DC's The Penguin (Colin Farrell)

[Dubi Doo]

Slight spoilers

'We're like f...f...f...f...f...family' well, he did treat him like a brother!

Damn, Oz, you are a heartless bastard. I also <3 the ending.

'No one's in your way now'
Well, except the most badass mofo in the city!

 

[Osprey]

I finally watched the finale. That was excellent.

I really liked the series overall for many of the same reasons that I did Andor. That was an espionage/spy thriller for adults that happened to be set in the Star Wars universe, but without Jedi, lightsabers and the like, while this was a gangster story for adults that happened to be set in the DC universe, but without Batman, Joker and the like.

Besides Farrell for Best Actor and Milioti for Best Actress, I wouldn't be surprised if Deirdre O'Connell snags a nomination for Best Supporting Actress.

I wonder if, like Shogun, this'll clean up at the Emmys and eventually get a renewal despite originally being a "limited series." It would have to wait, but I don't see why they couldn't return to it in a few years, after the next movie. Maybe that would be a mistake, but, dang it, I want more.

Spoiler

Nice call.

Thanks. It seemed like the obvious way to end the show.

 

[John Price]

Took me a while but I sat down last night and finally watched through episode 1. I really liked it so far. Eager to see how the rest of this series goes.

 

[The Shadow]

Spoiler

is it possible that Francis (mom) was brainwashed to take her anger out on Oz and hate him thus the stabbing. Surely after all those years she forgave him and loved him. Or did she ever love him at all?

Also did Oz really love his mother that much or was it more about what he gets from his mother being proud of him. The feeling of her being proud versus her as a person

I finally watched the finale. That was excellent.

I really liked the series overall for many of the same reasons that I did Andor. That was an espionage/spy thriller for adults that happened to be set in the Star Wars universe, but without Jedi, lightsabers and the like, while this was a gangster story for adults that happened to be set in the DC universe, but without Batman, Joker and the like.

Besides Farrell for Best Actor and Milioti for Best Actress, I wouldn't be surprised if Deirdre O'Connell snags a nomination for Best Supporting Actress.

I wonder if, like Shogun, this'll clean up at the Emmys and eventually get a renewal despite originally being a "limited series." It would have to wait, but I don't see why they couldn't return to it in a few years, after the next movie. Maybe that would be a mistake, but, dang it, I want more.

Thanks. It seemed like the obvious way to end the show.

I agree with this. I liked how it was in that Gotham world but didn’t have Batman in it.

 

[Gee Wally]

HBO hit it out of the park!

 

[HanSolo]

Spoiler

is it possible that Francis (mom) was brainwashed to take her anger out on Oz and hate him thus the stabbing. Surely after all those years she forgave him and loved him. Or did she ever love him at all?

Also did Oz really love his mother that much or was it more about what he gets from his mother being proud of him. The feeling of her being proud versus her as a person



I agree with this. I liked how it was in that Gotham world but didn’t have Batman in it.

Spoiler

I think that's part of what makes that aspect of the show so well written. There's no hard answer. Oz is shown to have clear attachment and insecurity issues. But the show hits you on the head with that. It also makes a firm point to show the viewer that Oz was driven by his promise to his mother as a child to do whatever it takes to make a better life for himself and her and that she--in spite of hating him for murdering his brothers--did everything to encourage Oz to be the most successful criminal he could be. So from there, you could easily conclude that it's his mother's fault for guiding and molding him to become what he was.

But then you have to consider that as a child, before he killed his brothers, he was already dissatisfied with his family's position in life, already glorified gangsters, and was already willing to kill his family just to have his mother to himself. And it begs the question, would Oz have taken the same path in life whether he killed his brothers or not? Would he have walked the same path if his mother had tried to steer him away from a life of crime? As Oz fought to climb his way up the ranks he takes gleeful pleasure in beating his enemies and revels at the end in becoming "the King".

It's fair to ask how much of that came from fulfilling his promise and how much is his own psychopathic need to be seen as the best and not just a clubfooted outcast that no one would take seriously if not for his criminal achievements. As much as Oz seems driven by his promise to his mother, he also seems driven by his fascination with being seen as the hero of the neighborhood Rex Calabrese type he grew up idolizing, with a world view that dictated he needed to overcome a cruel world to become that man. I think both of these things worked in tandem and informed each other. I think Oz really did love his mother but she was also the key to validating his life choices with her approval.

I think Francis is a little less complex but it's still just as fascinating that after knowing what Oz did to her sons, she still decided to raise him to be the best gangster he could he so he could be her golden goose. The most consistent theme across all mob movies and shows is that the mob life may be a path to success but it's one that can and often does exact a heavy price. Both Francis' and Sophia's story incorporate this theme but with stories that feel original. And at the end of the day, Francis was a monster in her a own right. Certainly not at Oz's level but her choices helped create the monster Oz became. The choice between that and just having Oz killed, her pathways forward were not mutually exclusive. She chose to stoke Oz's psychopathy, rather than try to suppress it and have both live and try to find success as honest and good people. She didn't want that. She hoped that in spite of how much she hated her son, that if he followed in Rex Calabrese's footsteps, he'd provide her with a better life.

I typed all that and didn't even really talk about Sophia's or Vic's respective stories...very well written show

 

[Dubi Doo]

Spoiler

is it possible that Francis (mom) was brainwashed to take her anger out on Oz and hate him thus the stabbing. Surely after all those years she forgave him and loved him. Or did she ever love him at all?

Also did Oz really love his mother that much or was it more about what he gets from his mother being proud of him. The feeling of her being proud versus her as a person



I agree with this. I liked how it was in that Gotham world but didn’t have Batman in it.

Spoiler

I'm pretty sure she hated him. Remember the gangsta trying to sell her on the idea of Oz becoming like him because Oz has that evil in him. He said Oz has the potential for great things + he would be incredibly loyal to her. At the dance Oz tells her he's going to give her the world reinforcing what the gangsta said earlier (that'd Oz would loyal and ruthless enough to conquer Gotham). That was what enticed her the most, imo. But I'm sure the potential of losing her last son played a smaller role + her having to make the final call on whether he'd go on the 'ride'.

I think Oz truly loved her. At least as much as he's capable of loving. He still puts himself #1, but part of the reason he killed Vic is because he felt himself getting too close to him. Atleast that's what he says while he's choking him. Though, I do think he figured Vic knew too much, and wanted to cut out any loose ends as well.

 

[Osprey]

Spoiler

I think Francis is a little less complex but it's still just as fascinating that after knowing what Oz did to her sons, she still decided to raise him to be the best gangster he could he so he could be her golden goose. The most consistent theme across all mob movies and shows is that the mob life may be a path to success but it's one that can and often does exact a heavy price. Both Francis' and Sophia's story incorporate this theme but with stories that feel original. And at the end of the day, Francis was a monster in her a own right. Certainly not at Oz's level but her choices helped create the monster Oz became. The choice between that and just having Oz killed, her pathways forward were not mutually exclusive. She chose to stoke Oz's psychopathy, rather than try to suppress it and have both live and try to find success as honest and good people. She didn't want that. She hoped that in spite of how much she hated her son, that if he followed in Rex Calabrese's footsteps, he'd provide her with a better life.

Spoiler

My interpretation isn't so much that she spared him so that he could become a gangster and provide her with a better life, but because she had emotional needs similar to his. She needed to be loved as much as he did and, despite what he did, he was the only one who loved her, not to mention the only one who understood her and saw the beauty in her. Sacrificing him would've left her all alone and unappreciated, so she decided for that selfish reason to keep him in her life. I'm not sure that she "hated" him, but she hadn't forgiven him. There was resentment there that she had suppressed for a long time, but Sofia uncovered it and stoked it.

 

[HanSolo]

Spoiler

My interpretation isn't so much that she spared him so that he could become a gangster and provide her with a better life, but because she had emotional needs similar to his. She needed to be loved as much as he did and, despite what he did, he was the only one who loved her, not to mention the only one who understood her and saw the beauty in her. Sacrificing him would've left her all alone and unappreciated, so she decided for that selfish reason to keep him in her life. I'm not sure that she "hated" him, but she hadn't forgiven him. There was resentment there that she had suppressed for a long time, but Sofia uncovered it and stoked it.

Yeah my conclusion was a bit reductive. I think there's a bit of both with her.

 

[eXile3]

As great as it was I hope they keep to one season. He’ll be in other Batman movies.

I hope they take another character and delve into them in a similar manner. Make the character feel real in the world they live in.

Lots of good characters they could expand on in a similar way.

 

[Andy]

I did not expect that ending. The penguin is a sick man.

 

[Arthur Morgan]

best show on tv. love the ending I mean I hated seeing that happen but just reminding you he's the bad guy

 

[DaaaaB's]

I thought it was really good but not great. Kind of a cartoony version of The Sopranos. Enjoyable but kind of dumb how The Penguin constantly got into tough situations only to easily get out of them. Milotti was amazing, Farrell was ok but found him grating at times and seemed like he was doing an over the top Tony Soprano impression.

 

[Rodgerwilco]

Finished this tonight. Absolutely loved it. Incredible show from beginning to end.

Love how they really get to the depth of Oz at the end there. There are a lot of times in the series you can find yourself rooting for him. And then they bring you back to reality and like @Arthur Morgan said, remind you that he is the bad guy after all.

Beautifully well done series. Would love to see this team do another series in Gotham. The Batman Rogues Gallery is absolutely chock-full of nasty characters just waiting to be explored.

 

[Voight]

best show on tv. love the ending I mean I hated seeing that happen but just reminding you he's the bad guy

Gotta tie up loose ends now that hes at the top, he knew nobody would be looking for Vic's killer since he had no family or girlfriend, hence why he took the money, threw the ID and made it look like a mugging.

Wish there had been an episode showing his rise from busboy to a high ranking Falcone member, but still a great series.

 

[Arthur Morgan]

Gotta tie up loose ends now that hes at the top, he knew nobody would be looking for Vic's killer since he had no family or girlfriend, hence why he took the money, threw the ID and made it look like a mugging.

Wish there had been an episode showing his rise from busboy to a high ranking Falcone member, but still a great series.

hmm I didn't put that together thx for that, I liked Vic but I kinda like how what happened happened, Os didn't seem all that bad or maybe its because everyone is the hero in their own story but reminded me quick that he's a bad guy lol

 

[Voight]

hmm I didn't put that together thx for that, I liked Vic but I kinda like how what happened happened, Os didn't seem all that bad or maybe its because everyone is the hero in their own story but reminded me quick that he's a bad guy lol

It does a good job of making you feel bad for him (i.e. loyal soldier who the bosses demean constantly and treat like shit, guy just wants to take care of his mother etc)

 

[alko]

You buy a sympathy for Penguin and at the end they throw it away...

I would give it 8/10. Overall good show, but not so great as i anticipated.

I will vote to not continue with Penguin. But in such style to focus to another villains in this universe.

 

[The Shadow]

You buy a sympathy for Penguin and at the end they throw it away...

I would give it 8/10. Overall good show, but not so great as i anticipated.

I will vote to not continue with Penguin. But in such style to focus to another villains in this universe.

What do you mean ‘you buy sympathy’?

What did they throw away?

 

[Scotianhab]

The reason The Penguin worked out so well as a stand alone show imo is because of his early days in the mob dealing with the Falcones & Maronis. Most of the other villains in the Batman series don’t have that background or a similar situation to see them rise up. Catwoman who they hinted at in the finale would be the next logical choice.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

The ending scene brought people back to reality like when…

Spoiler

Tony kills Chris in the Sopranos. The writers aren’t subtle about reminding us Tony and Oswald are narcissistic, evil men