Proposal: DeBrincat to Ottawa

[99ovr]

Nobody is going to argue that potential is a good thing.

He has never played pro hockey you have no idea if he will be elite in any aspect.

You have to be penciling in Owen Power for the Hall of Fame right?

Haha no to Owen Power. But you're right potential is a good thing and not guaranteed, Sanderson could end up as a 2nd pairing defenseman but that's extremely unlikely. I'd prefer the defensemen who has the potential to be top 5 in their position vs. a winger who's not remotely close to being top 5 in their position (and all the other things I mentioned like being 5'7 and likely not able to produce as well without an very elite playmaker).

 

[BHawk21]

Haha no to Owen Power. But you're right potential is a good thing and not guaranteed, Sanderson could end up as a 2nd pairing defenseman but that's extremely unlikely. I'd prefer the defensemen who has the potential to be top 5 in their position vs. a winger who's not remotely close to being top 5 in their position (and all the other things I mentioned like being 5'7 and likely not able to produce as well without an very elite playmaker).

Debrincat in 24 and is a top 10 goal scorer the last 5 years and top 5 the last 2 years while being a PPG. No reason to discredit Debrincat to prop up Sanderson.

Why no to Owen Power he has just as much potential as Sanderson if not more?

 

[99ovr]

Debrincat in 24 and is a top 10 goal scorer the last 5 years and top 5 the last 2 years while being a PPG. No reason to discredit Debrincat to prop up Sanderson.

Why no to Owen Power he has just as much potential as Sanderson if not more?

To be fair my tone on Debrincat is way too negative, I do believe he's a great player I'm just skeptical he would be able to produce at a 40g and PPG pace without someone like Kane. For example, Panarin's numbers have actually been better since he left Chicago, putting up great numbers in CBJ playing with nobody special and putting up unbelievable numbers since arriving in NYR.

Also all Sens homer bias aside, I do believe Sanderson is a better prospect than Power but if people believe Power is better then that's totally valid. Their defensive upside is comparable, Sanderson's pure defense is better with respect to IQ and stickwork but Power's size evens that out and could possibly give him the edge. However, Sanderson unequivocally has the better offensive upside and is more dynamic. He put up 1.1ppg playing with literally no noteworthy forwards meanwhile Power put up 0.99ppg playing with 3 top 5 draft picks (Beniers, Hughes, Johnson) and 2 solid forward prospects (Brisson and Bordeleau). If you watch their offensive highlights over the past 2 years I would be hard pressed to find anyone that thinks Power has higher offensive upside. Again, if people believe Power is the better prospect that's totally valid.

 

[Agent Zuuuub]

Agreed.

24 Year old PPG 40 Goal Winger Vs 2nd best defensive prospect in the world.

Both teams rebuilding. I dunno. I think most GMs take the sure thing.

naw, Sanderson is special. I'm not willing to risk trading him for DeBrincat even if Jake still has a chance to bust.

The upside is too much to walk away from.

 

[Golden_Jet]

Sanderson is going to win a Norris or two? Wow the hopes are sure high. This kid hasnt played 1 second in pro hockey...

2 Norris Trophys

Doug Harvey
Pierre Pilote
Bobby Orr
Denis Potvin
Larry Robinson
Paul Coffey
Chris Chelios
Ray Bourque
Brian Leetch
Nick Lidstrom
Duncan Keith

Erik Karlsson

 

[yogibear]

 

[ColbyChaos]

A good portion of his goals are coming from cross crease open tap-ins from P.Kane that anyone with a modicum of skill can finish. Of course he can create his own offense too, good playmaking, good IQ, crazy good shot and surprisingly has good two-way game, Not sure how I feel about him in the playoffs though.

I think he's a great player but his goals are inflated, there's no way he'll be as valuable as a prime Chabot or a prime Sanderson (potential top 5D in the league). I'd rather keep 7OA to have cost control for 7-11 years of a quality prospect like Gauthier or Kemmel.

He had 40 playing primarily with Strome and Kahun/Perlini...

He has 160 Goals and 147 assists

One dimensional

 

[hawksrule]

Debrincat is insanely overrated I wouldn`t give up our 7OA for him alone

L.O.L.

 

[Silky Johnson]

Sanderson is going to win a Norris or two? Wow the hopes are sure high. This kid hasnt played 1 second in pro hockey...

2 Norris Trophys

Doug Harvey
Pierre Pilote
Bobby Orr
Denis Potvin
Larry Robinson
Paul Coffey
Chris Chelios
Ray Bourque
Brian Leetch
Nick Lidstrom
Duncan Keith

And Erik Karlsson, who I think Sanderson will be a better (two-way) defenceman than. But I did say "...or two...". So that would increase the list of comparables.

Or Maybe...just maybe I was being a bit hyperbolic to make a point.

Regardless, I will rephrase and say he has a very good chance of becoming a Norris caliber Defensman. That is more valuable than almost (with many notable exceptions) any winger. Debrincat has value but he will NEVER be that valuable...EVER.

 

[BHawk21]

And Erik Karlsson, who I think Sanderson will be a better (two-way) defenceman than. But I did say "...or two...". So that would increase the list of comparables.

Or Maybe...just maybe I was being a bit hyperbolic to make a point.

Regardless, I will rephrase and say he has a very good chance of becoming a Norris caliber Defensman. That is more valuable than almost (with many notable exceptions) any winger. Debrincat has value but he will NEVER be that valuable...EVER.

Sure you may get Ekblad Jones Makar or Nurse but you may also get Gudbranson Larsson Reinhart Juolevi. May very well be worth the risk but dont count him as a norris guy already.

 

[Imnotagoodposter]

Senators fans said the same thing when Dallas fans asked what it would take to acquire Karlsson and we collectively said Heiskanen.

Prospects the caliber of Sanderson aren’t traded. Just as simple as that.

7th overall, Ridley Greig, Lassi Thomson/JBD and Connor Brown/Alex Formenton would be an excellent package IMO for Chicago given they don’t have their first this year.

So a top ten pick in a weak year, a potential third liner, a choice between two d prospects that project to be bottom pairing guys, and a choice between two elite third liners, one of whom is fast approaching 30. Wtf

 

[BradyTkachucky]

Sanderson is going to win a Norris or two? Wow the hopes are sure high. This kid hasnt played 1 second in pro hockey...

2 Norris Trophys

Doug Harvey
Pierre Pilote
Bobby Orr
Denis Potvin
Larry Robinson
Paul Coffey
Chris Chelios
Ray Bourque
Brian Leetch
Nick Lidstrom
Duncan Keith

+ Erik Karlsson

 

[stempniaksen]

So a top ten pick in a weak year, a potential third liner, a choice between two d prospects that project to be bottom pairing guys, and a choice between two elite third liners, one of whom is fast approaching 30. Wtf

I understand the sentiment if you believe those are the upsides for Greig/Lassi/JBD, but I can assure you that NHL execs disagree with you.

There's no quantity for quality deal that makes sense here for Chicago and Ottawa is (likely) going to find their top-six winger for less. Bit of a moot point honestly. Interesting to discuss the values, but this only happens in dreamland.

 

[GermanSpitfire]

So a top ten pick in a weak year, a potential third liner, a choice between two d prospects that project to be bottom pairing guys, and a choice between two elite third liners, one of whom is fast approaching 30. Wtf

The statement of a top 10 pick in a weak year statement just proves you don’t know much about the draft class.

 

[Tufted Titmouse]

And Erik Karlsson, who I think Sanderson will be a better (two-way) defenceman than. But I did say "...or two...". So that would increase the list of comparables.

Or Maybe...just maybe I was being a bit hyperbolic to make a point.

Regardless, I will rephrase and say he has a very good chance of becoming a Norris caliber Defensman. That is more valuable than almost (with many notable exceptions) any winger. Debrincat has value but he will NEVER be that valuable...EVER.

Wow, those are some high hopes.

A Norris or two, and better than Erik Karlsson. Unreal.

Prime Erik Karlsson had a higher impact on a game than any modern defenceman, including Hedman and Makar. I've seen nothing to think that Sanderson will be rubbing elbows with Makar, McAvoy and Fox.

 

[HugeInTheShire]

Today I learned that Jake Sanderson will win multiple Norris trophies and be better than Erik Karlsson.
I did not know that.

Also Ottawa should not trade him for DeBrincat but if they were to try for him Pinto should be a nice starting point

 

[stempniaksen]

I've seen nothing to think that Sanderson will be rubbing elbows with Makar, McAvoy and Fox.

Sanderson's last year in college blew MCAvoy's out of the water. That's not to say he's going to come in and light the world on fire, but that seemed like an odd add to the list. Sanderson's numbers are roughly equivalent to Makar's numbers in his last season as well. Fox is tough to judge since he played the extra year, but he wasn't even (quite) PPG in his 2nd NCAA season.

I don't value Sanderson as high as (some) of those guys, but the season he just had in North Dakota absolutely puts him (close to) on par with those guys as prospects. TBD if he came make the same kind of impact at the next level.

 

[Qward]

Not interested in giving up what it would take to get him.

 

[Silky Johnson]

Wow, those are some high hopes.

A Norris or two, and better than Erik Karlsson. Unreal.

Prime Erik Karlsson had a higher impact on a game than any modern defenceman, including Hedman and Makar. I've seen nothing to think that Sanderson will be rubbing elbows with Makar, McAvoy and Fox.

I watched probably every game Erik Karlsson played for the Senators and was a huge fan. His peak was very short because of injury. Had it been longer he would be likely in the Bourque/Lidstrom tier, but that didn't happen.

I think Sanderson is as good a skater at the same age and is a late bloomer offensively. Will he ever be peak Karlsson offensively, very unlikely. However, he will likely be far better than Karlsson defensively and have a more balanced career.

If you don't see any parallels with Fox and Makar then you didn't watch him this season. Had he not gotten unlucky with some injuries he would have won the Hobey Baker on a pretty mediocre team. He is insanely dynamic and just getting better.

Will he reach that potential? I think so but it could go either way. However, you do not trade a potentially "special" Defencemen for a "pretty good" Winger like Debrincat. Especially when you are in the part of a rebuild that Ottawa is in. Sanderson is exactly what Ottawa needs, even if he only hits his floor, which I see as pretty high (great skating, 30-40point, 22-25 minute , shutdown defenceman).

Sure you may get Ekblad Jones Makar or Nurse but you may also get Gudbranson Larsson Reinhart Juolevi. May very well be worth the risk but dont count him as a norris guy already.

Gudbranson, Larsson, Reinhart and Juolevi.

Who are four guys who can't skate anywhere near as well as Jake Sanderson?

He doesn't have that floor without serious injury.

 

[BHawk21]

Debrincat being a "pretty good winger" just hurts your credibility. Defensively responsible 40 goal scorers at 24 years old dont grow on trees.

 

[BHawk21]

I watched probably every game Erik Karlsson played for the Senators and was a huge fan. His peak was very short because of injury. Had it been longer he would be likely in the Bourque/Lidstrom tier, but that didn't happen.

I think Sanderson is as good a skater at the same age and is a late bloomer offensively. Will he ever be peak Karlsson offensively, very unlikely. However, he will likely be far better than Karlsson defensively and have a more balanced career.

If you don't see any parallels with Fox and Makar then you didn't watch him this season. Had he not gotten unlucky with some injuries he would have won the Hobey Baker on a pretty mediocre team. He is insanely dynamic and just getting better.

Will he reach that potential? I think so but it could go either way. However, you do not trade a potentially "special" Defencemen for a "pretty good" Winger like Debrincat. Especially when you are in the part of a rebuild that Ottawa is in. Sanderson is exactly what Ottawa needs, even if he only hits his floor, which I see as pretty high (great skating, 30-40point, 22-25 minute , shutdown defenceman).


Gudbranson, Larsson, Reinhart and Juolevi.

Who are four guys who can't skate anywhere near as well as Jake Sanderson?

He doesn't have that floor without serious injury.

Ok, your right no way he can ever be anything but a #1D. SMH

 

[Silky Johnson]

Debrincat being a "pretty good winger" just hurts your credibility. Defensively responsible 40 goal scorers at 24 years old dont grow on trees.

Ad hominem attacks aren't required when discussing subjective opinions and descriptions.

He is pretty good for an NHL player. That's better than just good. I just don't consider him elite or special. He plays with one of the best players in the world which boosts his stats. He had a pretty mediocre 2019-20 and he is a winger. Let's not forget that he is a smurf and the physical game does matter in the NHL. That being said he has alot of positives too.

 

[Silky Johnson]

Ok, your right no way he can ever be anything but a #1D. SMH

If he maxed out at what I said his floor is, he would play on Ottawa's second pairing. I stand by my evaluation. Guys who skate like him, especially while having his IQ and hands, don't end up like Gudbranson, Larsson, Reinhart or Juolevi.

 

[BHawk21]

Ad hominem attacks aren't required when discussing subjective opinions and descriptions.

He is pretty good for an NHL player. That's better than just good. I just don't consider him elite or special. He plays with one of the best players in the world which boosts his stats. He had a pretty mediocre 2019-20 and he is a winger. Let's not forget that he is a smurf and the physical game does matter in the NHL. That being said he has alot of positives too.

Pretty good for an NHL player...HELP.

 

[thesaadfather]

Ad hominem attacks aren't required when discussing subjective opinions and descriptions.

He is pretty good for an NHL player. That's better than just good. I just don't consider him elite or special. He plays with one of the best players in the world which boosts his stats. He had a pretty mediocre 2019-20 and he is a winger. Let's not forget that he is a smurf and the physical game does matter in the NHL. That being said he has alot of positives too.

You can believe what you want, but he's right, when you say things like this, it makes people question you as an evaluator. You can say that he's not elite, but I think the vast majority of people would disagree with you. Sure, he plays with Kane, but he's put up better numbers than every other player Kane has played with in his career, on much worse teams. He has 2 40 goal seasons and is a great two-way player. He's absolutely an elite winger.