring?

When the Kings make it into the playoffs with a .400 record get back to me. Until that time you've got nothing.

I don't know if this is a Jets/Mets fandom leaking over to the Islanders, but they're actually not being run like a train-wreck anymore.

Garth's path is much better than Milbury's, but he is a non factor ultimately. The train wreck is still in progress due to WANG.

 

[cwicemvp12]

We would? Based on which set of numbers? Our Cap payroll is 52.8 Mill. Take out TT's # and it is 47.8 Mill. The cap floor this year is 44 Mill. Streit makes 4.1 mill, and Visnovsky makes 5.6 Mill. Take out either one and we go below the floor because there is only 3.7 mill in space. If you wait until April 5th you could possibly move one without defaulting, but definitely not both. There will be 20% of the season left to play so 20% of both Vis & Mark's salaries is 4.5 mill. So no, you can't move both without picking up TT.

Again, you're wrong. This isn't how the Lower Limit is calculated, it's on a per-day basis. Read the article.

But wait, let's think outside of the box. How about instead of picking up a phantom contract, we actually trade for a REAL LIVE PLAYER. Wow, imagine that, a real honest to goodness player who can pass and shoot and do things better than 80% of the team as currently composed. Imagine that, you actually IMPROVE the club with a real player who costs millions of dollars instead of paying a shadow to occupy the salary box for your hockey illiterate owner. Then because you picked up a real live player, you can trade a different real live player for more parts to your build. I know this is a hard formula to follow, but trust me, it has been done before, and I hear it might be done again\ by at least one more team in the next century. But what do I know, I just want to improve the club now and in the future, as opposed to Garth and Wang who are only concerned about keeping the salary as close to zero as possible and not add anything that could help the kids develop properly. Yeah, about that whole "supporting cast" thing... I see you don't really care too much for that, huh?

Read the article.

You don't really get Ottawa's game much, do you? They did a much better job today than last time, but one gets the sense it is a Herculean effort getting them to do much against physical teams, or good defensive teams. Many of their shots were from the outside which is part of the system Ottawa uses to win. I have seen this before and many times the Isles lose because of it. We could have put 100 shots on net. If they are from the perimeter with lots of daylight even a mediocre goaltender will stop them. It also does not address the biggest problem for this club as in the past, that where we let up too many GAs. We don't have the talent of San Jose or Tampa to just go all offense. And in the end if you are a student of the game and it's history you already know all offense and no defense is not how solid teams win in the end.

Taking a shot from the outside is better than taking no shot at all because it ensures you're in the correct end of the ice, which would also help you not get scored on.

When the Kings make it into the playoffs with a .400 record get back to me. Until that time you've got nothing.

This makes no sense and does nothing to answer how the Kings won the championship when they were apparently the 13th best team in the league according to their record.

 

[TheRightWay]

Some random blogspot post, and then a brand new poster comes and solely addresses this thread? Maybe not, but seems to me that the guy who wrote that article came here to passive aggressively defend himself under a puppet account.

 

[A Pointed Stick]

Again, you're wrong. This isn't how the Lower Limit is calculated, it's on a per-day basis. Read the article.

See above. I had gone back and edited after reading my post. Hey it's late, but my point remains about adding a real player. If you think TT's playing for us next year you are wrong. In fact I don't think he will play for anyone and may be done with hockey as a player. Some people like Potvin and a few others don't want to take the Paul Coffey exit. Some want to go with the sun still shining on their back. If so we won't even be able to trade him for anything.

Taking a shot from the outside is better than taking no shot at all because it ensures you're in the correct end of the ice, which would also help you not get scored on.

True, but not much better. I've seen teams stone other teams all night allowing just that. It also says nothing about our inadequacies.
1) No size - we have a top six composed of Marys. They couldn't play a smash mouth game if you paid them to, which is why games agaisnt teams like Philly are automatic losses. the same is true for our defense. We have Travis, and Carkner when he isn't suspended or injured, and that's it. Our bottom six is where all of our physicality is, and that means you suck in the NHL. You can't walk into a season with automatic losses in those games and call yourself "competitive."
2) No top end talent outside of Tavares and Hamonic. For all of our high end picks, most are underwhelming depth players. Strome and Reinhart will hopefully be parts 3 & 4, and this years lotto pick will likely be #5, but if the team does it's mediocre best to be 6-10 in the pick dept, don't hold your breath.

This makes no sense and does nothing to answer how the Kings won the championship when they were apparently the 13th best team in the league according to their record.

You said this club is above average. I said it's record isn't, so it isn't. You said look at the Kings last year. I did. They were above average in points. You are the one without an argument.

 

[lacunacoil777]

Word going around the league now is instead of players asking for no trade clauses in new contracts, they are inserting no trade to the Islanders when teams wont give them the no trade at all demand.

 

[cwicemvp12]

If you think TT's playing for us next year you are wrong.

Maybe, but if TT wants to come back and get paid on his next contract, he has no leverage if the Islanders say "play for us for a year and then go wherever you want."

In fact I don't think he will play for anyone and may be done with hockey as a player. Some people like Potvin and a few others don't want to take the Paul Coffey exit. Some want to go with the sun still shining on their back. If so we won't even be able to trade him for anything.

That could be true, but you also won't have lost anything in the process. It's a freeroll.

True, but not much better. I've seen teams stone other teams all night allowing just that. It also says nothing about our inadequacies.
1) No size - we have a top six composed of Marys. They couldn't play a smash mouth game if you paid them to, which is why games agaisnt teams like Philly are automatic losses. the same is true for our defense. We have Travis, and Carkner when he isn't suspended or injured, and that's it. Our bottom six is where all of our physicality is, and that means you suck in the NHL. You can't walk into a season with automatic losses in those games and call yourself "competitive."
2) Not top end talent outside of Tavares and Hamonic. For all of our high end picks, most are underwhelming depth players. Strome and Reinhart will hopefully be parts 3 & 4, and this years lotto pick will likely be #5, but if the team does it's mediocre best to be 6-10 in the pick dept, don't hold your breath.

You're selling the Islanders far too short. Moulson, Streit, Visnovsky, Nielsen, MacDonald, Okposo, and Grabner are all very good players, and Keith Aucoin is underrated. Also, last I checked, the Blackhawks were last in the NHL in hits. I think they're making out just fine this year.

At the end of the day, the idea is to possess the puck and score goals, and the Islanders were 5th in the league in goals for before today. If their goaltending improves, wins will come.

You said this club is above average. I said it's record isn't, so it isn't. You said look at the Kings last year. I did. They were above average in points. You are the one without an argument.

That's a strawman. The Kings were supposedly a below average playoff team, yet lost four games all playoffs.

Edit: forgot to address this

my point remains about adding a real player.

If Thomas wants to come back, the Islanders will have his rights even if they never plan to play him. They can trade him for a real player, which was clearly pointed out in the article.

 

[Cacciaguida]

Since apparently I'm popping pills for being the slight bit optimistic. I'll make the quotes nice and colorful because of puppies and sunshine.


He still owns the team and we haven't made the playoffs in ages.

Is rebuilding such a hard concept to understand? Once the team value rises; he'll see no reason to hold onto them.


You have no idea if he will be bought out.

Are you ****ing kidding? No, please tell me if you're joking. If Wang allowed the buy out Yashin, a productive player at the time. I have no doubts that he'll ditch a backup ECHL goalie. Why wouldn't he buy him out, they practically made a rule in the CBA for him!

If they do buy him out, and Wang sells the team. It's not his expense anymore.


Yes, let's just keep collecting draft picks

Yellow is very hard to read.
like I said, we are still rebuilding, now we're teetering on the edge of it.


We haven't signed any top level FAs in years; Cappy is still here and you have no idea if he will be replaced any time soon.

A skilled young team with a state of the art arena will attract players no doubt, in Brooklyn no less. We're not in Nassau no more. And we won't be wishing upon our ruby slippers to go back.
Cappy's terrible coaching will get him fired eventually. All it takes is a losing steak.


When the Ambien wears off, please edit your post to reflect reality.

Please take some yourself, and get off your cynical pedestal.

 

[Richie Daggers Crime]

So you're arguing it would be better for the team and fans if those players are allowed to walk as UFAs at the end of the year as opposed to getting value in return at the trade deadline?

No, it would be better for the team and the fans if the franchise was run with the interest of putting the best possible product on the ice, not saving as much cash as possible.

This move, in a vacuum, isn't the problem. It's the big picture of why this move was made that's the issue.