Prospect Info: David Reinbacher

[MasterD]

Depends of your meaning of lighting it up. I'd say that to be top 2 on a great team, you need at least 50 points. Heiskanen isn't Makar. But look at every d-man that plays a lot of minutes...chances are those d-men will have at least 45 points. A bare minimum. While most top end guys will have way more than that.

The NHL had 29 dmen with 45+ points this year.
Top 2 dmen on a NHL team would be top 64 in the league, right?

64th dman in the NHL had 28 points the year.


Salbutera said top 2, you're talking about elite.

 

[salbutera]

Depends of your meaning of lighting it up. I'd say that to be top 2 on a great team, you need at least 50 points. Heiskanen isn't Makar. But look at every d-man that plays a lot of minutes...chances are those d-men will have at least 45 points. A bare minimum. While most top end guys will have way more than that.

45 pts is fair

Pietrangelo is a 46 pts career avg, Slavin is a 37pts career avg both defensive powerhouses who puck transition w the best of them … I expect Redenbacher to be in that range

Many of the “top end” stat Ds are defensively flawed and those flaws tend to get exposed in playoffs

 

[ReHabs]

The NHL had 29 dmen with 45+ points this year.
Top 2 dmen on a NHL team would be top 64 in the league, right?

64th dman in the NHL had 28 points the year.


Salbutera said top 2, you're talking about elite.

You should look at only playoff teams or teams within striking distance at the playoffs. A better filter would be to only look at teams that won a first round in the last two years-- something like that. There are a lot of rubbish teams in the NHL that have rubbish rosters and hopeless players in over their heads. In no way, shape, or form, would I expect the 64th scoring d-man in the NHL to be a top2 dman or the 32nd scoring centreman to be a 1st line C.

There are probably no more than 30-40 top2 dmen across the NHL right now. Probably even fewer.

 

[MasterD]

You should look at only playoff teams or teams within striking distance at the playoffs. A better filter would be to only look at teams that won a first round in the last two years-- something like that. There are a lot of rubbish teams in the NHL that have rubbish rosters and hopeless players in over their heads. In no way, shape, or form, would I expect the 64th scoring d-man in the NHL to be a top2 dman or the 32nd scoring centreman to be a 1st line C.

There are probably no more than 30-40 top2 dmen across the NHL right now. Probably even fewer.

Again, you're defining elite top-2 dmen and 1st line c.

There are 32 1st line Cs and 64 top-2 dmen in the modern NHL.

 

[ReHabs]

Again, you're defining elite top-2 dmen and 1st line c.

There are 32 1st line Cs and 64 top-2 dmen in the modern NHL.

Depends on how you define it -- we can use de facto and de jure to distinguish between the two. By fact of the matter, yes on any given playing night there are 32 1st line Cs in the NHL and 64 top-2 dmen... But you'd have to put a gun to my head and cock the trigger for me to accept any argument that says David Desharnais was ever a 1st line C. In reality there are garbage rosters that have hopeless players playing 1st C or top2 D. Habs fans should know, we've been tanking for three years now with garbage rosters and hopeless players.

If we're looking at the real goal -- playoff success -- we should filter out the hopeless, rubbish rosters and evaluate what actually good teams look like. I bet you their top2 dmen are more closer to the ideal top2 dmen than the top2 dmen on the Sharks and Coyotes.

 

[HankyZetts]

How is Michkov more Gaudreau than Kucherov? And let's not forget people were saying Kessel and Stamkos were guys you don't win cups with for age

Kucherov is a special kind of animal in the playoffs. He is legit one of the best playoff performers of all-time. Hard to compare him to that, but my point was that while Gaudreau is an offensive superstar, Wyatt is the kind of player that is built for the NHL playoffs.

 

[SannywithoutCompy]

Kucherov is a special kind of animal in the playoffs. He is legit one of the best playoff performers of all-time. Hard to compare him to that, but my point was that while Gaudreau is an offensive superstar, Wyatt is the kind of player that is built for the NHL playoffs.

Right, but we don't know if he's built for the NHL playoffs until he plays in them. You wouldn't think Briere, Kucherov, or Kane would be built for the playoffs but they dominate there. He's as competitive as they come, scores a lot from dirty areas, and hasn't disappointed in tournaments so far. Beyond that it's tough to say how he'll do in the playoffs, but nothing is suggesting he WON'T be good in them

 

[HankyZetts]

For all we know, and from what I've seen, Michkov is one of the most intense/competitive players in the world.

I've literally read scouting reports saying that he regularly cheats offensively

 

[Miller Time]

Depends of your meaning of lighting it up. I'd say that to be top 2 on a great team, you need at least 50 points. Heiskanen isn't Makar. But look at every d-man that plays a lot of minutes...chances are those d-men will have at least 45 points. A bare minimum. While most top end guys will have way more than that.

For dmen on the final four teams this year:

Rangers #2(pts) = 31p / #2 toi/g = 30p
Panthers #2(pts) = 33p / #2 toi/g = 39p
Oilers #2(pts) = 45p / #2 toi/g = 32p
Stars #2(pts) = 47p /#2 toi/g = 47p

None of the final 4 teams had a #2 dman with 50pts, only 1 of them had a #2 (in usage) that had 40+ points.

6 of the top 20 dmen in toi/g this season had <50pts.

 

[DAChampion]

For dmen on the final four teams this year:

Rangers #2(pts) = 31p / #2 toi/g = 30p
Panthers #2(pts) = 33p / #2 toi/g = 39p
Oilers #2(pts) = 45p / #2 toi/g = 32p
Stars #2(pts) = 47p /#2 toi/g = 47p

None of the final 4 teams had a #2 dman with 50pts, only 1 of them had a #2 (in usage) that had 40+ points.

6 of the top 20 dmen in toi/g this season had <50pts.

Did you prorate to 82 games?

 

[HankyZetts]

Right, but we don't know if he's built for the NHL playoffs until he plays in them. You wouldn't think Briere, Kucherov, or Kane would be built for the playoffs but they dominate there. He's as competitive as they come, scores a lot from dirty areas, and hasn't disappointed in tournaments so far. Beyond that it's tough to say how he'll do in the playoffs, but nothing is suggesting he WON'T be good in them

Of course, I agree that we won't know until we know. I'm just speaking on how the Habs management team is likely projecting these guys for the draft.
Heiskanen has been so dominant that it's hard to imagine teams not valuing players like him ahead of top line offensive forwards.

 

[Deleted member 257557]

It is not hard to predict that if/when Michkov turns into what he was projected, Habs current management will never hear the end of it.

I’m sure guys like you will make sure we all do.

If they trade Reinbacher do they get Michkov back or is this conversation completely useless and was already old a year ago?

 

[Mrb1p]

I've literally read scouting reports saying that he regularly cheats offensively

So does Kucherov. Cheating offensively is a function of high octane offense.

 

[Habs Halifax]

45 pts is fair

Pietrangelo is a 46 pts career avg, Slavin is a 37pts career avg both defensive powerhouses who puck transition w the best of them … I expect Redenbacher to be in that range

Many of the “top end” stat Ds are defensively flawed and those flaws tend to get exposed in playoffs

Reinbacher to me will be like a H Lindholm type. I hope he has more offensive to provide but my gut tells me he is a complete D man that the coach rides 20-25 min a game type. 25-35 pts range as career average but a few 40+ seasons mixed in (maybe).

So does Kucherov. Cheating offensively is a function of high octane offense.

100% agree. This works even better with Tampa who have sound D and goaltending. Not so much on the Leafs.

Of course, I agree that we won't know until we know. I'm just speaking on how the Habs management team is likely projecting these guys for the draft.
Heiskanen has been so dominant that it's hard to imagine teams not valuing players like him ahead of top line offensive forwards.

Comes down to if those D end up being what you think they can be. We got to be careful with naming guys like Makar and Heiskanen because for every hit like that, there are 20 misses.

 

[Kobe Armstrong]

Again, you're defining elite top-2 dmen and 1st line c.

There are 32 1st line Cs and 64 top-2 dmen in the modern NHL.

But this is just purely semantics and doesn't change the point @ReHabs is making

Is the rebuild complete if we have the 32nd best C, the 32nd best G, and the 63rd and 64th best D?

Of course not, but on your paper they would have everything they need

 

[NORiculous]

I’m sure guys like you will make sure we all do.

If they trade Reinbacher do they get Michkov back or is this conversation completely useless and was already old a year ago?

I wasn’t part of the Gomez crowd, were you? I wasn’t part of the Drouin/Sergachev crowd, were you? Those are the two examples that popped in my head while reading your message but I am sure there are a lot more.

Michkov is relevant because the Habs might now even get a forward in the next draft or they might get someone with a lower potential like iginla, etc.

 

[DAChampion]

But this is just purely semantics and doesn't change the point @ReHabs is making

Is the rebuild complete if we have the 32nd best C, the 32nd best G, and the 63rd and 64th best D?

Of course not, but on your paper they would have everything they need

I agree with @ReHabs .

I think a fairer metric by the sum of ranks of top three forwards and top two d. They're all technically sound if the suns add up to 412, i.e. the 94th, 95th, and 96th best forward, and the 63rd and 64th best D. Is that what we want?

I'm going to guess that with good goaltending and depth, you can compete if the suns are around 210.

So Desharnais might be ok if you have Subban and Markov on D.

 

[Deleted member 257557]

I wasn’t part of the Gomez crowd, were you? I wasn’t part of the Drouin/Sergachev crowd, were you? Those are the two examples that popped in my head while reading your message but I am sure there are a lot more.

Michkov is relevant because the Habs might now even get a forward in the next draft or they might get someone with a lower potential like iginla, etc.

Pretty sure the Gomez vs McDonnah and Drouin vs Sergachev crowds were riffing off actual results of veteran players and not two completely unrelated guys who don’t even play the same position and have never touched nhl ice, but I think I get your point? I agreed with the RB pick at the time, I don’t remember many “omg not McDonnah or Sergachev” crowds at the time of those trades, only hindsight.

 

[Adam Michaels]

So does Kucherov. Cheating offensively is a function of high octane offense.

Not to mention, you can teach a player to improve their defensive game.

What I'm curious for Michkov is his coacc at SKA saying that the agreement to let Michkov play for Philly is in the condition he plays on the top line. Or else they will call him back to the KHL. And my curiosity is mainly how Torts will handle that. Because if there's one thing he doesn't do is hand players ice time and opportunities.

 

[HankyZetts]

Comes down to if those D end up being what you think they can be. We got to be careful with naming guys like Makar and Heiskanen because for every hit like that, there are 20 misses.

Again, of course we will only know when we know. This is all about projections.
Kucherov is as rare as heiskanen/makar in his own right. So there's no guarantee any prospect will match his hall of Fame career either.

 

[HankyZetts]

So does Kucherov. Cheating offensively is a function of high octane offense.

So michkov isn't "one of the most intense/competitive players in the world" as you stated?
Or are you saying that camping at the red line is a competitive way to play playoff hockey?

 

[Runner77]

Not to mention, you can teach a player to improve their defensive game.

What I'm curious for Michkov is his coacc at SKA saying that the agreement to let Michkov play for Philly is in the condition he plays on the top line. Or else they will call him back to the KHL. And my curiosity is mainly how Torts will handle that. Because if there's one thing he doesn't do is hand players ice time and opportunities.

The top line comment appears to be an error in translation. I believe his SKA coach meant top club (ie Michkov not ending up in the AHL). I’ve seen a few individuals make the distinction but not an official translator.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Not to mention, you can teach a player to improve their defensive game.

What I'm curious for Michkov is his coacc at SKA saying that the agreement to let Michkov play for Philly is in the condition he plays on the top line. Or else they will call him back to the KHL. And my curiosity is mainly how Torts will handle that. Because if there's one thing he doesn't do is hand players ice time and opportunities.

Got to ask yourself why did they have him on loan? If SKA believed in him that much, they would have facilitated a spot for him and groomed him with limited min's like it was with Romanov. Now they have agreed to terminate the contract. Why? I would assume that if they had high hopes for him, they would have had him play out this coming year at least. Get some value of him on the ice and helping them win.

Something tells me there is a behind the scenes deal where money was transferred (somehow). And SKA said, sure, we get money out of it for a player they had to specially manage.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Again, of course we will only know when we know. This is all about projections.
Kucherov is as rare as heiskanen/makar in his own right. So there's no guarantee any prospect will match his hall of Fame career either.

Yeah, there is no guarantees. The point is it's rare. Reinbacher to me is someone like H Lindholm... Or he might have some sort of game like Dobson. Some sort of mix between the two is my guess.

 

[WeThreeKings]

The top line comment appears to be an error in translation. I believe his SKA coach meant top club (ie Michkov not ending up in the AHL). I’ve seen a few individuals make the distinction but not an official translator.

Regardless, any KHL team interested in winning being happy to let a player go with 2 years left on his contract, who is supposed to be a 'challenger to Bedard' makes you question a few things.