Prospect Info: David Reinbacher

[JoelWarlord]

People compared Slafkovsky to Jagr as well. People say silly things, you should try to keep an even keel.

For sure, but I think the relevance in this case is that the intensity of the arguments around drafting Michkov are to a large degree predicated on those lofty projections being accurate. Of course you could still be justified in arguing Michkov was the right pick even if you projected him as something closer to "just" a great 1st line forward (eg a Caufield-plus, or Stutzle type of player) and not an ultra megastar franchise/generational talent, but at that point it's just a normal prospect debate with pros and cons either way, not glaring organizational malpractice to pass on him for Reinbacher.

Of course he doesn't need to be Guy Lafleur, but Michkov needs to be SPECIAL or at the very least align with this Kaprizov floor/Kucherov ceiling idea that was common in the draft threads for this level of anger to be justified IMO. It's of course also fully reasonable for people to believe he's that good, but you (as in a general "you", not you specifically) can't really be apoplectic about passing on Michkov but also wishy-washy on whether he's actually a superstar or just a Tarasenko/Stutzle/better Caufield.

 

[ReHabs]

For sure, but I think the relevance in this case is that the intensity of the arguments around drafting Michkov are to a large degree predicated on those lofty projections being accurate. Of course you could still be justified in arguing Michkov was the right pick even if you projected him as something closer to "just" a great 1st line forward (eg a Caufield-plus, or Stutzle type of player) and not an ultra megastar franchise/generational talent, but at that point it's just a normal prospect debate with pros and cons either way, not glaring organizational malpractice to pass on him for Reinbacher.

Of course he doesn't need to be Guy Lafleur, but Michkov needs to be SPECIAL or at the very least align with this Kaprizov floor/Kucherov ceiling idea that was common in the draft threads for this level of anger to be justified IMO (it's of course also fully reasonable for people to believe he's that good, but you (as in a general "you", not you specifically) can't really be apoplectic about passing on Michkov but also wishy-washy on whether he's actually a superstar or just a Tarasenko/Stutzle/better Caufield.

I disagree actually -- even if Michkov is only as good at forward as Reinbacher is at defence, it is perfectly justifiable for a Habs supporter to be frustrated that the organization which has not had an elite forward in decades would eschew one in favour of the defenceman. We've had the luck of enjoying many very good defenceman in the past two decades but not forwards -- it's perfectly fair to want a team that plays loose hockey to have an elite forward rather than an elite dman, if it was given the choice.

We haven't had a Tarasenko or Stutzle. Caufield isn't one yet either.

McDavid lead the NHL with 153 points this year, our leading scorer got less than half of that with 66 points. You can't say that there is pressure on Michkov to prove himself worthy of the hype. Players bust all the time. The matter of picking one or the other at the draft has everything to do with their perceived upside. Michkov the forward vs Reinbacher the dman, despite organizational weaknesses up front, they choose Reinbacher.

All that said I don't think the intensity of the discussion was wrong or bad and I think the Habs organization has made its bed precisely how they wanted. Much like the Bergevin-Timmins regime, these guys Bobrov-Lapointe-Hughes stick with their convictions and do not particularly second-guess themselves when it comes to expectations. Confidence without results, however, is arrogance. We'll see which it is with Hughes.

I won't even try to shoe-horn the "D-2" comment but suffice to say I believe Hughes simply wasn't interested in Michkov. Time will tell if we have a confident manager or an arrogant one, and at this rate we should know pretty quick.

 

[mistaclick]

He was the best defenseman available and is a lock to become a top-4 dman. This was a great pick. Scouted him through the year, he’s not really dynamic offensively like Hutson but he shines when defending his zone and defending in transition. Still puts up points though. Real top pairing upside with a safe floor to be a minute munching dman. Seems like a real leader and high character guy, too. Michkov easily could bust but even if he doesn’t, you guys need a dman like this and hes the kind of dman you need to draft and develop because they are hard to come by through trade/FA. I’m jealous and will be watching his growth into a 1-2D stud.

He probably would’ve been taken at 6 or 7 if anything anyways, so there’s no way they should’ve traded down. Great pick, takes balls to do but probably the right choice. I don’t think Michkov will make them regret this, in my own opinion.
From a Leafs fan!

 

[Runner77]

Or he could have worded it differently, sure, but anyone who's been involved in group decision making recognizes that a consensus doesn't not necessarily mean no-one had differing views on the decision ultimately reached.

These kind of things go without saying...but the problem is you've got a fanbase that's very emotional and looking for more meaning into everything the GM is saying right now.

Yes, clearly why my comment was meant in jest.

I didn't personally see any meme, was just supporting a point advanced by @JoelWarlord

The issues with bringing up underlings to support the views of their direct overseer is that we don’t have context, we have to take his word for it and we can’t get them to express their views. That kind of stuff is and should remain internal.

Which is why I just find it’s superfluous to use them as a means to justify a decision. If anything, it invited more scrutiny than needed. The GM has final say so let him defend the selection using other, more objective rationales.

 

[salbutera]

Since when did “dynamic” become important for Dman?

Habs big-3 (Robinson, Savard, Lapointe) were not “dynamic”, Lidstrom was not “dynamic”, Pietrangelo isn’t “dynamic”

 

[417]

The issues with bringing up underlings to support the views of their direct overseer is that we don’t have context, we have to take his word for it and we can’t get them to express their views. That kind of stuff is and should remain internal.

Which is why I just find it’s superfluous to use them as a means to justify a decision. If anything, it invited more scrutiny than needed. The GM has final say so let him defend the selection using other, more objective rationales.

100% agreed...my comment was more to say that unanimous, doesn't necessary imply that it was an echo chamber.

 

[Toene]

Since when did “dynamic” become important for Dman?

Habs big-3 (Robinson, Savard, Lapointe) were not “dynamic”, Lidstrom was not “dynamic”, Pietrangelo isn’t “dynamic”

All these players were dynamic.

 

[dinodebino]

Having a problem with the choice is one; calling him a Nazi because he comes from Austria like Adolf, that’s another. And forcing the kid to withdraw a post of him getting drafted because of hate messages is another blemish on this passionate but sometimes ridiculous and idiot fanbase. J’ai honte. Gang de cromagnons.

 

[dinodebino]

I’ll go as far as to say that I blame the Habs for this fiasco; read the room! You know your stupid fanbase will act stupid, prepare the message in advance. Préparez le terrain. Prepare the fans to Reinbacher!

I blame Chantal’s team here and the hockey division. Just like with the Mailloux draft, they were ill prepared to read the room. Basic comms 101.

 

[Archijerej]

I disagree actually -- even if Michkov is only as good at forward as Reinbacher is at defence, it is perfectly justifiable for a Habs supporter to be frustrated that the organization which has not had an elite forward in decades would eschew one in favour of the defenceman. We've had the luck of enjoying many very good defenceman in the past two decades but not forwards -- it's perfectly fair to want a team that plays loose hockey to have an elite forward rather than an elite dman, if it was given the choice.

Frustration is fine, but what you are describing is ultimately a matter of personal preference. A perfectly valid preference mind you, especially from the point of view of a fan. That said, HuGo is not being criticized for his adherence to a particular style of hockey, which might not be to the fans' liking. They are being declared incompetent muppets for selecting one player over the other.

 

[jrom]

I’ll go as far as to say that I blame the Habs for this fiasco; read the room! You know your stupid fanbase will act stupid, prepare the message in advance. Préparez le terrain. Prepare the fans to Reinbacher!

I blame Chantal’s team here and the hockey division. Just like with the Mailloux draft, they were ill prepared to read the room. Basic comms 101.

I think they were trying to incite another team to draft or move up to draft Michkov so they stayed coy but everyone passed and it kinda exploded in their face PR wise

 

[Runner77]

I’ll go as far as to say that I blame the Habs for this fiasco; read the room! You know your stupid fanbase will act stupid, prepare the message in advance. Préparez le terrain. Prepare the fans to Reinbacher!

I blame Chantal’s team here and the hockey division. Just like with the Mailloux draft, they were ill prepared to read the room. Basic comms 101.

To be fair, we can’t use the actions of the judgment impaired few to define a whole fan base.

Yes, they ought to be called out and dealt with. But, the vast majority are good people who just love their team and their players. It’s unfair to put them all in the same boat.

So many on this forum have called out the abhorrent actions of those responsible so in the end, soundness of mind prevails.

 

[Milhouse40]

I’ll go as far as to say that I blame the Habs for this fiasco; read the room! You know your stupid fanbase will act stupid, prepare the message in advance. Préparez le terrain. Prepare the fans to Reinbacher!

I blame Chantal’s team here and the hockey division. Just like with the Mailloux draft, they were ill prepared to read the room. Basic comms 101.

And if Reinbacher is picked at 4?
Then what? If Smith was available?

They could prepare it if they picked 1st or 2nd, but after that, it really depend on who is being picked before, can't start a media operation if they're not sure.

 

[Harry Kakalovich]

Since when did “dynamic” become important for Dman?

Habs big-3 (Robinson, Savard, Lapointe) were not “dynamic”, Lidstrom was not “dynamic”, Pietrangelo isn’t “dynamic”

I believe that would be because it's now important to knock a kid with any criticism one can find, because "WAH! they didn't pick the guy I like..."

 

[Kennerback]

I’ll go as far as to say that I blame the Habs for this fiasco; read the room! You know your stupid fanbase will act stupid, prepare the message in advance. Préparez le terrain. Prepare the fans to Reinbacher!

I blame Chantal’s team here and the hockey division. Just like with the Mailloux draft, they were ill prepared to read the room. Basic comms 101.

Several posts before the draft said there could be issues for the club and the player drafted if you pass on an elite player. If you do, marketing needs to be top notch.

Typical answer from the club confederates on this board was to skirt the question entirely saying if you think HuGo will be influenced by the public you don’t know them.

PS: Another PR issue will be the Mailloux Bettman review to see if he has the character to join the NHL. Let’s hope the club does better. If not, good times ahead.

 

[Harry Kakalovich]

I’ll go as far as to say that I blame the Habs for this fiasco; read the room! You know your stupid fanbase will act stupid, prepare the message in advance. Préparez le terrain. Prepare the fans to Reinbacher!

I blame Chantal’s team here and the hockey division. Just like with the Mailloux draft, they were ill prepared to read the room. Basic comms 101.

Yes. Also it's partially Reinbacher's fault for playing better than Michkov. He should have really allowed Michkov to be the 2nd best player in the draft. It was rather selfish of DR really. DR really hurt Michkov's feelings AND all of Michkov's draft fans.

The Habs and David Reinbacher are to blame. The fans and Matvei Michkov are actually the victims here...

 

[Adam Michaels]

 

[Goldthorpe]

I’ll go as far as to say that I blame the Habs for this fiasco; read the room! You know your stupid fanbase will act stupid, prepare the message in advance. Préparez le terrain. Prepare the fans to Reinbacher!

I'm not sure super geeky communities like HF are big enough for professional franchises and their personnel to know their general feelings or reactions about the draft. The vast majority of hockey fans don't follow it nor care about prospects in general.

So yeah, they could have seen it come, but I think their surprised reaction to the blowback are genuine. They know fans can be crazy but they can't never know for what all the time. In their mind, the Michkov case as a potential pick could have been settle days or weeks before for whatever reason, and they could have not know there were still online debates about it.

 

[Schooner Guy]

That's so awesome! That young girl's parents ought to be super proud of her beautiful heart.

I love it when children put imbecile grown-ups to shame!

 

[dinodebino]

To be fair, we can’t use the actions of the judgment impaired few to define a whole fan base.

Yes, they ought to be called out and dealt with. But, the vast majority are good people who just love their team and their players. It’s unfair to put them all in the same boat.

So many on this forum have called out the abhorrent actions of those responsible so in the end, soundness of mind prevails.

There are more idiots in this fan base than you think. Sorry man. I disagree. This fan base can be toxic.

And if Reinbacher is picked at 4?
Then what? If Smith was available?

They could prepare it if they picked 1st or 2nd, but after that, it really depend on who is being picked before, can't start a media operation if they're not sure.

No one before 5 was taking him. That was a given. The top 4 was in frikkin ciment.

 

[dinodebino]

Yes. Also it's partially Reinbacher's fault for playing better than Michkov. He should have really allowed Michkov to be the 2nd best player in the draft. It was rather selfish of DR really. DR really hurt Michkov's feelings AND all of Michkov's draft fans.

The Habs and David Reinbacher are to blame. The fans and Matvei Michkov are actually the victims here...

You make fun of it, but they f***ed up. Simple as that. Any PR person with experience would say the same. Read the room is rule number one. They did not. I like Chantal but she’s very kumbaya. This needed a real PR person to prep up the hockey team. I know comms and this was a miss. All the way.

 

[JoelWarlord]

I disagree actually -- even if Michkov is only as good at forward as Reinbacher is at defence, it is perfectly justifiable for a Habs supporter to be frustrated that the organization which has not had an elite forward in decades would eschew one in favour of the defenceman.

Fair enough, I wouldn't fault fans for being frustrated and/or just wanting a forward. I'm mostly talking about the idea it's objectively (or as close as it could be to objective in a hockey prospect context) complete malpractice to go with Reinbacher, which I think does require a very lofty projection of Michkov given that forward vs. D wasn't the only factor either and it was such a unique situation off the ice.

 

[Harry Kakalovich]

You make fun of it, but they f***ed up. Simple as that. Any PR person with experience would say the same. Read the room is rule number one. They did not. I like Chantal but she’s very kumbaya. This needed a real PR person to prep up the hockey team. I know comms and this was a miss. All the way.

No it's a great idea. The Habs should publish their draft list before the draft every year to save emotional immature fans from being upset and lashing out.

The only problem is that it will then put the Habs at a strategic disadvantage to acquire the best talent, which will also upset those same immature fans. So then the little old lady will have to swallow a spider. But eventually she will catch the fly, I'm sure of it.

 

[dinodebino]

I'm not sure super geeky communities like HF are big enough for professional franchises and their personnel to know their general feelings or reactions about the draft. The vast majority of hockey fans don't follow it nor care about prospects in general.

So yeah, they could have seen it come, but I think their surprised reaction to the blowback are genuine. They know fans can be crazy but they can't never know for what all the time. In their mind, the Michkov case as a potential pick could have been settle days or weeks before for whatever reason, and they could have not know there were still online debates about it.

I’m super geekie comms wise. That’s what I used to do. And they did not help to prep up the room.

As a comms person, everything needs to be seen as the worst to come. I think they did not prep up as if it could happen. Paul Wilson had to weather the Mailloux storm. And Paul is a vet in the biz. Again, the hockey team did not help him too much there. And yet, they waited a full week before REACTING. He failed.

Social media is a hellfire. What happened was to be expected. Look at this forum. Everybody and their mother was prepared for the meltdown.

 

[dinodebino]

No it's a great idea. The Habs should publish their draft list before the draft every year to save emotional immature fans from being upset and lashing out.

The only problem is that it will then put the Habs at a strategic disadvantage to acquire the best talent, which will also upset those same immature fans. So then the little old lady will have to swallow a spider. But eventually she will catch the fly, I'm sure of it.

No need to publish. Just have some ‘poteaux’ like Arpon, Renaud, Luc and some social media freaks do the job. Prep the room.

Hockey is not a vacuum in Mtl. It is closely tied to the PR game.

The one that understood that was Donald Beauchamp. Had warts. But had experience reading the room.

Look at most politicians: they announce stuff without doing it. They throw what we call ‘des ballons sondes’. Monday mornings are great for that. A beat reporter announced something. They test the waters and they see the reaction. Positive or oblivious? They go ahead. Unpopular, they chamge their verbatim.

Unions are the same: what day do they try and make noise traditionally? Sundays. Why? Slow news day, they’ll get better coverage. All about social issues is on Sundays.